Say goodbye to Mecca (Ka'ba)......ISIS threat

a reply to: FlyersFan

5:97 - Allah has made the Ka‘bah, the Sacred House, standing for the people and [has sanctified] the sacred months and the sacrificial animals and the garlands [by which they are identified]. That is so you may know that Allah knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and that Allah is Knowing of all things.

a reply to: demus
It's a 'church' system. The equivalent is there. Right down to the 'churches' (mosques) and the idols (Kaaba, Meteorite and Qu'ran).

No qu'ran verse changes the fact that it's a church system. It's there.

originally posted by: butcherguy
ISIS is looking like the army of a Muslim version of the Antichrist.

I wish I knew what (or who) is behind it all.

The World Bank
CIA
Mossad
Tptb
Big Oil
Etc

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: demus
It's a 'church' system. The equivalent is there. Right down to the 'churches' (mosques) and the idols (Kaaba, Meteorite and Qu'ran).

No qu'ran verse changes the fact that it's a church system. It's there.

your lack of knowledge on Islam and teachings of Islam as well your lack of knowledge about other religions is extreme.

at the same time you seems to be obsessed with Islam as if you were looking for the truth.?

According to tradition the Kaaba was built by Ibrahim (Abraham). It is stated in the Qur'an that this was the first house that was built for humanity to worship Allah (God).

a reply to: demus

Yet you still want to claim there are no systems, priests, or leaders in Islam. Care to describe what an Imam is?

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: demus

Yet you still want to claim there are no systems, priests, or leaders in Islam. Care to describe what an Imam is?

there are no priests, there is no "church system" as in Christianity, of course there are "leaders".

Imams may lead Islamic worship services, serve as community leaders, and provide religious guidance.

this is quote from user Yahoo user Sundas Yasmin:

Priests aren't allowed to get married whereas an Imam is expected to live life as a regular person. Further, because there's no hierarchy in Islam, one doesn't have to confess sins to an Imam like a Christian has to do to a priest. In Islam, forgiveness for a sin can only be granted by God ONLY, so Muslims have a direct relationship with the creator.

Let them blow each other up. I'm sick of hearing about it to the exclusion of the rest of the world.

I personally believe there are two explanations to the threats put forward by ISIS:

1. They are medically insane, a new breed of extremist Muslims who are lacking in brain capacity

2. There is a serious and definite (negative) force driving or motivating this movement from behind the scenes.

This force may be acting to either promote further instability (by stirring negative emotions among the local islamic population) or possibly pave the way for some fresh new invasion or government planned agenda for some mutual interest (such as further destabilizing middle east regimes who don't play well).

..or even for monetary benefit - where the USA can come back in and shut them down whilst stealing some more oil and playing the saviors for all the Muslims who were shaking in their pants worrying that their precious holy site was on the brink of annihilation.

Now I am inclined to believe the latter explanation - as the whole premise put forth by ISIS is quite laughable to say the least.

I mean who in their right mind can tell the vast majority of a religious movement (2 Billion+ followers )that they and their previous generations have been doing something completely against their faith for the past 1000 years and now ISIS will end this blasphemy by putting a stop to it ..

...and possibly kill 2 million worshipers in the process with some ISIS super suicide jihadist ninja.

There's definitely something wrong with their brains - diminished capacity to understand the folly of their beliefs. They are weak-minded.

a reply to: demus
Stop deflecting, stop attempting to insult posters.
Address the topic. I'm not it.
You claimed that Islam isn't like the Christian churches. I showed you wrong.

My knowledge level is just fine. No fictional pretty verses from the Quran can change the fact that Islam has the same trappings as 'churches'. The Kaaba was built by pagan man. The meteor was worshipped by the pagans. The circumambulation comes from pagan practices. The running between the hills comes from the pagans. The bowing 7 times a day toward a direction comes from the Zoroastrians. If the Muslims aren't worshipping the meteor and aren't idolizing the Qu'ran, then they should have no problem destroying them. Right?

