Amendments to Trinity

After Issac Newton death, they discovered letters written by Issac concerning the trinity. He believed they were altered over the ages to align itself more with Plato and Aristotle than with Jesus. In his letter to John Locke he pointed out that John 5:7 was altered.

If we look oldest oldest bible, Codex Sinaiticus, it is written: "For they that testify are three,"
But John 5:7 in King James Version is is written : "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. "

": and these three are one"

These subtle changes to Christianity may have been introduced to support the notion that Yeshua(aka Jesus) was God, which empowered the Pope of the Vatican to be Gods spokesman on earth.

I also suspect that the Hebrew to Greek to English mis-translation of Yeshua to Jesus was done on purpose to nullify prayer. The correct translation of Yeshua from Hebrew to English is Joshua. If our universe was created by the word of God then we must accept that words are important. We should call Yeshua by his proper name, either Yeshua or Joshua, nothing else is acceptable.

Accept my apologies in advance if I have offended your beliefs, that is not my purpose, my purpose is truth.

a reply to: glend

Actually its 1 John 5:7 which is a well known addition/forgery

the original greek reads... ( earliest copy in existence)

For there are three that bear record, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one

a reply to: Akragon

AH you are correct, thank you.

a reply to: glend

gladly...

Its good to see others noticing the issue's with the trinity... Its been argued since the second century, and still people try to point to various piece of scripture to attempt to justify the triune God... Yet the bible actually teaches nothing of it...

Arius was pretty much the final defender of what could be considered a trinity, but it wasn't as the current church defines it... Jesus was always submissive to the Father... He is the Greatest of all...

So in reality there wasn't a triune God...

Just one... The Father... As HE said

Reconciling Arius...

a reply to: Akragon

Great thread , if admins here please delete this thread. Thanks

a reply to: glend

Why?

Perhaps you might actually find the letter and post it or something...

Sorry I didn't mean to kill your groove...

a reply to: Akragon

Your previous thread has way more info on the subject (so I am not bothered either way). What are your views on Jesus being accepted instead of hebrew to english=Joshua. I can understand the confusion if all the churches decided to use the correct translation but words are important.

a reply to: glend

Hmm... good question

Don't you think, IF Jesus is divine... the son of God as he stated...

And you are speaking to him from your heart... He will know you're speaking to him whether you call him Jesus or Joshua... Or Yeshua?

a reply to: Akragon

I suspect he's wondering why everyone is calling him Jesus when many know his name is Joshua in english. Personally I am more aligned with Muslums belief that Yeshua was a great prophet of GOD so when praying to Yeshua I specifically use his name Yeshua. When praying to God I use the name God.

a reply to: glend

God isn't a name its a title...

Honestly... IF you look at what he taught, do you really believe He's gonna be like...

Nope you're out buddy... you said my name wrong...

People tend to get too hung up on the details, and ignore his message...

a reply to: Akragon

Maybe so, but I feel that every alteration to the original message, be it trinity, his name, or the claimed 36,000 changes between codex sinaiticus and todays bible (and how many more before then) obscures the true message of Christianity to the point that the message is lost or obscure. I believe Gospel of Thomas has not been modified and because of it, more inspiring.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Akragon

Maybe so, but I feel that every alteration to the original message, be it trinity, his name, or the claimed 36,000 changes between codex sinaiticus and todays bible (and how many more before then) obscures the true message of Christianity to the point that the message is lost or obscure. I believe Gospel of Thomas has not been modified and because of it, more inspiring.

Thomas is very similar to the gospels actually...

The First Synod of ATS: The Gospel of Thomas

And even the codex sinaiticus is just an early "bible"... the earliest fragments and copies of the gospels still hold his message... as does Thomas but In a more mystical sense...

You must understand his message was simplicity... religion complicated everything...

but Gods word was preserved I assure you... in lies in the heart of man... and in the gospels if you know where to look...

Hope this helps:

TRINITY IN THE BIBLE (MANY MORE REFERENCES AVAILABLE)

One God:
1 Tim 2:5, Deut 4:35, 6:4, Isa 43:10-11:

Plurality of One God:
Gen 1:26, 3:22, 11:7, Isa 6:8.
Isa 9:6 shows the multiple persons of God as Father, Son, and Counselor
(aka Comforter, which Jesus said he would send to his disciples John 15:26)

The Father is God
Isa 6:3 ,1 Cor 8:6, John 17:1-3, II Cor 1:3, Philippians 2:11, Col 1:3,
I Peter 1:2, Matt 6:8, 7:21, Gal 1:1

The Son is God
Jn 12:41, 5:18, 20:28, 1:1-14, 9:35-3, Titus 2:13, Rom 9:5, II Pet 1:1,
Col 2:9, Heb 1:8-10, Rev 1:8,18, Is 7:14, 45:21-22 Mic 5:2, Matt 1:23

The Spirit is God
John 16:13, Heb 9:14, Acts 5:3-4, II Cor 3:17, John 15:26

Who raised Jesus from the dead:
Father Rom 6:4, Acts 3:26, I Thes 1:10
Son John 2:19-21, 10:17-18
Spirit Rom 8:11
God Heb 13:20, Acts 13:30, 17:31

Who is God?
Father Eph 4:6
Son Tit 2:13, John 1:1, 20:28, 9:35-37
Spirit Gen 1:2, Ps 104:30
God Gen 1:1, Heb 11:3

Who saves man?
Father 1 Pet 1:3
Son John 5:21, 4:14
Spirit John 3:6, Tit 3:5
God 1 John 3:9

