Ask yourself this...

originally posted by: jacygirl

originally posted by: Denoli

originally posted by: jacygirl
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Thank you!

Look at ALL the messed up people in this world...just look at them!!
How many of them are messed up because they were mistreated as children?
All of them? Most of them?

Now there are a bunch of (likely) terrified kids crossing the border.
Why exactly? I'm still not sure, even though I'm reading what I can find....

I wonder what would happen if 52,000 American kids crossed over into Canada.
I'd like to think we would help them in any way we could.
I'm only an hour from the border, and I would offer to help.
I KNOW I'm not the only one.

jacygirl

What if it was 52000 Muslim men ?
I think your answer would be different

Me personally?
Nope, wouldn't matter to me.
I help people all the time, and never ask what their religion is first.
To me, people are just people.

jacygirl

Everyone has a big heart until they dump them in your neighborhood. Then your hospitals are clogged, your schools have changed, and with minority hiring, their culture is now running your county. This has happened in a little town in California called compton, and the black population didn't like it. Because they were losing jobs to hispanics. Ironic isn't it?

We need to stop thinking with our hearts and start thinking with our heads.

a reply to: MarlinGrace

Why are we in it half? Why are we responsible for refugees? Why isn't NATO, the U.N. or the W.H.O. helping?

I don't know what their parents would say but I wonder why if the U.S. Govt. can afford to spend thousands on illegal immigrants why are so many American children living in poverty?

originally posted by: minusinfinity
a reply to: MarlinGrace

Why are we in it half? Why are we responsible for refugees? Why isn't NATO, the U.N. or the W.H.O. helping?

I don't know what their parents would say but I wonder why if the U.S. Govt. can afford to spend thousands on illegal immigrants why are so many American children living in poverty?

Great question my friend, we should be taking care of our own first, but in reality who funds the UN? Let me say also they are not refugees or immigrants they are illegals. If we give them refugee status, I can see the outcry for the rest that are here illegally, and only considered immigrants because they are being fast tracked by the administration.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

originally posted by: jacygirl

originally posted by: Denoli

originally posted by: jacygirl
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Thank you!

Look at ALL the messed up people in this world...just look at them!!
How many of them are messed up because they were mistreated as children?
All of them? Most of them?

Now there are a bunch of (likely) terrified kids crossing the border.
Why exactly? I'm still not sure, even though I'm reading what I can find....

I wonder what would happen if 52,000 American kids crossed over into Canada.
I'd like to think we would help them in any way we could.
I'm only an hour from the border, and I would offer to help.
I KNOW I'm not the only one.

jacygirl

What if it was 52000 Muslim men ?
I think your answer would be different

Me personally?
Nope, wouldn't matter to me.
I help people all the time, and never ask what their religion is first.
To me, people are just people.

jacygirl

Everyone has a big heart until they dump them in your neighborhood. Then your hospitals are clogged, your schools have changed, and with minority hiring, their culture is now running your county. This has happened in a little town in California called compton, and the black population didn't like it. Because they were losing jobs to hispanics. Ironic isn't it?

We need to stop thinking with our hearts and start thinking with our heads.

I lived in a larger city (bigger than where I am now) for most of my life, and it was quite a melting pot of ethnicities. Didn't really have any problems with anybody.

I'm not trying to say that Canada is better than any other country, I wouldn't dare....but, we do seem to be quite accepting and not very critical. (My own experiences here, can't speak for everybody.)

A lot of seasonal farm workers from Jamaica and Mexico.
A lot of us Canadians had parents/families from somewhere else. My parents came over from England. My partner's family are Portuguese.
I've had friends that were....assorted religions, assorted countries of origin...also co-workers and classmates.

I have always looked at people as individuals. To me, different isn't wrong...it's just different.

jacygirl

originally posted by: Bassago
a reply to: theantediluvian

I don't care who it is. If they are here illegally round them all up and send them back home. Period.

You're going to have to do better than this if it's the main point of your thread. You can ogle at her on the plane.

Agreed. Follow the law coming in, or we will take you back home.