So you can take back your 'news flash' from the previous page.
You are wrong.
If you think you aren't ... then present FACTS that prove your point.
HInt - deflective insults aren't facts. They are just nonsense.

originally posted by: demus
Imams may lead Islamic worship services, serve as community leaders, and provide religious guidance.

Geee .. just like a Christian minister. And it's the same kind of thing priests do. Imams, Ayatollahs, Ministers and Priests have individualized religious rules to follow according to their beliefs, but their basic core purpose is the same.

originally posted by: demus
originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: demus


there are no priests, there is no "church system" as in Christianity, of course there are "leaders".

It's called drawing parallels.

Church = Mosque
Priest/Pastor = Imam
Bible = Quaran

So on and so forth.

Imams may lead Islamic worship services, serve as community leaders, and provide religious guidance.

Priests or Pastors lead worship services, are community leaders, and provide religious guidance. See the parallels?

Priests aren't allowed to get married whereas an Imam is expected to live life as a regular person. Further, because there's no hierarchy in Islam, one doesn't have to confess sins to an Imam like a Christian has to do to a priest. In Islam, forgiveness for a sin can only be granted by God ONLY, so Muslims have a direct relationship with the creator.

I'm no expert on priests, but If I'm not mistaken catholic priests aren't to be married if they follow a certain path or calling, or whatever it is. Someone feel free to correct me as I am not at all knowledgable on that aspect. However Pastors can be married, have intercourse, 'live life as a regular person' in your own words.


Once again, there's not much of a difference and there are systems and direct comparisons between the two religions.

a reply to: FlyersFan

[2:158] The knolls of Safa and Marwah are among the rites decreed by GOD. Anyone who observes Hajj or `Umrah commits no error by traversing the distance between them. If one volunteers more righteous works, then GOD is Appreciative, Omniscient.


[2:197] Hajj shall be observed in the specified months.* Whoever sets out to observe Hajj shall refrain from sexual intercourse, misconduct, and arguments throughout Hajj. Whatever good you do, GOD is fully aware thereof. As you prepare your provisions for the journey, the best provision is righteousness. You shall observe Me, O you who possess intelligence.

[22:26-27] We appointed Abraham to establish the Shrine: "You shall not idolize any other god beside Me, and purify My shrine for those who visit it, those who live near it, and those who bow and prostrate. "And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage.* They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted (means of transportation). They will come from the farthest locations."

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: Stormdancer777

Muslims don't worship that Black Stone..

People didn't worship the tombs and mosques that have been destroyed either. If we are hearing the truth, I don't think it matters to ISIS. They are the type that kills over cartoons. They have their mind made up that your god wants them to do it.

a reply to: demus

I have absolutely no idea why you are spewing Qu'ran quotes. You do realize Muhammad got all his qu'ran stuff from other religions and not from God, right? God didn't tell Muhammad to run between the hills ... Muhammad got that from the pagans who were doing it And then he put that in his Qu'ran and claimed it came from God. When in fact he just got the idea from the pagans who were already doing it.

- The Kaaba was built by pagan man NOT Abraham. He was nowhere near mecca.
- The meteorite was worshipped by the pagans before the Muslims adored it.
- The circumambulation comes from pagan practices.
- The running between the hills comes from the pagans.
- The bowing 7 times a day toward a direction comes from the Zoroastrians.

You failed to address the facts.
- The Mosque is the muslim equivalent of a church.
- The Imam is the muslim equivalent of minister or priest.
- The Qu'ran is the muslim equivalent of a christian bible

If the Muslims aren't worshipping the meteorite and aren't idolizing the Qu'ran, then they should have no problem destroying them. Right?

a reply to: FlyersFan

hint - we're talking Islam, from where should I quote you, Shakespeare?

I said:

...there is no "church system" in Islam, no priests, no "saints", no idols.

no "church system", no priests meaning -

In Islam there is no church hierarchy no priests, ministers, vicars, deans, or popes. When a Muslim prays he prays directly to God not through any intermediary. When he serves God he is not serving an institution but God alone.

yes, there are Mosques - places of worship - no idols of any kind there
yes, there are Imams but their function and role in Islam is not same as the role of Priests
yes, there is a Quran

you said:

If the Muslims aren't worshipping the meteorite and aren't idolizing the Qu'ran, then they should have no problem destroying them.

