Oklahoma Initiative Would Make Pot a Legal, Exportable Cash Crop

I have, in my college days, gone to rallies and demonstrations advocating the legalization of mother nature. I've held the view for many years that Mary Jane was better off being decriminalized. I even voted without hesitation for the legalization of medical use in Michigan and was really happy when the people's voice was heard and the law, as flawed as it is currently, was passed.

However, now that we are seeing this domino effect of state laws and the probability of the total legalization of Maria Juanita, I have realized how the earlier propaganda may have been correct in seeing these laws as a slippery slope toward the legalization of harder substances.

I'm not advocating the tired old propaganda of MJ as a gateway drug, other available substances are just as likely to turn a bright young mind into a degenerate druggie, but these medical use laws are certainly turning out to be the gateway of total legalization. Because of this, I can't help but see the similarity to other slippery slope arguments for other controversial laws coming out of the states and entering the national arena. I now also suspect that this is not the "grass" roots movement it seems to be.

originally posted by: Feltrick
Well I think the states are looking at how it's going in the two test bed states before passage of legalization. Most don't want to jump in too quickly and find out it was a mistake.

To me, it just makes sense in a monetary and job creation sense.

a reply to: Mystery

I think you're on to something. Perhaps we're looking towards the massive amount of tax revenue being brought in in Colorado, and of course the political class are going to want a slice of that pie. Those who bring up the logistics of actually shipping any product through states with zero tolerance laws bring up an interesting point.

To give some perspective on how conserative even our alcohol laws here in state: While traveling, I was blown away by the fact you could buy liquor at a convenience store in Missouri.

Here in Oklahoma, you can't buy beer higher than 3.2% alcohol by volume, if its cold. Meaning, we're basically stuck with crappy domestics (Bud, Keystone, etc) at any non-liquor store. Also, wine can not be bought any where but a liquor store. Convenience stores have to stop selling, and bars also close, at 2 a.m. One widespread c-store chain actually stops selling at midnight.

Liquor stores are only open from 10 am through 9 pm Monday through Saturday. So really, heavy drinkers just know to "stock up" on Saturday night.

As a German foreign exchange student back in high school put it (very sarcastically) "Stupid laws, oh its day of Jesus so you can't drink."

Here's a link to an article run in an area newspaper on Friday for anyone interested:Medical MJ petition hits Duncan Note: I've censored the snippet as I'm still not too familiar with what is and is not within the T&C's on the subject around here.

Jennifer Smith, a 36-year-old Duncan nurse who said she is a cancer survivor herself, said her late mother benefitted greatly from [...] as she suffered through Stage 4 lung cancer and chemotherapy.

“The side effects from prescription drugs are worse than the side effects of [...],” she said. “Just a couple little puffs of [...] and she felt like a million bucks.”

Smith’s husband Walter said [...] enabled his mother in-law to regain her appetite. “She was up and moving around. She wasn’t throwing up anymore. How can you say that’s a bad thing?” he said.

a reply to: CloudsTasteMetallic

Wow, that is informative and more draconian than I thought when it comes to alcohol - not being able to buy wine or beer in a grocery - that tops Idaho, even -

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Erongaricuaro
I encourage... offering my own speculation on why it has taken soooooo long to even get this far.

Phillip K Dick. A man after my own heart. What was that Valis character based on himself? Hoss Fat Lover or something? No maybe not. Hoss Fat was an old Count Basie tune. " Blues in Hoss Flat."

OK, I understand now. Just concerned that whatever reservations anyone might have about lifting pot laws should be outweighed by the negative side of the letting it remain as it is, primarily where the authorities increasingly have completely over-stepped - the phoney Drug War being the primary door-opener for our militarized SWAT goons that shoot dogs and destroy property to say "Howdy." No question in my mind that any of this is way past due.

You were just warning us that it appears maybe 'they' would like to get us stoned now for the greasing they got coming for us. Understood. However, just look at the crud they've gotten away with after getting everyone drunk all these decades. MJ just doesn't put a person in that kind of stupor, so they would have to be a bit more cagey.

