It's heating up in Israel even more..4 million Israelis in bomb shelters, Israel planning Response

It is too bad that the Israelis have not yet realized that these events are a planned provocation.

Israel must be seen as the aggressor, and perceived as the bad guys by much of the world. They must be provoked into a major disproportionate escalation of violence in order to provide religious justification for outside intervention from elements hellbent on the destruction of the Jewish state of Israel.

With a US administration that has shown no desire to intervene, it is a good time to execute their plans....

The Israelis would be wise to more carefully consider a measured response to any provocation.... May be too late now.

imo

originally posted by: g146541

originally posted by: thesmokingman
a reply to: DeadSeraph

While Hamas is firing rockets, they aren't doing much damage or inflicting as many casualties as Israeli strikes

So....are they supposed to just sit by and wait for some real damage to be done? If someone is firing bullets into my yard, im coming out guns a blazing...that is a promise

Hmmm..
The two kids adjacent to my lot were throwing rocks at my greenhouse (luckily it is a strong plastic).
For awhile I was thinking of doing the israeli SOP and launching some guided rockets at them, then I remembered my humanity...

Hmmm. you do realize there is a HUGE difference between some kids throwing rocks at an inanimate object and a militia shooting ROCKETS for the sole purpose of killing people right?

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
Thoughts?

The monkeys in the zoo are out of control. Even a two state solution at this point won't work. Too much hate. Too much indoctrination. Too much bronze age religious notions of 'this is my land cuz God said so'. Too much evil. Too much too much .... on both sides. The only end to this will be when they all kill each other off.

Since you asked ... that's my thought.

Hmmm. you do realize there is a HUGE difference between some kids throwing rocks at an inanimate object and a militia shooting ROCKETS for the sole purpose of killing people right?

I suppose keeping people barricaded in the worst part of town surrounded by razor wire and military troops should be considered peaceful. As long as Isreal isn't dropping bombs on them they shouldn't feel under assault? How many Israelis Have died besides the 3 boys that got kidnapped? Was there every any proof Palestinians did it? No. No proof whatsoever. They only went on a rampage, arresting hundreds of palestinians, beating people, raiding houses, and killing 7 or 8. THEN rockets started getting shot at them. That's the part people don't get. If one person fires off a rocket cuz ...i dunno maybe the Israelis arrested his cousin, killed a family member etc, israel responds with overwhelming forces and makes EVERYONE suffer for it. The Gaza Strip is blockaded. They can barely get food and almost no construction materials. It is the most crowded piece of land in the world. The Israeli's are dead wrong. I'm not saying Hamas has never been wrong and there aren't bad palestinians, but really? These people live in a literal hell.

a reply to: rustyclutch

Look, I am not choosing sides in a battle that has and will go on for many years, or saying who is right or wrong in the whole conflict. In war, no one is really RIGHT, however, I will reiterate, Israel has every right to defend themselves, period.
ETA: The palestinians ALSO have a right to defend themselves as well, but when you go willfully into a battle, do not come crying when you get smacked in the mouth with bigger and greater weapons. Truth be told, if they think this is bad, wait til they see what happens if they keep attacking Israel....I dont think ANYONE really wants to see a nuke go off, but Israel might just be crazy enough to do just that

originally posted by: [post=18123917]thesmokingman? If someone is firing bullets into my yard, im coming out guns a blazing...that is a promise

Well if you keep pushing your neighbor's fence then don't be surprised if they fire their guns. You should have kept your territory, not steel that from your neighbor. As simple as that.

originally posted by: rustyclutch

Hmmm. you do realize there is a HUGE difference between some kids throwing rocks at an inanimate object and a militia shooting ROCKETS for the sole purpose of killing people right?

I suppose keeping people barricaded in the worst part of town surrounded by razor wire and military troops should be considered peaceful. As long as Isreal isn't dropping bombs on them they shouldn't feel under assault? How many Israelis Have died besides the 3 boys that got kidnapped? Was there every any proof Palestinians did it? No. No proof whatsoever. They only went on a rampage, arresting hundreds of palestinians, beating people, raiding houses, and killing 7 or 8. THEN rockets started getting shot at them. That's the part people don't get. If one person fires off a rocket cuz ...i dunno maybe the Israelis arrested his cousin, killed a family member etc, israel responds with overwhelming forces and makes EVERYONE suffer for it. The Gaza Strip is blockaded. They can barely get food and almost no construction materials. It is the most crowded piece of land in the world. The Israeli's are dead wrong. I'm not saying Hamas has never been wrong and there aren't bad palestinians, but really? These people live in a literal hell.

keeping people barricaded in the worst part of town surrounded by razor wire
u make it sound like Nazi Germany and the "Camps",,or worse even,,,


reality check time:



"Palestine Stadium"

ya,, a real slum,,

originally posted by: g146541

originally posted by: Agit8dChop
a reply to: g146541

bit of a jaded response.

the rocks they are throwing at your greenhouse aren't going to explode and butcher young people.