If one tries to cross borders in other countries, many have punishments like imprisonment or death. They come here (or as of late brought here) and are given places to live, medical care, money and more...they broke the law. I don't care who it is, how pretty they are - break a law, suffer the consequences.

Tax payers are covering the costs of this...that's you and I folks, people who've worked hard and placed trust and resources into the system. Did we do all this just to let our 'law makers' give it away to someone who breaks the law? Ridiculous...

a reply to: BlackboxInquiry

Maybe some laws need to be changed?
Made a little more humane? You know, to help humanity?

Or, why don't you just stone them. Fling a few rocks at those law-defying children...how dare they?

The nerve. Wanting food, education and health care.
Not worthy!! Totally undeserving.

Hmmm.....re-reading your post...something about "people who've placed trust and resources into the system".
How's that working out for the residents of Detroit?

We need change. We need to care about people.
Argh...I need to go outside and scream.

jacygirl

a reply to: FlyersFan

ILLEGAL. Send them all back and make them come in legally. There is a reason we have quotas for entering this country. It's basic economics. We can't handle an overrun. The taxpayers will be broken. The system won't work. The hospitals and schools and jobs .... everything gets messed up.

That's demonstrably false. We do not have quotas to prevent overrun of social welfare programs. Also, despite common misconceptions to the contrary, illegal immigrants do not have access to means-tested social welfare programs (housing/utility assistance, food stamps, etc). The biggest expenses come from education and healthcare.

I'm not prepared to give exact figures on how much federal taxes illegal immigrants actually pay, but there are billions of dollars a year in IRS suspense files that cannot be matched up to workers. Just like everyone else, when illegal immigrants spend money, they're paying sales taxes. If they pay rent, a portion of that is paid into property taxes by the home owner. Only about 1% of the federal budget goes to education but let's look at the rest of the budget:

24% to Social Security - illegal immigrants can't collect Social Security.
22% to Medicare/Medicaid - again illegal immigrants can't collect either of these.

I'm not arguing that there isn't a net deficit, but it's a much more complex picture than you're pretending and your premise relies on greatly exaggerated assumptions.

Two things.

1) The iron curtain enthusiasts need to remember that there are about ten zillion other things that cost america more money than the whole border situation . If the economy was really your issue, you wouldn't be here complaining about immigrants. You would be out taking on the real problems.

2) Just so you know, from the outside, the sheer amount of americans bitching over this is really off-putting for the rest of the world. How helping other humans is causing such a hoohah when your yearly budget for killing other people could solve world hunger several times over is fairely disgusting, and the whole situation says quite a bit about you, as a nation, and as individuals.

a reply to: theantediluvian
I can think of some very real world uses for miss Sophia viagara (spelling...oh well same thing imo).
And as a professional parent raising 6 kids to full maturity and then some, I can say kids are a genuine illness of sorts.
Not only I lost hundreds of thousands of dollars on these investments, my health has gone down.
Either way I'd turn everyone back if not worse.
If you want to come here do it the right way, the legal way.
I have lived within the laws of my land all of my life, those who don't I feel are cheating me and everyone else who did things the right way.

originally posted by: jacygirl

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

originally posted by: jacygirl

originally posted by: Denoli

originally posted by: jacygirl
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Thank you!

Look at ALL the messed up people in this world...just look at them!!
How many of them are messed up because they were mistreated as children?
All of them? Most of them?

Now there are a bunch of (likely) terrified kids crossing the border.
Why exactly? I'm still not sure, even though I'm reading what I can find....

I wonder what would happen if 52,000 American kids crossed over into Canada.
I'd like to think we would help them in any way we could.
I'm only an hour from the border, and I would offer to help.
I KNOW I'm not the only one.

jacygirl

What if it was 52000 Muslim men ?
I think your answer would be different

Me personally?
Nope, wouldn't matter to me.
I help people all the time, and never ask what their religion is first.
To me, people are just people.

jacygirl

Everyone has a big heart until they dump them in your neighborhood. Then your hospitals are clogged, your schools have changed, and with minority hiring, their culture is now running your county. This has happened in a little town in California called compton, and the black population didn't like it. Because they were losing jobs to hispanics. Ironic isn't it?

We need to stop thinking with our hearts and start thinking with our heads.

