The Colorado Mary Jane Facade

a reply to: Logarock

And if good homegrown is so cheep why pay state store prices anyway?

Pure convenience. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why shop at 7-11 for milk when Safeway is just a mile away? Same thing.

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: Logarock

Oh boy, talk about apples and oranges. What part of MJ is MJ do you not get? If you can grow a pot plant, you got all the goods you need. This is not comparable to moonshine, but you keep on thinking that!

The are not very comparable when you take into consideration how they are produced and the consequences of not doing it right. Anyone can plant a seed or two.

And don't make the mistake of thinking anyone coming from another direction than you has no understanding about the thing. Truth is you probably never set down and thought about the issue outside your immediate situation. To you MJ is just part of the ambiance of your life and the state is cool now.

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: Logarock

And if good homegrown is so cheep why pay state store prices anyway?

Pure convenience. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why shop at 7-11 for milk when Safeway is just a mile away? Same thing.

Not everyone shops at 7-11. 7-11 is not why the state went into the business.

a reply to: Logarock

To you MJ is just part of the ambiance of your life and the state is cool now.

No it isn't. I've pointed out several times now that MJ isn't a "part of my ilfe", nor do i smoke the stuff. I just happen to realize that the people voted on it, and it's time for people like you to accept that fact and quit making up lies and fabrications about the situation that don't exist.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: Logarock

And if good homegrown is so cheep why pay state store prices anyway?

Pure convenience. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why shop at 7-11 for milk when Safeway is just a mile away? Same thing.

Not everyone shops at 7-11. 7-11 is not why the state went into the business.

Sure, and I guess it also has nothing to do with the fact that people voted for it and that Colorado has made surplus profit in taxes on it either, does it?

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: Wookiep

I am not saying that it won't be like that in the future. I do believe it will be. But cannabis in colorado is a highly regulated/taxed industry.

I'm sorry but if I can give a guy $10 for something they are charging $20 for at the store... The issue of legality is not an issue.

Yes, but obviously there are many people who don't mind paying more simply to avoid doing something Illegal. Convenience is what people will pay for. They pay a little more for someone to Mow the Lawn so they don't have to. They pay a little more for someone to cook so they don't have to. It's the basis of all service oriented jobs.

Yes but look at the type of customers you are talking about. These are who the state has gone into business for. Joe Blow is still going to get picked up trying to save some bread by buying elsewhere. This state approved market was designed to glean high tax off the upper 30% of MJ users. That's the upper 30% of users in the economic 30%.

originally posted by: Wookiep

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: Logarock

And if good homegrown is so cheep why pay state store prices anyway?

Pure convenience. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why shop at 7-11 for milk when Safeway is just a mile away? Same thing.

Not everyone shops at 7-11. 7-11 is not why the state went into the business.

Sure, and I guess it also has nothing to do with the fact that people voted for it and that Colorado has made surplus profit in taxes on it either, does it?

In fact that is what this thread is about.

a reply to: Logarock

In fact that is what this thread is about.

Your thread is about -

The illegal sales and production market will remain very attractive and will only become more so as taxes rise over time.

Which, as has already been pointed out, severely exaggerated and complete BS. Why don't you read the rest of your thread to understand the counter points refuting that nonsense?

In fact, why don't you come to Colorado and hear from the folk you think are so willing to turn to the black market? Until then, you're just spouting unfounded crap for politicians. I'm out for now, but it's been fun, cya tomorrow perhaps.

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: mOjOm

I used to look at "hip-hop/rap" as a "niche" in the 80's. I thought it was just a fad and swore it would go away, but it stayed, and it's not going anywhere. I later learned that it was an entire culture, not just music. MJ isn't a niche, and it's not something just "hippies" do anymore. It's not going anywhere and it's right up there with alcohol and tobacco when it comes to personal vices, just not as addictive. It's time people realize this.

Dude you must understand that MJ came out full boom in the 70's and everybody from all walks of like were partaking. High grade MJ started coming in during the late 70s and has been going full steam to this day. The hippies get tagged but the truth is farm boys were growing by the mid 80's.

a reply to: Wookiep

Its really basic economics. As prices rise for any reason folks come in to undercut prices. Especially if the state tried to run a monopoly on the product.

Growers and producers, handlers and dealers competed between themselves. Now with the state as player here, working especially for tax revenue, it will artificially create a stronger underground market.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: rockintitz

Haha, a tax increased willingly by the populous, all in the name of freedom. Why?

Because the general public is willing to get on their hands and knees to finally get something they want.

You make it sound like they're all crack heads that will do anything to get their fix. I don't see it like that at all. I see people willing pay a little extra for a product that was a hassle to get before but is easy to get now. That extra also helps the economy, ensures product quality, etc.

It's really a win win for everyone in my opinion.

This has more to do with the social realities connected to the other way of obtaining the product. Most of the type of users that will pay extra are those that found the whole thing cumbersome due to social economic factors. They want a nice clean operation removed form the other end of the social strata.

