Hobby Lobby and the supreme court.

So Hobby Lobby's owners are so dead set in their religious beliefs that they felt it was necessary to go to the SCOTUS, because they felt it was against their beliefs to have to be forced to provide employees with birth control.

Yet the exact same company has no problem what so ever with investing the exact same employees 401k monies into hedge funds that contain companies that profit from birth control.


I have to call the BS flag on this one..... you are either 100% committed to your beliefs or you are not... it's that simple..... not only when it suits you or your "company".

Hobby Lobby is a craft store chain that says it operates "in a manner consistent with Biblical principles." Those values extend throughout its business, except when it comes to the company's retirement plan.

money.cnn.com...

They were NOT against birth control and never were. They were against paying for abortion pills and the murder of unborn humans. Get your facts straight before you rant. No one is saying the mothers can't kill their babies on their own.

a reply to: RickinVa

Well seeing how hobby lobby doesnt have a problem with birth control they should be able to invest into it. The issue that was brought up to the supreme court was with birth control that happens after conception. in other words the rain coat is fine just not the pill the day after.

originally posted by: Metallicus
They were NOT against birth control and never were. They were against paying for abortion pills and the murder of unborn humans. Get your facts straight before you rant. No one is saying the mothers can't kill their babies on their own.

I agree. I am amazed at how many folks don't know this whole story by now. They are covering (and have no issue with) 16 out of 20 different birth control methods. People are ASSuming that they refused to cover any and all birth control when that simply isn't the case.

They just do not want to pay for the emergency contraceptives which can kill a fertilized egg before it implants.

originally posted by: Shaiker
a reply to: RickinVa

Well seeing how hobby lobby doesnt have a problem with birth control they should be able to invest into it. The issue that was brought up to the supreme court was with birth control that happens after conception. in other words the rain coat is fine just not the pill the day after.

Nicely put. Pithy and on the money.

The retirement plans they offer (most likely brokered) have nothing to do with their rights. So... I guess CNN is just pointing out that the Hobby Lobby people are hypocrites? Is that the whole point here?

No substance or relevance to the ruling, just "f*** Hobby Lobby"?

The statist left is coming completely unglued over this whole thing. You can't pay for this kind of entertainment.

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe

originally posted by: Metallicus
They were NOT against birth control and never were. They were against paying for abortion pills and the murder of unborn humans. Get your facts straight before you rant. No one is saying the mothers can't kill their babies on their own.

I agree. I am amazed at how many folks don't know this whole story by now. They are covering (and have no issue with) 16 out of 20 different birth control methods. People are ASSuming that they refused to cover any and all birth control when that simply isn't the case.

They just do not want to pay for the emergency contraceptives which can kill a fertilized egg before it implants.

originally posted by: Shaiker
a reply to: RickinVa

Well seeing how hobby lobby doesnt have a problem with birth control they should be able to invest into it. The issue that was brought up to the supreme court was with birth control that happens after conception. in other words the rain coat is fine just not the pill the day after.

Nicely put. Pithy and on the money.

It seems to me a lot of people lately just want to jump to conclusions without knowing the smallest part of the facts. I swear they just want to be in the cocked and pissed position. I wonder if this is a temperature indicator of the country from a small scale sample. The discussion is becoming smaller and the rant is becoming louder, and heaven forbid, don't confuse me with the facts.

a reply to: RickinVa

Actually it's the employee that chooses how to invest their money.

But this is certainly ironic.

Hobby Lobby
Hobby Lobby
Hobby Lobby

originally posted by: Metallicus
They were NOT against birth control and never were. They were against paying for abortion pills and the murder of unborn humans. Get your facts straight before you rant. No one is saying the mothers can't kill their babies on their own.

