Senate Democrats Propose Law to Force Christians to Pay for Abortion Drugs

a reply to: Annee

Did you know there's been a male contraceptive pill for years.

Really news to me.

Wonder where all the guys are at screaming for their 'free' viagra, and such.

a reply to: Battleline

No, I was just wondering. You don't actually fit my question though either because you don't agree with paying for men either. I'd like to hear from those who don't want to pay for women but have no objection to paying for men.

originally posted by: Annee
Let the women take the risk ---- along with ALL the responsibility.

But don't allow her to take advantage of her options, should she have an unwanted pregnancy.

What always seems to be lacking in these discussions is respect for each others point of view.

When people who honestly believe abortion is murder are asked to pay for it, they are literally being asked to pay for murdering a child. I would think most people would be reasonable enough to respect their point of view as long as what they want is legal.

I find it very bizarre that this debate is even in the political realm. Anything involving this should be a personal choice and the key word here is "choice". No person or business owner should be forced to go against their beliefs in a rational world.

Anytime one group of one mindset forces their views on people who do not agree, it is wrong IMO.

I highly doubt the politicians care much about this, it's just a convenient tool to use over and over again to keep us at each others throats and our minds off what they are doing, or what they are not doing.

Neither side is going to change, so the right solution would be to learn to live together and compromise and stop letting the ideologues who want to force everyone to agree with them to divide us.

The hate and venom ending is what the crooks in politics fear the most. They clearly think to keep control they must keep people at each others throats and it works.

originally posted by: Blaine91555

I find it very bizarre that this debate is even in the political realm. Anything involving this should be a personal choice and the key word here is "choice". No person or business owner should be forced to go against their beliefs in a rational world.

Anytime one group of one mindset forces their views on people who do not agree, it is wrong IMO.

So what about the woman's choice????

One group is forcing their views on people who do not agree still. Only it's businesses forcing their views on their female employees now.

a reply to: Blaine91555

When people who honestly believe abortion is murder are asked to pay for it, they are literally being asked to pay for murdering a child

It is murder.

And as such since that 'seed' grows in to a living, breathing,thinking human being.

And as such deserves all the same protections that we humans have.

The mark of any true civilized society would recognize just how barbaric not allowing those seeds to be born is.

And experience the same things we all have.

I find it very bizarre that this debate is even in the political realm. Anything involving this should be a personal choice and the key word here is "choice". No person or business owner should be forced to go against their beliefs in a rational world.

The reason it is a political issue if because politicians threw it out here. And expecting us to subsidized yet another aspect of our existence.

The function of governments of 'man' is not to provide for the materialistic wants of the masses.

Never has been.

Some people like mentioned in the op, being sore losers need to accept that reality.

Because anyone who supports those people are supporting corporate fascism, or what some others call crony capitalism.

The bottom line what people WANT in life. It is their own responsibility to provide for themselves.

Not Government.

If it was up to many here woman wouldn't have been given the vote.
The pill and abortion has empowered woman to take control of their own bodies.
Iam just glad here in the UK anyone can go to the doctors and get what they need without their work being involved.
Oh and the whole corporation = a person is just silly and wrong.

a reply to: mOjOm

So the solution is to force a person who thinks it's murder to pay for a murder? Or would a better sollution be to find another way, that does not require them to pay for it?

This Hobby Lobby case is about a company that has paid for birth control for its employees since long before the ACA popped up. They are fully willing to pay for 16 out of 20 methods. Why is it OK for the politicians to lies when they talk about it, rather than doing their jobs and finding a way to accommodate both sides?

They want both side fighting. It's their entire game plan. The only question is IMO, how many will fall for it and join in the hate?

originally posted by: Blaine91555
When people who honestly believe abortion is murder are asked to pay for it, they are literally being asked to pay for murdering a child.

It's not like the business owner is being asked to reach in his wallet and pay for an abortion. The BUSINESS (the profits of the company) is asked to cover health insurance, regardless what that is. Each person should be able to decide what that means for them.

I would think most people would be reasonable enough to respect their point of view as long as what they want is legal.

Abortion is legal and it's not being respected as a point of view.

No person or business owner should be forced to go against their beliefs in a rational world.

So, if they don't like black people, they should be free to turn them away?

Anytime one group of one mindset forces their views on people who do not agree, it is wrong IMO.

So, you think it's wrong for the business owners to force their religious beliefs on their employees?

a reply to: boymonkey74

Oh and the whole corporation = a person is just silly and wrong.

Well the whole a fetus ISN'T a person is WRONG.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
What always seems to be lacking in these discussions is respect for each others point of view.

When people who honestly believe abortion is murder are asked to pay for it, they are literally being asked to pay for murdering a child. I would think most people would be reasonable enough to respect their point of view as long as what they want is legal.

I find it very bizarre that this debate is even in the political realm. Anything involving this should be a personal choice and the key word here is "choice". No person or business owner should be forced to go against their beliefs in a rational world.

Anytime one group of one mindset forces their views on people who do not agree, it is wrong IMO.

I highly doubt the politicians care much about this, it's just a convenient tool to use over and over again to keep us at each others throats and our minds off what they are doing, or what they are not doing.

Neither side is going to change, so the right solution would be to learn to live together and compromise and stop letting the ideologues who want to force everyone to agree with them to divide us.

The hate and venom ending is what the crooks in politics fear the most. They clearly think to keep control they must keep people at each others throats and it works.

The thing that people do not recognize is that opposition to birth control are trying to engineer a way to take away a woman's choice. It is not the business of the employer, the pastor or the government to meddle in medical decisions that should be between the INDIVIDUAL and their doctor.