Maybe they've figured we're already too dumbed-down as it is and decided to let up some. I figure it's just a concession they now realize they finally have to make in order to just keep us as friends - The people have had enough! The Drug War has just caused too much crap in the world, not the drugs themselves. If they want to win that at all they'll have to give up the battle against pot. An alternative to alcohol, which they've virtually poured down our throats for so long now. So long! Bye.

I had hoped ATS would be a good forum for planning out this new paradigm, that it would have the minds to help lay out the groundwork and plan the new strategy. Do we want to see pot become the commercial institution alcohol has been? The structure around our nightlife activity, the centerpiece of any celebration or social activity? Not really, though it would be a safer and less 'emotional' replacement - and the structure would naturally evolve to a more pleasant atmosphere than the bar scene. Oh, imagine the commercial upheaval if that were to happen....

Look for more productive dialog here over how such happenings in Oklahoma, the rest of the US, and the world will change our lives now. It's no longer a question of "if" because this issue has caught fire and profound changes have already occurred, worldwide! What is important now is how and where it is heading. It's a positive direction, for sure. We will gain a lot of new (old) and superior products and will have a new economy with it all as well.

That is what we will be discussing, what to do with our new toys and regained freedom. Yet the subject itself is a taboo and something we don't speak of too loudly for fear of the ban hammer and getting another new Nasty-gram from the SO telling us that talk won't be tolerated any more than smoking in his kitchen and How dare us for lighting up!

ATS may not directly be the CIA/NSA propoganda organ the drive-by conspiracy nuts accuse it of being, but the site must be respectful of the Corporo-governmental instutions that decide what material is PC enough not to censor it from institutional visitorship. Additionally, we must appear as sober and intelligent knowledge seekers so that we can be taken seriously when we discuss little gray men, bigfoot, satanic reptilian royalty, Lee Harvey Oswald, and boxcutter-armed Arab terrorists with global martial law agendas and indestructible passports which are best viewed through and alcohol-induced haze.

It's frustrating and counter-productive to not know where the barrier now lies, but let's constructively sally forth and try to do what needs to be done - collectively put together an ideal and workable scenario for this paradigm before the "experts" get there to mess it up royally. Oklahoma is just the newest player on this scene with some of the most sensible and practical ideas how to handle this inevitability. A friend with weed is a friend indeed approach. Theirs is one of the only to have a "friends clause" that allows for casual sharing, which is the customary way the substance is recreationally used.

Regarding Philip K. Dick's VALIS, the name is Horselover Fat - Philip means horse-lover and Dick is 'fat'or 'thick' in German. That was PKD's alter-ego used in VALIS but I believe it's his middle name that is the most telling - Kindred. As with ATS, NASCAR, MJ, or what-have-you, those who come together around PKD are 'kindred spirits' and gain a special sense from viewing things obliquely rather than solely from the view of how they are packaged and presented to us.

In Colorado you can grow your own plants, 2 per person I think. Use it for recreational use etc. You just can't resell it iirc.

Just putting it out there, OP makes it sounds like some new crazy revolution.

a reply to: Erongaricuaro

great post I would give u 10 stars for it if i could you are the only one that even brought up the freind clause so far and alot of us in Oklahoma have been talking About that little snippet it is truly revolutionary as far as all other laws that have been written and passed in other states.

""sally forth"" Erongaricuaro !!!

originally posted by: Erongaricuaro

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire

Legalization, I think, may be a red herring.



...when the legalization finally comes about it will be hailed as a victory for the people and we all will think that things are getting better, which they aren't. We can all sit around happy while other more important rights are taken from us.

Like the right to get shaken down, locked up, lose your livlihood, to have your door busted in, your dog shot, your family terrorized, and your children taken away for having a few house plants. You could lose your right to be protected from having potential cancer cures, better building materials, superior textile products, and using a much safer and less toxic recreational substance than alcohol. Yeah, let's play it safe and just keep things the way they are.

As a 5 year medical marijuana user here in Michigan I applaud Oklahoma's wisdom.Personally I've given up my morphine and xanaz poisons and use mmj instead. I feel 100% better and will live years longer now.
Whether you are pro or con please realize that we are directly challenging the big pharma monopoly here.Let them keep their pills.