Technically these are not abortion pills. Getting rid of a fertilized egg before it implants is not abortion. There is no guarantee that a fertilized egg will implant. About half of fertilized eggs never stick around they just pass out of the woman's body a abortifacient is something that interrupts an established pregnancy.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe

originally posted by: Metallicus
They were NOT against birth control and never were. They were against paying for abortion pills and the murder of unborn humans. Get your facts straight before you rant. No one is saying the mothers can't kill their babies on their own.

I agree. I am amazed at how many folks don't know this whole story by now. They are covering (and have no issue with) 16 out of 20 different birth control methods. People are ASSuming that they refused to cover any and all birth control when that simply isn't the case.

They just do not want to pay for the emergency contraceptives which can kill a fertilized egg before it implants.

originally posted by: Shaiker
a reply to: RickinVa

Well seeing how hobby lobby doesnt have a problem with birth control they should be able to invest into it. The issue that was brought up to the supreme court was with birth control that happens after conception. in other words the rain coat is fine just not the pill the day after.

Nicely put. Pithy and on the money.

It seems to me a lot of people lately just want to jump to conclusions without knowing the smallest part of the facts. I swear they just want to be in the cocked and pissed position. I wonder if this is a temperature indicator of the country from a small scale sample. The discussion is becoming smaller and the rant is becoming louder, and heaven forbid, don't confuse me with the facts.

Absolutely. I know people IRL that like nothing better than searching out AND eventually finding something to be all offended about. It's a life mission for some I believe.

I could be wrong, but I do feel like some folks were all but rubbing their hands in glee ala Snidley Whiplash at the thought of forcing Hobby Lobby to do what they consider one of the farthest things from Godly they can imagine. Not all of course... But a lot. Retribution of some sort I suppose. An "I win, you lose" thing.

I seriously do not think that many people would have been that pissed about it had no one come on the MSM to inform them that they should be downright outraged. I also wonder how many employees would have even known this was not an option to begin with if chicken little wasn't running around screaming it to the rooftops.

It has certainly divided all of us a little further and I suppose that's just a bonus for those watching and taking notes.

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe


It has certainly divided all of us a little further and I suppose that's just a bonus for those watching and taking notes.

Boy no kidding it's getting ugly out there. I don't know why we are so easy to divide, I think there are some mentalities that take to MSM propaganda more than others. It has been my experience that those that think freely and aren't programmable so to say are completely diametrically opposed to the bulk of what the MSM has to say and find it better to do there own research and come to their own conclusions.

It seems to me the Hobby Lobby case is being developed untruthfully as a future democratic talking point for coming elections.

originally posted by: RickinVa
I have to call the BS flag on this one..... you are either 100% committed to your beliefs or you are not... it's that simple..... not only when it suits you or your "company".

I would have to call BS on the liberal Justices that supported Obamacare but did not support this ruling. Obamacare already had built in religious exemptions to the mandate. If they thought the religious exemptions were unconstitutional, they should have ruled Obamacare unconstitutional.

That is assuming, of course, that the Justices bothered to read the legislation before they ruled on it. They may have just taken Nancy Pelosi's advice and just ruled Obamacare constitutional to see what was in it.

Actually they were fine with providing 16 forms of birth control. They only objected to 4.

ETA: On the money issue, that is not THEIR money, it's their employees. They are not forcing their beliefs on their employees.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Why the BC issue wasnt part of obama care. BC was added after the bill was passed in congress by the HHS. The bill would have been far more controversial when it was shoved down the americans throat had bc been included at the time. It was added after the fact by beurocrats.

originally posted by: RickinVa
So Hobby Lobby's owners are so dead set in their religious beliefs that they felt it was necessary to go to the SCOTUS, because they felt it was against their beliefs to have to be forced to provide employees with birth control.

Not exactly. Hobby Lobby pays for 16/20 birth controls including 'the pill'. What they didn't want to pay for was four different abortificants .... like the IUD and the 'Morning After' pill. They are a devout protestant family and are against abortion. That's their religious belief.

originally posted by: buster2010
Getting rid of a fertilized egg before it implants is not abortion. .