I lived in a larger city (bigger than where I am now) for most of my life, and it was quite a melting pot of ethnicities. Didn't really have any problems with anybody.

I'm not trying to say that Canada is better than any other country, I wouldn't dare....but, we do seem to be quite accepting and not very critical. (My own experiences here, can't speak for everybody.)

A lot of seasonal farm workers from Jamaica and Mexico.
A lot of us Canadians had parents/families from somewhere else. My parents came over from England. My partner's family are Portuguese.
I've had friends that were....assorted religions, assorted countries of origin...also co-workers and classmates.

I have always looked at people as individuals. To me, different isn't wrong...it's just different.

jacygirl

You obviously have a very kind heart and a great outlook on life something disappearing in the US as we speak. To give you an idea when I moved out of California 3 yrs ago, police departments need 52 different kinds of language interpreters. For blocks in a city called Garden Grove every business sign is written in Vietnamese. In most cities they celebrate Cinco De Mayo on May 5th by the spanish population, there is no integration, no melting pot. You just move here and continue with your own culture.

What this does is creates division, they are afforded special loans, government programs, subsidies etc. I don't blame them the government made it much easier for them, anyone would have accepted the help. So you have citizens who were born and raised here wondering why immigrants get all the help and they don't. The city I sight, Compton, was one where blacks fought for equal opportunity when I was young to have good city jobs, and some kind of control over their destiny and at that time they had what was called white flight. The white citizens moved farther east in the state to maintain the status they earned and I am sure some were prejudiced as well. But the point, now it is the blacks turn and they are being pushed out by hispanics, but they don't seem to integrate, there is no melt. The pot has been stirred and a mess is being created because the flow of hispanics is too high all at once to allow for a smooth integration of a culture into ours.

This example is much more than this tiny part, and much more complicated but you can see and imagine the difficulties of large masses of people with a different language and culture being placed in a city. I can't imagine what's going on in Minnesota.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
That's demonstrably false.

No ... sorry ... I'm correct. The reason we have immigration quotas is so that our country can properly absorb the new people and not get overwhelmed. The numbers aren't arbitrary. There is a purpose to the imposed numbers.

originally posted by: ObservingYou

originally posted by: Bassago
a reply to: theantediluvian

I don't care who it is. If they are here illegally round them all up and send them back home. Period.

You're going to have to do better than this if it's the main point of your thread. You can ogle at her on the plane.

Well done for demonstrating why the Human race is taking two steps back for everu step forward.

Why is wrong to demand that anyone who wishes to come into our country show some respect and follow the laws?

Also for every illegal that enters it's a slap in the face for everyone who followed our laws to become part of our nation.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
This isn't really a rant but more of a thought experiment.

Imagine that instead of 52,000 unaccompanied children crossing the border, it was 52,000 Sofia Vergaras. How many people would still say ridiculous stuff like, "Oh, then why don't you open up your home to these illegals!?"

Why? Because beautiful women are seen as an asset regardless of their actual value to society. Other people's children? Disease vectors.

"Beautiful women are seen as an asset"? Hm? Don't know about that bro? Give me an ugly gal anytime, much lower maintenance. In all seriousness, this was a manufactured tragedy, heinous, diabolical...but still can't hold a candle to Cheney's sh$t Humanity is insane.

Why is no one asking the question why thousands of people from one of your neighbouring countries are suddenly clamouring to get in?

The US govt invited them but are very good at giving the impression that they don't know what's happening or why they are coming but that they are doing their best to stop it.

But the real villains are big businesses who have always lobbied western governments to relax immigration controls and pack as many third world people in as possible, and thereby maximise profit margins.

Bankers messing up the world as usual.

SNAFU.

originally posted by: CJCrawley
Why is no one asking the question why thousands of people from one of your neighbouring countries are suddenly clamouring to get in?

The US govt invited them but are very good at giving the impression that they don't know what's happening or why they are coming but that they are doing their best to stop it.

But the real villains are big businesses who have always lobbied western governments to relax immigration controls and pack as many third world people in as possible, and thereby maximise profit margins.

Bankers messing up the world as usual.

SNAFU.