1. your question is rather offensive, anyway - I already gave you quotes from Qur'an that explains Kaaba and Hajj.
I don't know why would you like to see Qur'an destroyed?

2. your questions is rather illogical as well - if idols and worshiping of the idols is not allowed and Muslims do not worship "the meteorite" or Qur'an than there is no point in destroying them right?

you see the fallacy here?

originally posted by: demus
hint - we're talking Islam, from where should I quote you, Shakespeare?

hint - you should post something that talks to what the discussion is about. Your quotes are easily explained away with simple historical facts. Abraham wasn't ever in Mecca and he didn't build the kaaba. God didn't tell anyone to 'run between the hills'. The Pagans did both of those things though. That is where Muhammad came up with that stuff to write in the Qu'ran ... from the Pagans.

I said: ...there is no "church system" in Islam, no priests, no "saints", no idols.

Yes. That's what you said. But we have shown that Islam has it's equivalent.

In Islam there is no church hierarchy no priests, ministers, vicars, deans, or popes. When a Muslim prays he prays directly to God not through any intermediary. When he serves God he is not serving an institution but God alone.

Christians pray directly to God. They serve God alone within a structure. And yes there is organization in the Muslim structure.

I already gave you quotes from Qur'an that explains Kaaba and Hajj.

And I told you the TRUTH of where those quotes came from. They came from the pagans. God didn't tell Muhammad to go run between the hills or to circumambulate a pagan cube building. The pagans did it and that's where Muhammad got the idea to do it from.

if idols and worshiping of the idols is not allowed and Muslims do not worship "the meteorite" or Qur'an than there is no point in destroying them right?

IF Muslims don't idolize the meteorite or the Qu'ran, then they wouldn't be upset if those things suddenly were destroyed. It wouldn't matter. So the proof that there is no idolotry in Islam would be for a Muslim to take the qu'ran and burn it. Destroy it. It should be no big deal, right? Burn it in front of other muslims to show that you don't see the Qu'ran as an idol. It's just a book that can easily be bought in a store. If you are unable to do that, then you are idolizing it. If the muslims threaten you with death because you burn a stupid book, then they are idolizing that book and making it more important than a human life. THAT is the point of the question. Prove that you don't idolize the qu'ran. Prove that you don't idolize a meteorite. Get it?

ISIS is a bunch of nutters ... but they have an interesting point. If Islam doesn't have idols, then they shouldn't care at all about the Kaaba or the meteorite.

a reply to: FlyersFan

the topic is about destroying Kaaba.

Kaaba is Qibla for Muslims.

Muslims believe Qur'an to be revelation from God.

of course it makes sense to quote from Qur'an - it explains the way Muslims view Kaaba and Mecca, Hajj and other things mentioned in this topic.

if you don't believe it, fine; I really don't understand why are you so hellbent on somehow proving everything about Islam wrong?

seems you're trying to force your views on others - not very tolerant indeed.

I see in the end of your post you tend to understand, support and agree with ISIS which just prove that extremists from any side (religious or irreligious) share much in common.

brother, nobody have to prove anything to you but if you think you have evidence that could change the history, if you think and you are sure about it why don't you make a scientific work about it?

really, if you're so sure and you have such strong evidence it shouldn't be a problem - it might earn you fame and money.

long story short - Muslims respect Kaaba as oldest place of worship and Qur'an as their Holy Book...

respect.

if you don't respect it fine but don't force your worldview on anyone, you come out ignorant.

If the Kaaba is so respected why does ISIS want to destroy it?

originally posted by: Restricted
If the Kaaba is so respected why does ISIS want to destroy it?

obviously if they want to destroy it they don't have respect for it.

ISIS is a secret services operation (probably) and even if they weren't they don't represent Islam or Muslims, even the extremists have distanced themselves from ISIS.