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
I've held the view for many years that Mary Jane was better off being decriminalized. I even voted without hesitation for the legalization of medical use in Michigan... However,... I have realized how the earlier propaganda may have been correct in seeing these laws as a slippery slope toward the legalization of harder substances.

Hold on a moment, a pot victory is enough to regain our footing once again and overcome the perils and booby-traps that have already been planted to entrap us in these avaricious oppressions. Hypocritically sanctimonious pleas to altruism have already been used to take us down the dead-end road we have been travelling. Enough already!

What slope is more treacherous than the ones we've already descended with our phoney and self-serving Drug War that has by now virtually wiped out all of our personal privacies and opened our homes to after-midnight raids where families are terrorized and pets, husbands, and protectors are shot and killed for supplying a $20 bag of pot to a goon-squad stooge posing as a friend and kindred in order to wreak havok on our lives in order to bring a little more revenue into their insidious system of justice?

Do we dare even travel out of town these days with a thousand dollars cash, not for fear we may be robbed by criminal bad-guys who would take our money and steal our cars then leave us hurt and stranded by the side of the road but for fear of being shaken down by the avaricious local constabularies who will confiscate that cash, impound our vehicles, wail on our heads, then hold us hostage behind iron bars until our family or friends come to pay our ransom?

What slopes await that would further reduce our tractions to dignity? A life of alcohol-induced stupor already serves to sink us into those depths of despair and that is virtually poured down our throats already. Whose world is this that would stoop to any depths to deny us of desiring something better?

Admittedly there are a few good arguments why we would wish to take this a bit further. The Big Pharma monster has already proven itself to assert its self-interests above our well-being, and over-turning cannabis oppression will effectivly loosen its avaricious tentacles from the strangle-hold it has us in, but let's take to that battle in good time.

Geez, for now we'd just like to gather around and pass the peace pipe, chat, and have a few giggles without having to worry about the ravaging hoardes busting through our castle gates to beat us senseless with their batons under the lawful authority and auspices of greed and economic corporate expedience. One day, one victory. This one is over-due.

a reply to: Erongaricuaro

You speak finely friend.

Maybe they've figured we're already too dumbed-down as it is and decided to let up some. I figure it's just a concession they now realize they finally have to make in order to just keep us as friends -

Yeah, that amounts to what I was getting at. That they held off for decades until the time arrived when they would need a bone to toss to the plebeians.

Though Wash and Colo are signs along the road to freedom, they seem to me only partial steps. I find Colorado's laws too restrictive but better than Washington's. It seems to me that Washington will not allow personal cultivation which keeps production out of the hands of the people. At least Colorado has some allowance for individual sustainability with out dependence on the state. However both appear to be guiding the process towards state controlled fund raising. We should encourage all future legalization steps to insist on the home cultivation aspect as in Colorado.

We've known for years that should all be free to grow or not grow as they see fit would drop the market value to almost 0. The continued ban on MJ has not only been the excuse for marginalizing many and incarcerating many more but also created the black market upon which so many people have supported themselves over the last decades. A grow your own movement it seems to me would take much of the money and hence violence out of the whole picture.

What will be interesting is how it goes in Oregon, which has a thriving medical MJ program. In Oregon, with the doctor visit and fee to the state of about 400 dollars, people can grow their own or have a licensed grower do it for them. In this system, the street value amoung card holders is nil. What will be interesting is the battle between those in state government who see legalization as a means of taxation doing battle with the established medical MJ system.

And for PKD I first stumbled on him in 74 with Flow My Tears. I then devoured all I could find of his previous work and anxiously awaited each new publication in paperback until his death. His development, evolution(?) over those decades was a joy to behold.

a reply to: Erongaricuaro

I totally agree with you. Many of the reasons you have put forth are the same ones that had me supporting the movement.

Still though, the CT in me can't help but think about this aspect of legalized MJ.

originally posted by: TDawg61
As a 5 year medical marijuana user here in Michigan I applaud Oklahoma's wisdom.Personally I've given up my morphine and xanaz poisons and use mmj instead. I feel 100% better and will live years longer now.

Whether you are pro or con please realize that we are directly challenging the big pharma monopoly here.Let them keep their pills.