Ten incredible things Ancient Aliens taught us!!!

a reply to: wmd_2008

My only real argument against that is the mindset.

Is Mazlow even remotely correct? What was the emerging human mind actually like?

A major difference between human thought and animal thought is abstract thought. We are much more adept at abstract thought than other animals. I wouldn't call it "the" difference, but it is a major difference.

While it could be argued that any art is abstract by nature, I would argue that at this point in humanity it could be that art was a necessarily abstract representation of a mind that was still quite concrete. If it was made, there is a reason/use for it, in other words.

I am certain this has become less and less so, much to our own demise. A more concrete thinking problem solver will look to current examples (i.e., nature) more than dreaming up new solutions. Without parsing it down into the whole "as above, so below" axiom, it would seem that our "clever ancestors" could possibly have been so clever due to a combination of factors including more time observing nature, and a more concrete thought process used in problem solving. Quite literally, they may have been incapable of understanding the microchip because of a complete lack of context.

Our world is becoming more and more abstract. We actually tend to, as a civilization, live completely outside of the world around us (barring few exceptions).

All of this to point out that the interpretation of stylized art is predicated on the known, and based on the context of now.

The OP is filled with nothing but suppositions, assumptions and unsupported opinions. No facts or evidence to support ANY of it. Thread title is false, as most of his examples can be attributed to ancient cultures...and not aliens from another planet.

a reply to: skalla


a reply to: skalla

I hope you're feeling better, really with talk of aliens i am only playing Devils advocate to the current way of looking at things, for myself i prefer the Guardians of the Divine Laws that emerged from the Abzu as explanation for the figures...

Putting things into perspective, Vinca appears to have been an epicentre for cultic beliefs attached to these figures that went on to extend over a great geographic range for the best part of two thousand years and was a mayor cultural influence on the rise of the City States, they are pretty much the only evidence for any sort of belief system during the period 7,000 to 5,000 years ago in those regions, so whatever they relate to is of huge significance.

During that period they became household protective guardians and this probably also translates into the Sumerian Apkallu foundation bricks often containing seven figurines, also during that period no doubt followers wore masks in imitation.

The art history context is as you suggested critical here, the genre of mannerism and seemingly natural portraiture evidence at the core sites, the Jomon thinking man, the Vinca thinking man, the variability of poses before the standardized idol forms such as the Cycladian or Eye Idols of Tell Brak, in similar manner people will reduce a great mystery into some coverall term, anthropomorphic, ritualistic, abstract, shamanistic, and you have lost sight of the individuals behind the masks, the reality of what occured, and the ones that most readily dismiss are the ones that understand the least what is involved.

The animal helmets you mentioned are interesting in that the Seven sages also appear to have brought their dogs with them through the Apsu, how crazy is that...

The figurines of the fish apkallu and bird Apkallu have some of their most prominent attestations in this Apotropaic function and the ritual instructions dictate that 7 bird apkallu were to be underneath the headboard of the bed, while 7 fish apkallu were to be buried underneath the threshold barring entrance to any hostile force. The Apkallu figurines were to be fashioned of clay and "all beings of clay (including the dogs and the apkallu) are called bīnūt apsê, "creature of the Apsû

abgal-apkallu-sages

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Thanks, i'm still purdy yuk but meh

I disagree that i'm missing something, i've just been discussing your OP - i did feel that you were playing Devil's Advocate and making a thread aimed more at jovial entertainment but ofc that does not limit discussion on the subject. Any ways, this may be of interest re the figures being masked (and categorically not wearing helmets) as the views of the figurines are not solely from the front which does skew one's perception:

Google Book preview of "The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe"

a reply to: skalla

Thanks that was a good read, often what is seen could only be described as a mask, but in this example it can be seen that even though the front piece of what i would suggest is a helmet is raised above the general surface, considering how the costume from the rear is seen to continue onto the head with no suggestion of visible neck or hair or ears then this is a coverall suit with frontal face section that can be raised.



Of course also these are often not masks as you would expect to see them, with holes or depressions for the eyes to see through, and mouth openings, often the eye-piece is raised above the surface suggesting more a lens piece, which they didn't have the means to make.



The Sobatinovka shrine figurines i hadn't come across before and they're interesting with regards to non-masked figurines having Ophidian features, generally more interest in such in Cucuteni figurines, but how this translated to Minoan culture again fascinating.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

There are ofc more pics to help trace development in the other previews that can be linked via her name in google books.

a reply to: skalla

You know what i hadn't looked at my pic in the OP closely enough and long enough, in describing the female on the left as an example of a regular seated woman i was sort of overlooking that she is also wearing a mask, hence the flat face and somewhat featureless expression. I still think she's a regular enough woman and wearing a long white dress but on her mask you see eye slits and also one for the mouth, as you'd expect.



In being seen sat upon a stool bearing markings undoubtably held sacred and holding out a bowl that would probably have contained offerings she has to be seen in a cultic context, which i would suggest is imitation of the more enigmatic masked ones.

This then provides two potential groups wearing masks, the cult devotees and the objects of their veneration, which sort of complicates things but also gives great insight into what lay behind these remarkable traditions.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

I used to work with some professional mask makers and for a couple of years particularly closely with one (who was also an actor and director etc) who trained in Bali. We used the works of Joseph Campbell (in particular "The Hero with a Thousand Faces") and Jungian archetypes as a template for transformative anti-trauma work with autistic and abused teens where myths and life events were acted out as we directed various gradual changes to the scene to exorcize remnants of fear and other damage etc.

The masks were an intensely powerful tool in this context and it had to be very carefully managed lest the archetype could take over the person receiving the therapy.

I was astounded at the power of it (my colleague was the instigator of the work and it had been running for a few years before i joined him) and mask are intensely mystical items when used with conviction.

a reply to: skalla

It's true that masks can empower people and really interesting.

I still cant find the particular Sow mask i referenced earlier, but luckily i found another Vinca mask of a sow dating from approx 6.5kya, a little less abstract perhaps than the example that i have in print. The description seems to suggest that it is usable mask size and it serves as a useful example that these were most likely used in some way rather than just being something represented only in the figurines.



Source: The Fertility Goddesses of Old Europe

I've not read this particular work yet, but the mask is quite similar to the one i talked about earlier.

a reply to: Kantzveldt
IMO, you can't claim two scripts are derivative or even related simply because they both contain figures made with straight lines.

It could be that the Vinca script is a precursor to later scripts. The problem is, it's not evidenced.

It is apparently evidenced that the Vinca script is a deriviative of markings made in paleolithic cave art, however.

Funny we would have evidence looking at times prior to the Vinca, but not after.

Harte

a reply to: skalla


That looks more like a jar to me, in fact a sort of piggy bank..!?!


a reply to: Harte


Markings in cave art are more to do with counting days off, every single mark means number one, Vinca was a far more complex series of symbolic signs with religious connotations

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Chortle .....I should have specified it was the second pic which is hollow and backless, but figure one could certainly be a Neolithic or Chalcolithic piggy bank. Possibly with buttocks. It may even rival the Patrick (not Squidward as i boobed earlier, I'm more Gumball than i am Spongebob) Power-Ranger.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Harte

Markings in cave art are more to do with counting days off, every single mark means number one, Vinca was a far more complex series of symbolic signs with religious connotations

Yet there is a real association between the counting marks and the Vinca script.
Also, there is a similar association between marks on pre-literate Mesopotamian tally sticks and proto-Sumerian.
There are several papers about this available on the intertubes.

Harte