If someone through a bomb through your front bedroom window, over and over and over again for years and years.. I have feeling you'd retaliate.

Oh???
Well isn't that odd!
Just when was the last israeli killed in a rocket attack?
These Palestinian "missiles" almost always fall short of intended targets, mostly because rocks are classified as missiles as well, then they are almost always no better than home made Estes cardboard rockets.
But no matter how small an attack the terrorist israelis always "respond" by sending tanks and bombs and planes and helicopters.
I just wish the US could stop funding the terrorists, this war would take on a whole new look if both sides were fighting with rocks.
Jaded... Interesting.

So let's just say that your greenhouse stone-throwers decided to switch over to grenade launchers...old ones, with very poor accuracy - or maybe they just can't get the hang of operating them, and so almost every time they miss your house and the kiddies. Try as they may to kill you and your family, they are just not very good at it.

But you know that, the law of averages being what it is, sooner or later little Bobby or Grandma Smith is going to get blasted.

Let's further suppose that these little dickens with the rocket launchers are reacting to what they perceive are your past/present misdeeds (which. of course, you vehemently deny).

Are you seriously suggesting to the ATS assemblage that you would sit idly by and continue to play Russian roulette with your and your family's lives?

And, if instead, you used your superior skills and technology to seek to kill them before they killed you...would you accept the label of "terrorist" because you reacted in self-defence to protect your family from...um...the terrorist acts of the stone-throwers cum grenade launchers?

I don't know if jaded is the right word...but I might have to go along with misguided, or wrong-headed.

a reply to: DeadSeraph
Fair enough, but you say most of the "arab world" is focused on Syria and Iraq, while not mentioning there's a lot of hate for Israel. In other words, this could spiral out of control at any time, especially with a nation as formidable as Iran claiming not to recognize the right for Israel to exist.

I agree Israel overkills, but Siegel is right in the linked article when he says “No country would ever tolerate even one of these missiles, let alone 150 in a day.” Couldn't be truer. If it were the US being being hit by these missiles, I guarantee the US would have cleaned out the West Bank and the Gaza strip. Israel has shown restraint for many years.

These places are also extremely small. The gaza strip is smaller than almost all counties in the US. And even Israel is smaller than many as well. In fact, the total area of Israel and the Gaza Strip and the West Bank is smaller than the 42 largest US states. It's roughly equivalent to Maryland in area. Because of satellites, they should know the location of many of the terrorists. Like they say, the terrorists hide amongst the civilians as protection.

Part of the probelm is the GAza Strip is really too small to function as a separate state. For that matter, the West Bank isn't mcuh better off. There's no opportunity for young people there. There're no resources. At least Israel discovered some oil recently in their offshore waters.

I suppose keeping people barricaded in the worst part of town surrounded by razor wire and military troops should be considered peaceful.

Gaza City Mall
Palestinians Build Giant Three Story Shopping Mall In Gaza

This will be the second shopping mall to open in the Gaza strip in a year. Last July, Palestinians opened a two- story mall that includes a super market, international clothing stores, a food court, beauty products, a childs playground and a restaurant.

Picture at the above link.

a reply to: thesmokingman

Well honestly people need to pick a side or stop talking. Either you think its fair to be herded into a cage and surrounded by guys with guns all day that talk trash to you and dish out minor abuses, or you think it's right to stand up when you are oppressed. Are we saying the Palestinians aren't oppressed? It's all their fault they are under occupation? The palestinians shouldn't fight back? That's what I'm getting out of all these arguments people are giving. Stop trying to dance back and forth over the fence and say what you mean. Either you think it's ok to be oppressed or you think it's ok to fight oppression. That is what this situation boils down to on the most basic levels.

originally posted by: rustyclutch
a reply to: thesmokingman

Well honestly people need to pick a side or stop talking. Either you think its fair to be herded into a cage and surrounded by guys with guns all day that talk trash to you and dish out minor abuses, or you think it's right to stand up when you are oppressed. Are we saying the Palestinians aren't oppressed? It's all their fault they are under occupation? The palestinians shouldn't fight back? That's what I'm getting out of all these arguments people are giving. Stop trying to dance back and forth over the fence and say what you mean. Either you think it's ok to be oppressed or you think it's ok to fight oppression. That is what this situation boils down to on the most basic levels.