I wouldn't quite say neighboring country, the mileage from the originating country is about the same as Spain to Poland.

It's not big business thats uses illegals it's small business, and citizens. ie. laborers, housekeepers, landscapers, and concrete work, car washing, detailing, anything that utilizes labor etc.

Yes I consider the US government offering invitations, with incentives from free medical to free food, tax breaks, and checks. There is the real blame, I would come to there is no risk involved.

The banks have nothing to do with it unless you consider a construction loan for a project and illegal labor to build it.

a reply to: MarlinGrace

Thanks for commenting.

It's not big business thats uses illegals it's small business, and citizens. ie. laborers, housekeepers, landscapers, and concrete work, car washing, detailing, anything that utilizes labor etc.

I would imagine all businesses prosper; big businesses have more clout is all.

My own govt is constantly influenced by business lobby groups like the CBI and BCC who have a monotonous pro-immigrationist agenda.

As to legal/illegal immigrants...they're just immigrants to you and me. Their legal status is decided by the govt which doesn't seem to be too fussed at sticking to the letter of the law.

My country has so many illegal immigrants now that the govt seems to have given up on identifying them; if it was ever serious about doing so.

Yes I consider the US government offering invitations

It must be the case - what else could possibly account for the relatively recent one-way flow of human traffic?

And it's a world-wide phenomenon; Europe is besieged with relentless swarms of Africans, many dying in the Med on makeshift rafts in their desperation to get here...what's the buzz? Why so many? Why now?

Why am I now working mainly with African co-workers when there are any number of my own citizens in the immediate neighbourhood willing and able to fill those positions?

They've been invited, it's all been carefully thought-out and executed...all about the same time, like some grand master plan.

originally posted by: CJCrawley
a reply to: MarlinGrace

Thanks for commenting.

It's a pleasure intelligent conversation is always appreciated.

They've been invited, it's all been carefully thought-out and executed...all about the same time, like some grand master plan.

Now thats a scary thought that would mean that TPTB ultimate plan would be to dilute cultures and populations over the next century to produce something in the way of a singular working culture. Now theres a grand experiment destined to failure.

a reply to: jacygirl


Who said anything violent? Returning them to where they lived prior to breaking the law in coming here is humane.

Don't know where you got anything violent in my post...maybe there's a few double-spaces in between words...I'll check that next time. lol

I don't have any issue with people who want to immigrate LEGALLY. Follow the rules, period. I don't care what country one originates, what age, sex, race, or any other label (other than criminal) you want to slap on them, just do it LEGALLY. The laws are the laws.

Do the immigration laws need to be changed to make legal entry less expensive, and streamlined? YES. Do we need to reward people who break the laws? No.

Think about it this way:

If you went across the border and picked up a few people, and attempted to bring them here, ILLEGALLY - do you think they'd give you or I a reward for doing that? Sure, in the form of legal trouble and more than likely jail or prison time, along with a criminal record. Why? FOR BREAKING THE LAW. Yet they are just allowing them to come here, even busing and flying them in here and demanding that they be given resources, instead of taken back home.

There is a fine line between caring for others and blind idiocy, and what the Gov't is doing now with immigration is definitely the latter. Where do you think all the resources are coming from to pay for all the things they are being given short term? Long term? Taxes...and who pays taxes? Right, the tax payers. Unless you don't pay taxes, you too are volunteering other peoples resources to people who break the law.

Think taking them home fed and clothed is harsh? Try going into Mexico illegally, you'll end up in jail or worse. Afghanistan? Try it, they'll shoot you on site. No clothes, food or anything else, just a .25 cent bullet to the head. Many other countries have PUNISHMENTS for breaking their immigration laws...and you really think for one second that feeding them, clothing them and taking them home is harsh? I wonder what your basis for comparison is?

Go ahead and scream, we all need to from time to time. I just did...lol

originally posted by: jacygirl
[
jacygirl

Absolutely agree...to those who say round up the illegals and send them back. Can we go ahead and reverse Manifest Destiny as well? just curious. That whole take over the country thing is a little odd to me...you know since we ruined homes too

yes I know this was ages ago, Murica = #1!

I am all about a global society and the dissolution of borders

scary isn't it?