It is dumb founding to me, especially when the same group of people feared death panels, which is probably a concept where a few people preemptively make medical decisions for other people. This is essentially letting employers and the government make very personal decisions for women without even weighing the situation.

Finally, this entire argument it is only a trick of accounting anyways. The truth is, ANYONE who buys into private insurance funds abortions and birth control, that is the nature of insurance and the way it is administered. Hobby Lobby gives their money to the insurance companies, these insurance companies use THAT money to pay claims that may very well be abortion or birth control related. So it is all feel good,they get to enforce their will upon their employees, great! God Bless America! But meanwhile their money goes into the same pot that pays for abortions for any other insured who belong to the pool and the general fund of the policy.

It is kind of like abortion is murder, but kill all the Iraqis and Afghanis you want cause the government is keen to do it!

a reply to: neo96

It isn't a person it is a fetus hence the name.

Also it is legal to have an abortion what do you want to do? make it illegal? women will then be pushed into back street abortion clinics and more will suffer from it.
Yes or no illegal or not?.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I'm not big on that argument. They pay the insurance company, who then uses part of that money to pay for what they don't believe in. It's a false argument to then say they are not paying for it, but not surprising coming from Parties who want us fighting.

What exactly is wrong with finding an accommodation that satisfies both sides? You see any politicians even suggesting that?

Hard to take seriously a source that doesnt even know the different beteen an abortion pill and RU486.

Seriously, what kind of "journalism" is this? Blatant lies.....

This is a political ploy by Senate progressives.

They know that they are going to lose big, so they are playing this up for the drama.

It won't go anywhere because the House would never okay anything like this.

Funny enough RFRA was passed bipartisanly, in 1993 (Clinton)

But that's the difference between democrats and progressives.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
If it was up to many here woman wouldn't have been given the vote.
The pill and abortion has empowered woman to take control of their own bodies.
Iam just glad here in the UK anyone can go to the doctors and get what they need without their work being involved.
Oh and the whole corporation = a person is just silly and wrong.

Welcome to America!

Murder is wrong, save the fetuses! But, kill the Iraqis and execute the prisoners post haste!

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Annee

I have heard of that actually but didn't realize they actually had it for sale yet. That's crazy, I would totally take it!!!

I can't believe that men would actually be so stupid to refuse it and let women take all the responsibility!! If it was available I would take it in a heartbeat.

I read a few years ago "they" were going to try again to market it.

But, never saw a follow up.

Here's some info -- could be a good thread on its own -- male contraceptives: www.newmalecontraception.org...

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It's not like the business owner is being asked to reach in his wallet and pay for an abortion.

Yeah they are.

Hell on top of a business fixed costs, then their operating costs.

Then having to shell out for workmans comp INSURANCE.

Then having to shell out for employees unemployment INSURANCE.

Then having to shell out half of their employees social security contributions.

Then having to shell out half of their medicare contributions.

Then keep up with inflation.

Then keep paying the light bills, the real estate fees. The bank loans.

And everything ELSE it takes to keep their doors open.

Really is DUMBFOUNDING that some think every single dolllar doesn't seem to matter for employers.

I hate to break it to people but money doesn't grow on trees.

The employers are the ones TAKING ALL THE RISK.

All so someone can sue them in to supplying one more thing ON TOP of an asinine list of things.

And then that wasn't even counting holiday pay or any other 'benefit'.

Talk about GREEDY.

Some people need to learn people they don't get to have their cake and eat it too.

a reply to: spurgeonatorsrevenge

That kind of makes my point here. No willingness to compromise and find a solution that satisfies both sides. It's my way or the highway.

That the ACA was poorly written is a fact evidenced by all the changes. It was written by people of one ideology, completely ignoring the wants of everyone else, to force it on them. People should be talking about that and mad about that. Next time it may be the other side doing the same, with same result; divide us to control us.

We are so easily drawn into this crap, including me, that we should wonder why we are so willing to let ourselves be controlled so easily.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It's not like the business owner is being asked to reach in his wallet and pay for an abortion.

Yeah they are.

Hell on top of a business fixed costs, then their operating costs.

Then having to shell out for workmans comp INSURANCE.

Then having to shell out for employees unemployment INSURANCE.

Then having to shell out half of their employees social security contributions.

Then having to shell out half of their medicare contributions.

Then keep up with inflation.

Then keep paying the light bills, the real estate fees. The bank loans.

And everything ELSE it takes to keep their doors open.

Really is DUMBFOUNDING that some think every single dolllar doesn't seem to matter for employers.

I hate to break it to people but money doesn't grow on trees.

The employers are the ones TAKING ALL THE RISK.

All so someone can sue them in to supplying one more thing ONTOP of an asinine list of things.

And then that wasn't even counting holiday or any other 'benefit'.

Take about GREEDY.

Some people need to learn people don't get to have their cake and eat it too.

What is the point of cake then in your analogy? Is cake just for looks?

What you fail to realize is that anytime you buy an insurance policy you are funding the distribution of birth control and the abortive procedure itself.

When Hobby Lobby puts in $3.5 million into the pool for insurance their money goes into a general fund that pays for... you guessed it, abortion and birth control. Although they will be paying for women who they do not know, does not change the fact one bit that their money is ultimately distributed to pay for these kinds of things. It is kind of like a kid who puts his hands in front of their eyes and reckons that nobody can see them, simply because they cannot see. So it may feel good, but it is such a hollow feeling in this case.