Just uneducated babble....that is all this post is...I am saying that they are not oppressed. Hows that?
ETA: I will NOT stop talking either...I was asked for MY opinion on the matter, and thats is what I have given. Last I checked, this is America, and they have not yet taken away MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH

a reply to: g146541

So, even when the missiles "fall short" does that mean there should be no response because nobody died? Just let them do it over and over until someone dies??

Listen, if you fire a rocket whether it hits/kills anyone or not...Is an act of war and you better be ready for retaliation. Just because nobody died or the missiles didn't hit anything, doesn't mean all is forgotten! Israel has every right to blow them off the map in my eyes!

a reply to: thesmokingman

Just uneducated babble....that is all this post is...I am saying that they are not oppressed. Hows that?

Then educate me Mr. Smarty pants. Since I obviously don't understand what the word oppression means. You don't even have an opinion. You just want to ride the fence and type words. If you aren't saying they aren't oppressed..why won't you say they are? IF you are willing to say they ARE oppressed, are you saying oppressed people have no right to fight back? I'm really not understanding my lack of education as you so ignorantly implied. The Israeli's arent oppressed. No one is checkin their papers everywhere they go. The only razor wire near their homes is the razorwire that keeps the Palestinians out. Sure the palestinians don't like them and don't want them there...but that doesnt' quite qualify as oppression does it? Aggression yes. Justified Aggression. The israeli's deal with Israeli POLICE when they commit a crime. Not the freaking military and tribunals. That is oppression. Uneducated....lol you people are funny.

a reply to: rustyclutch

You don't even have an opinion. You just want to ride the fence and type words

Actually Mr. smarty pants, I DO have an opinion, and if I am correct, you are flaming me for having one...Now who is trying to oppress who?

I think the majority of the missiles and mortar fire are coming from the Gaza Strip, if I recall rightly. I know there have been thousands of them.

Israel has been pummeled over the years, not just Palestinians. It's like that whole area is living in a state of silent war.

Here:
en.wikipedia.org - List of Palestinian suicide attacks...
en.wikipedia.org - Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel...

Also note Iran can probably be blamed for a lot of the funding and supplying of rockets and mortars launched at Israel from the Gaza Strip.

The Gaza Strip cannot function on its own. Too small. No resources. Too much violence. Too much hatred for Israel.

It's a failed nont-state.

Go here:
en.wikipedia.org - Gaza Strip...

Some quotes from the above:

.......
The economy of the Hamas administered Gaza Strip is severely hampered by Israel's almost total blockade, high population density, limited land access, strict internal and external security controls, the effects of Israeli military operations, and restrictions on labor and trade access across the border. Per capita income (PPP) was estimated at US$ 3,100 in 2009, a position of 164th in the world.[129] Seventy percent of the population is below the poverty line according to a 2009 estimate. (*) [129] Gaza Strip industries are generally small family businesses that produce textiles, soap, olive-wood carvings, and mother-of-pearl souvenirs; the Israelis have established some small-scale modern industries in an industrial centre. Israel supplies the Gaza Strip with electricity.
.......
Most of the Gaza Strip administration funding comes from outside as an aid, with large portion delivered by UN organizations directly to education and food supply. Most of the Gaza GDP of $700 million comes as foreign humanitarian and direct economic support.[citation needed] Of those funds, the major part is supported by the U.S. and the European Union.
.......
On April 2012, the Hamas government in Gaza approved its budget for 2012, which was up 25% year-on-year over 2011 budget, indicating that donors, including Iran, benefactors in the Islamic world and Palestinian expatriates, are still heavily funding the movement.....

* Only 16 percent of the US as at or below the poverty line.

originally posted by: thesmokingman
a reply to: DeadSeraph

While Hamas is firing rockets, they aren't doing much damage or inflicting as many casualties as Israeli strikes

So....are they supposed to just sit by and wait for some real damage to be done? If someone is firing bullets into my yard, im coming out guns a blazing...that is a promise

So Palestine is just supposed to sit by and allow Israel to make mass arrests and murder their people with no response?

a reply to: buster2010

War is hell.

originally posted by: thesmokingman
a reply to: buster2010

War is hell.

When was war declared? According to Israel the war ended in 09. So it's ok if Israel does what they want huh?

a reply to: buster2010

I guess so.............