It's killing a conceived child. It's an abortion pill. The left doesn't like to admit these are abortificants and they whine that technically they child hasn't implanted so the medical term can't be used. But the fact remains .. it kills a conceived child.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: RickinVa

Actually it's the employee that chooses how to invest their money.

But this is certainly ironic.

Hobby Lobby
Hobby Lobby
Hobby Lobby

What I think will be ironic is if hobby lobby doesn't force the employees to pull the investments and put them in to more "faith friendly" places. A side point also to your response is that it's also the employee who chooses what birth control is right for them.

a reply to: Metallicus

To the point of the OP, Hobby Lobby still invests in the the company that makes Plan B (TEVA) one of the four "abortion" contraceptives...

Source

At least eight of those funds have been invested in companies that produce contraceptives such as Teva Pharmaceutical (TEVA), Bayer (BAYRY), and Pfizer (PFE), according to a CNNMoney analysis. Teva makes Plan B. At least one fund also held Forest Laboratories, which makes a drug that is used to induce abortions.

Sooooooooo how does a company/corporation (C/C) have religious beliefs?


Do the C/C attend church on Sundays?

Do the C/C get baptized?

Do the C/C observe Ramadan?

Do the C/C believe they will go to hell when they die if they are not faithful?


I just don't get how a C/C can be considered religious for purposes of evading regulations. I have no problem with the owners being religious, but how can they shove that down their employees throats?

What next on my application for employment form.... this companies religious beliefs prevent us from providing some things we feel, as a company, go against the companies beliefs so please sign below that you acknowlecge as a condition of employment that we, as a company, can deny you benefits based on our religious beliefs?

originally posted by: RickinVa


Sooooooooo how does a company/corporation (C/C) have religious beliefs?


Do the C/C attend church on Sundays?

Do the C/C get baptized?

Do the C/C observe Ramadan?

Do the C/C believe they will go to hell when they die if they are not faithful?


I just don't get how a C/C can be considered religious for purposes of evading regulations. I have no problem with the owners being religious, but how can they shove that down their employees throats?

What next on my application for employment form.... this companies religious beliefs prevent us from providing some things we feel, as a company, go against the companies beliefs so please sign below that you acknowlecge as a condition of employment that we, as a company, can deny you benefits based on our religious beliefs?

Being a business owner myself, I think you should go out and try it yourself if you already haven't and then see if your opinion hasn't changed. Imagine it this way, should the government decide (Read Force) the contraception you provide to a renter in your house because you own it? Rather they rent the entire house or just a room. After all it is a business to rent property to people, and if you're not running it that way it is cost you higher taxes.

Just what benefits have they been denied? They still get 16 of the 20 different contraceptive methods required by Obama Care. They tell you you are denied a free and in your case a condom (Papa Stopper) based on their religious beliefs? When just about everyone at a good job goes through a thorough background check and in several cases a drug test, and this is no problem?

I love the thought of every welfare recipient having to take a drug test, because most jobs require the ones paying the welfare to take one.

And why can no one find a left thinking business to work for that gives all this stuff away without question and work for them? With all these folks complaining about a false narrative you would think they could provide a few businesses to work for so you can get EVERYTHING for free. I guess there just isn't enough government jobs to go around.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: buster2010
Getting rid of a fertilized egg before it implants is not abortion. .

It's killing a conceived child. It's an abortion pill. The left doesn't like to admit these are abortificants and they whine that technically they child hasn't implanted so the medical term can't be used. But the fact remains .. it kills a conceived child.

Pregnancy isn't a "belief", it's a medical condition. According to the American Medical Association and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, pregnancy begins upon implantation.

Frozen embryos aren't people, and when an embryo is transferred to a women during a fertility procedure, she "hopes" to become pregnant. She isn't pregnant until that embryo implants.

Again, pregnancy isn't a belief, but when "life begins" is.