Once the state figured out that there were high end buyers is when they decided to jump into the game. This is regressive taxation for those customers that can afford it. Are you going to tell me that the state didn't know that over half the population would still be forced to use the old illegal system and methods of exchange? This is simply legalized MJ for the upper 40% of users.

And they are certainly not like crack users. This is posh. This is the state stepping in for the posh crowd.

Whenever items are taxed disproportionately (read SIN taxes) due to government bureaucrats peddling religious fervor instead of reason, the black market sale of these items will always exist...

Solution?

Legalize all drugs, period.

Since every single dollar eventually crosses a cash register, institute a federal sales tax of twenty percent on all items bought and purchased in the US...do away with all other forms of taxes...states can institute a ten percent sales tax...Federal budget surplus and state budgets' surplus within a year...

a reply to: Logarock

Well I am pointing out that a great deal of myth....by fact deletion and giddiness is being perpetuated. Just pointing out the running BS behind this. Its important that we notice how things are sold to the public for justification and approval. We need to guard ourselves from being dupes.

Great words to capture what I have been arguing on ATS for the last couple of days.

This only the first act in this production. If history is any guide, those deep in love-fest will soon be an unwilling audience for the 2nd and 3rd act. When has something similar ever turned out peaches and cream for the opening round cheerleaders?

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: captaintyinknots

In the tomato model though, every farmer pays taxes. We're not there yet with marijuana.

ETA: I'd love to see a weed farmers market.

itd be easy enough to set up. Farmers are taxed on what they sell, as they should be. But the spectrum of pricerange would grow greatly. Thered be plenty of cheap, commercial stuff, and lots of boutique stuff. Everyones happy, even the govt, because theres tax dollars coming in from all sides.

Ive also ling said a state should legalize and tax, but write the law so that all tax revenue goes to healthcare in that state, essentially making it free for all state residents, while removing the broken obamacare system from the equation.

The way I see it is, now that Colorado or the Feds won't be busting these people for growing or using pot, they'll now be doing the same under RICO laws for evading paying taxes.

The prison population is not going down anytime soon.

originally posted by: TDawgRex
The way I see it is, now that Colorado or the Feds won't be busting these people for growing or using pot, they'll now be doing the same under RICO laws for evading paying taxes.

The prison population is not going down anytime soon.

if theres any "conspiracy" here, this is it.

Extracts can provide medicinal benefits without intoxicating effects. Some people prefer using vapor pens. Maybe edibles have been available for sometime but most people wouldn't trust it unless they know the person/source. Imo the black market won't appeal to those users.

A lot of people don't want a MM card. They buy recreational cannabis for medicinal use. They do this for many reasons. I've heard some say they don't like the paper trail, don't want it on record that they use. Elderly folks who fear being taken advantage of or worse won't support the black market but some of them are simply too embarrassed to ask a doctor. People using medicinally want a safe/consistent/legal product.

With so many legal grow operations popping up expertise is needed. Illicit growers now have marketable skills. Knowledgeable growers will be sought out/compensated. I imagine their employers won't drug test them, it could be the perfect career/employment opportunity. As more of them are enticed into the legal industry it will impact quality/consistency/availability within the black market.

Day spas/health retreats etc. using a variety of products can offer legal entrepreneurial opportunities to folks who may have previously dabbled in the illicit trade.

Producing any product with the intent of making fast/easy cash can't compare to the quality that comes from craftsmen doing what they love. As with any product you get what you put in.

I understand the fear/apprehension but current methods/war on drugs isn't working another approach is needed. Clinging to misconceptions/closed minds has only encouraged the illicit trade. I'm not implying CO has all the answers but we're done beating that dead horse/highly motivated to try another way.

a reply to: Wookiep

Sure down the road in say 5 yrs when it's all done and over. Anytime when a state or gov does something, it's for the cash! Never do they take into account say 2 yrs, 4 yrs or even 10!

Now that COLO has all that money. Lets see if maybe they can take care of the roads! Last time I was there, potholes on the Highway? It would seem the War on drugs is over! Test run maybe?

Drugs are becoming a Norm these days, much better then pills if one asks me!

Peace

Federal growing permit?

a reply to: Logarock
I have said for a long time that the true drug crime is exploitation.
The only way to solve is to tax drugs based solely on social cost. Tax income
must only be used to pay for any harm caused by usage. Profiteering
by the state won't work. It simply makes the state the pusher/criminal.
If the tax is set low enough, people will seek the legal.

The same thing happened with alcohol prohibition. Bootlegging
continued until all areas were "wet" and taxation rates had dropped
til bootlegging was no longer profitable.

Colorado is too greedy.

I've gone back and reread some of the thread. If people are paying up to $400
oz, there is plenty of room for a black market. Especially if growing is relatively low
risk. I suspect that the price will settle out as it becomes more competitive, but I
still think the tax rate is set high enough to encourage a black market.