What if your city was a prison, would you fight back

I only read the first page, and I see that it only talks about middle east, but I live in crook county just outside Chicago, and based on the title of this thread I thought I'd throw this out there, I've lived here all my life and this area feels like a prison. A couple times I've tried to save up enough money to move to somewhere else, so that I can live a better quality of life and every time I get a little money saved up something happens to crush whatever I had saved up to try to go somewhere else. I've been trying for a long time to escape this particular prison, I am and have been sick and tired for a very long time of the crime and never ending dimensions of corruption that exists here in crook county. There are so many regular shootings around here that I feel that living here is as bad or worse than in the middle east. So to answer the question posed in the title of the thread, if the city where I lived were a prison would I fight to get out of it? The answer is yes I would fight to get out of it to go live somewhere else, but the most disappointing thing that I've learned from it is that honest hard working people who do things legally, don't seem to be able to succeed in this particular endeavor.

originally posted by: roth1
Thought it was good to hear the news today that Palestine is trying to hit a nuclear plant in Israel now. Hope they succeed. All the peaceful Jews should leave that terrorist nation while they still have time.

Are you seriously promoting the bombing of a nuclear power plant? That could cause a meltdown. I suggest you look up the aftermath of Chernobyl. A lot people died, the area around it is virtually uninhabitable, and there was moderate contamination all over Europe.
rt.com...

Israel bombarded by Hamas as rockets target nuclear reactor
July 10, 2014

Hamas terrorists launched three powerful rockets at an Israeli nuclear power plant on Wednesday — a terrifying escalation of hostilities in the increasingly violent conflict.

nypost.com...

i don't get this prison thing.

the palestinians can't go anywhere?

don't they have malls and beaches and seaside cafe's?

do they have lockdowns and lights out at 10?

originally posted by: tsingtao
i don't get this prison thing.

the palestinians can't go anywhere?

don't they have malls and beaches and seaside cafe's?

do they have lockdowns and lights out at 10?

if they had all of that and were surrounded by a WALL, real wall, how would you call it?

originally posted by: tsingtao
i don't get this prison thing.

the palestinians can't go anywhere?

don't they have malls and beaches and seaside cafe's?

do they have lockdowns and lights out at 10?

Of course they have malls and beaches and cafe's - They even had a water park but some Islamic nutters burnt it down!
en.wikipedia.org...

/kbbm6kg

They also have 5 star restaurants and luxury hotels...

LINK

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: tsingtao
i don't get this prison thing.

the palestinians can't go anywhere?

don't they have malls and beaches and seaside cafe's?

do they have lockdowns and lights out at 10?

if they had all of that and were surrounded by a WALL, real wall, how would you call it?

A different country...

originally posted by: CommandoJoe

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: tsingtao
i don't get this prison thing.

the palestinians can't go anywhere?

don't they have malls and beaches and seaside cafe's?

do they have lockdowns and lights out at 10?

if they had all of that and were surrounded by a WALL, real wall, how would you call it?

A different country...

so why is Israel building settlements in a "different country"?

makes no sense; and since when "different countries" are being surrounded by walls and wired fence?

East Germany and west Germany never had these problems. Islam is the problem.

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: CommandoJoe

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: tsingtao
i don't get this prison thing.

the palestinians can't go anywhere?

don't they have malls and beaches and seaside cafe's?

do they have lockdowns and lights out at 10?

if they had all of that and were surrounded by a WALL, real wall, how would you call it?

A different country...

so why is Israel building settlements in a "different country"?

makes no sense; and since when "different countries" are being surrounded by walls and wired fence?

They are not building settlements in Gaza - all Israeli settlers were forcibly removed by the IDF almost 10 years ago. Have you never seen fences and walls separating countries before? There is no wall or fence facing the sea, and the southern wall/fence/border is controlled by Egypt. Where's the anit-Egypt threads condemning their part in maintaining this Gaza "prison". Something I've asked so many times here but everyone seems to ignore it... Maybe I should start a thread to highlight the issue and see if anyone cares to reply then.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

you didn't address my question:

if (according to you) it is a "different country" than why is Israel building settlements in a "different country"?

a reply to: cody599

Thank you.

I apologize as well.

I think most people would fight back under the conditions that they find themselves. The problem lies in their methods, which tend to be rather indiscriminate, and in the minds of the Israeli government that built the wall, most certainly justifies the reason why they built the wall to begin with: to provide for the safety and security of their citizens. Its nothing but a circular pattern of violence where each sees justification for their own acts in the actions of the other.

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: CommandoJoe

you didn't address my question:

if (according to you) it is a "different country" than why is Israel building settlements in a "different country"?

I was speaking in the metaphorical sense about Gaza as it is obviously not another country, and at that time we were discussing Gaza and various luxuries contained within, but then you want to change the topic and go to the West Bank... These are 2 very separate and distinct areas

I personally don't think they should be building any new settlements in the West Bank. I know that some of the existing settlements are not even authorized by the Israeli government. Quite a few are nothing more than just some shacks clustered together. Some new constructions were authorized by Israel in retaliation for Palestinians seeking to be recognized as a non-member state by the UN - I don't agree with that retaliation either.

Now if you could wave a magic wand and remove all Israeli settlers from the West Bank and put them into Israel, there is more than enough land here. The problem is that it's not that simple. The ones in shacks are easy to kick out, but some places are full fledged towns of 30k-60k people - not so easy to relocate.