Who justifies man?
Father Jer 23:6, II Cor 5:19
Son Rom 5:9, 10:4, II Cor 5:19,21
Spirit I Cor 6:11, Gal 5:5
God Rom 4:6, 9:33

Who sanctifies man?
Father Jude 1
Son Tit 2:14
Spirit I Pet 1:2
God Ex 31:13
Persons of God do: Of the Father, by the Son, through the Spirit 1 Cor:8:6, John 15:26

originally posted by: glend
I also suspect that the Hebrew to Greek to English mis-translation of Yeshua to Jesus was done on purpose to nullify prayer. The correct translation of Yeshua from Hebrew to English is Joshua. If our universe was created by the word of God then we must accept that words are important. We should call Yeshua by his proper name, either Yeshua or Joshua, nothing else is acceptable.

"Jesus", in the N T , is not a translation.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: glend

Actually its 1 John 5:7 which is a well known addition/forgery

the original greek reads... ( earliest copy in existence)

For there are three that bear record, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one

The idea that the oldest surviving manuscript is the "original", is now, already outdated.

a reply to: jmdewey60

Well yes I know that... perhaps I should have omitted the word "original"

We have no original's... Every piece of the NT we have is a copy of a copy of a copy...

And we have virtually nothing from the first century

a reply to: glend


I would like to touch more on the idea of the "Trinity"

As a Muslim I constantly defend Christianity's understanding of the trinity.

Most Muslims don't fully understand it .

Their ideal is " god created him self to kill him self so man can be forgiven for sin? How can this be , when god Will's something it happens? He created the heavens and earth , why must he kill him self to forgive sin ?"

This is how allot of Muslims understand the concept of Jesus in terms of "Christan belief "

I also run to into " Christians believe in 3 gods ?" ....I make it clear that the "trinity" is the idea that their one god head and that the holy ghost and Jesus are but an exstention of that god head.

This means that Christians worship one god right ?
As do Muslims .

So my question is : if Christians believe that Jesus is an "exstention" of god thus being god him self .. And Jesus is no longer present in the flesh ..then why worship something that is no longer present on this earth and no longer an "exstention " of god ?
Why not worship god directly?

But if you chose not to then no worries cause we all worship the same god right ?
That's of course assuming Jesus was part of god ...

Humbly LSH

a reply to: glend

They that testify are three.

They that testify are the 3 bodies of enlightenment.

These 3 should not be incorrectly presumed to be separate entities, but correctly understood as states of being.

These states of being are the mind, the speech, and the body.

These 3 bodies, or states of being, testify to ones attainment of enlightenment.

The mind being testifies to ones attainment of complete determination to the corresponding states of being, the speech being and the body being.

The speech being testifies to ones attainment of communicating both on the verbal and nonverbal levels, and it is also associated with the idea of relating, so that speech means not just the capacity to use words but the ability to communicate on all levels of understanding.

The body being testifies to ones attainment of acting upon and relating the communicated wisdom.

Through the purification, or balancing, of one's mind, speech, and body, the physical body ceases to be a temple for undesirable negative tendencies, excessive obsessions, and desires, and instead becomes a medium with which to express extraordinary power to work with and benefit other sentient beings.

Isaac Newton was a great enlightened being as his accomplishments testify to such.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

One must understand that Jesus did not claim to be God, or God in the flesh...

This idea of a triune God was not known until quite a few years after his death...

Its considered a "revealed" doctrine, but it certainly wasn't revealed by anyone close to Jesus...

Over the first few years of early Christianity they struggled to find any bit of scripture that might come close to identifying the three in one God, which you can see by one of the posts in this thread... little bits and pieces cherry picked from many different books within the bible... but in reality, there is no trinity taught in the bible aside from a few pieces of information that were added after the fact...

Jesus was most definitely a part of God... but he also said we are as well...

Which does not make us equal to him... but we all have a part in the divine

a reply to: Akragon

The part we may have is understood as the Holy Spirit which can come to us at salvation or at least that's my understanding as a Christian, but you have to accept it, not ignore it and turn away from it.

As for Christ, in some ways, He is like the human version of the burning bush, an avatar of the Divine, of God. He is not God and yet He is. It is the only way He could live a life adjudged to be acceptable as a sacrifice for the sins of the world. Perhaps another way to describe is that where the average human is born with a sinful, base nature, He was born with the nature of God, free of the inclination to sin.

Or my husband tells of an anecdote he heard:

There once was a man who loved birds so much that he always made sure he fed them and always tried to provide for the ones in his yard as best he could. At the same time, he was undergoing a spiritual crisis and he decided that he just could not accept Christianity anymore because it made no sense. He decided to not accompany his wife and son to church anymore.

That day, he noticed some birds that had decided not go south. They were cold, and he knew his barn was warm and would shelter them. He spent all day trying various ways to get them to enter the barn so they would be safe and shelter through the worst of the winter, but it did no good. Finally, he threw up his hands in frustration and just wished for that just a few minutes he could be a bird so he could understand them and know how they thought so he could communicate how best to get them to understand what was best for them ...

And he had an epiphany ... and fell on his knees and returned to church.

The implication of the anecdote being that Christ was God's attempt to communicate to mankind what He really wished for us - what His best example of a perfect life and perfect person is. God cannot communicate this to us directly because we cannot fathom Him. This is mentioned clearly several other places in the Bible, so He finally turned to a human to try to directly communicate it by example ...

And we still made a muck of it.