The other part of the problem, is that if you remove all Israeli's (civilian and military) from the West Bank and give them complete autonomy in that area, you will likely have the same thing happen like with Gaza after Israel pulled out. Extremists seized control and started launching rockets into Israel on a massive scale. This is Israel's major fear and stumbling point to completely pulling out of the West Bank. So then Israel would be getting hit from both directions... Then would it still not be ok for Israel to defend itself? Should they still show restraint?

Currently Israel can somewhat stem the flow of weapons into the West Bank and Gaza because they control most of the access/borders. If they totally disengaged and Gaza/West Bank became their own actual country(s) they would be sure to obtain much more powerful weapons and they wouldn't hesitate to use them against Israel.

No doubt there are extremists on both sides. The difference is that Israel stops their extremists from getting out of hand and indiscriminately killing Palestinian civilians. While the leadership in Gaza ARE the extremists and go out of their way to try and kill Israeli civilians. Many Israeli's don't much care for the Ultra Orthodox Jews either. I wouldn't consider all of them to be extremists, but most of the Israeli extremists are going to be from that group and most of the settlers are as well. On a positive note, in the recent elections a lot of the government positions held by Orthodox folks were lost to more moderate people...


There really is no simple solution. As long as Hamas and others seek to kill as many Jews as possible, there will be no peace here. If Israel had the same philosophy, the Palestinians would have long since been wiped out...

If the Palestinian people could suppress their extremists, there might be a chance they could all live in peace. Something of note: 20%+ of the Israeli population (Just Israel, not Gaza or WB) is Arab (Many of which identify themselves as Palestinian), including Muslims, and they hold Israeli citizenship. They are able to live peacefully within Israel, and I bet their standard of living here is much better than it would be in any of the neighboring Arab countries... They could leave Israel if they wanted to, but they don't. Something to think about...

I know many Palestinians want peace, the extremists are the problem. Before the extremists took over, there was relative peace, the borders were more open, and many Palestinians worked in Israel and had well paying jobs... Then they started blowing up buses, cafes, and nightclubs, then it all changed and here we are. Maybe Palestinians should look at their situation now vs 20-30 years ago and ask how well it worked out for them to allow extremists into power.

Of course I would fight back and the Palestinians should fight back. They are being oppressed. If you really look into the situation there...the Palestinians are:

1. Treated like second class citizens. Even with proper documentation and doing everything they have to under Israeli law, they don't have the same rights as Israeli citizens. They don't have the same legal challenges and rights to defend themselves or bring things to a court of law.
2. Denied basic rights such as free movement, humanitarian aid, food, medical supplies and proper infrastructure.
3. denied statehood. They are an actual people. They deserve their own land to govern and live as they will.
4. Living under an apartheid state where they are treated like animals and actually most people treat animals better than the Israeli's treat the palestinian people.

Solution?

Really simple. Treat the Palestinians like real people. I don't know of a single American that would stand to be treated like the Palestinians. We would all fight against that oppression with all of our might.

Support BDS-I hate pink Floyd. Worst Music I ever heard in my entire life, but...Roger Waters is right on this.

originally posted by: neo96
What if your city was a prison, would you fight back

Lets ask the native americans that still live on reservations in this country.

Guess a lot of people would support them fighting back by this thread.

Wouldnt hold it against them....

originally posted by: cody599
a reply to: demus

LMAO

How photo-shopped is that ? I'm one of the avatar guys here
I count at least 8 layers there

Seriously dude. You really believe that ?


Cody

You clearly don't know as much as you think if you think the images above and below have been created in Photoshop.

There's no obvious signs of manipulation; you're circling stuff at random.

Lol.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

so it is not another country?

it is not a country or it is part of Israel in your opinion?

basically what you're saying is: "we need to keep them down and weak if we don't want them to grow stronger and possibly be able to defend."

I understand that from military strategic point of view but to claim that somehow Palestinians are ruled by extremists while Israel is not defies logic and facts.

number of civilian casualties on Palestinian side is multiple times bigger for any time frame but for you it is somehow OK because they were killed in a "military operation" and not in a "terrorist attack".

I must admit however that wording DOES make a difference and fits well into overall propaganda.

(this is not to say that there are no "extremists" in Palestine)

...the disengagement has been criticized by parts of the Israeli lefThe disengagement also did not address wider issues of occupation. Israel retained control over Gaza’s borders, airspace, coastline, infrastructure, power, import-exports, etc.

originally posted by: Frijj

originally posted by: cody599
a reply to: demus

LMAO

How photo-shopped is that ? I'm one of the avatar guys here
I count at least 8 layers there

Seriously dude. You really believe that ?


Cody

You clearly don't know as much as you think if you think the images above and below have been created in Photoshop.

There's no obvious signs of manipulation; you're circling stuff at random.

Lol.

If you'd bothered reading the whole thread you'd have seen that I have already apologised for that little gaff.
I was under the influence and stressed out about my kids being rocketed.

There's plenty of avatars around here made by me

LOL

Cody

a reply to: cody599

Israel did launch a white phosphorous on palatines.

Photos of Israeli White Phosphorus attacks on UN schools in Gaza The following are photos of an Israeli white phosphorus attack in a UNRWA school in Beit Lahia in Gaza. White phosphorus is illegal to use in civilian areas, and its use by Israel constitutes a war crime.

lots of photos here...

friendsofpalestine.wordpress.com...


nb.. read rest of thread now...It was a blunder..


kind regards

purp..