Ukraine attacks with chemicals, destroys schools and hospitals and kills unarmed citizens (News)

originally posted by: Khurzon
a reply to: sosobad

More vomit.... obviously your going to continue your self egotistic propaganda...so why bother ...

I wont reply anymore... have your jack off and enjoy your self deluded drivel...I'm out..

I will thank you very much

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: Khurzon
a reply to: sosobad
93% and yet the dissenters boycotted the vote
Sounds suspisciously like not all Crimeans were included in that 93%...

Fraud...

93% of the turnout voted yes, not 93% of the population this has been gone through before, stop believing what the talking head on the telly box tells you.

The fact you got a star for being ignorant to that fact is amusing.

93% on 30% turn out does not a mandate make.

a reply to: sosobad
not doing it for you...just cant fight self egotism...

Its like a whirl pool or black hole that sucks you in...regardless of any real truth...

Ive got better things to do than provide you with endless thrills in your trolling carrier...

(p.s. your slips in verbage give away what hemisphere you live in)

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: Khurzon
a reply to: sosobad
93% and yet the dissenters boycotted the vote
Sounds suspisciously like not all Crimeans were included in that 93%...

Fraud...

93% of the turnout voted yes, not 93% of the population this has been gone through before, stop believing what the talking head on the telly box tells you.

The fact you got a star for being ignorant to that fact is amusing.

93% on 30% turn out does not a mandate make.

Source? And it doesn't make the garbage that the other poster said any truer. They stated a 93% of the population voted and called it fraud, which it wasn't I am tried to set them straight but if it doesn't come from the msm they don't believe it

originally posted by: Khurzon
a reply to: sosobad
not doing it for you...just cant fight self egotism...

Its like a whirl pool or black hole that sucks you in...regardless of any real truth...

Ive got better things to do than provide you with endless thrills in your trolling carrier...

Thought you were not replying anymore? How can I take you seriously when you don't even keep your word?

(p.s. your slips in verbage give away what hemisphere you live in)

So?

a reply to: sosobad

I'm not... you don't take anyone but yourself seriously...so what does it matter?

originally posted by: Khurzon
a reply to: sosobad

I'm not... you don't take anyone but yourself seriously...so what does it matter?

You still are

a reply to: sosobad

From your own source -


Legal aspects

According to article 73 of the 1996 Constitution of Ukraine[81] and article 3 of the 2012 Ukrainian law "On all-Ukrainian referendum", territorial changes can only be approved via a referendum where all the citizens of Ukraine are allowed to vote, including those that do not reside in Crimea.[82] The Central Election Commission of Ukraine also stated that there are no judicial possibilities, according to the legislation of Ukraine, to initiate such changes.[83]

The Venice Commission declared that the referendum was illegal under both Ukrainian and Crimean Constitutions, and violated international standards and norms.[84] The Venice Commission stressed that self-determination was to be understood primarily as internal self-determination within the framework of the existing borders and not as external self-determination through secession. Moreover, any referendum on the status of a territory should have been preceded by serious negotiations among all stakeholders. Such negotiations did not take place.

Many scholars and politicians[who?] have stated that the referendum, was conducted under the cover of assault rifles and, thus, the result was obtained through violence.[41][42][43][85]

Party of Regions MP Yuriy Miroshnychenko claimed March 11 that "the Crimean referendum is illegitimate, and its holding must be immediately stopped".[86] Another Party of Regions MP, Hanna Herman, commented the same day about Yanukovych's press conference, "He needs to ... prevent the illegal referendum".[87]

Observers

OSCE and UN absence

On March 10, 2014 the de facto Prime Minister of Crimea, Sergei Aksionov, made an unofficial verbal invitation to OSCE to monitor the plebiscite.[90][91] However, later in the day, an OSCE spokeswoman said that Crimea did not have the authority to invite the organization into the region as it is not a fully-fledged state and, therefore, incapable of requesting services provided exclusively to OSCE members.[91] On March 11, the OSCE chair, Switzerland's Foreign Minister Didier Burkhalter, declared the referendum as unconstitutional and therefore the OSCE would not send observers.[92] Uninvited OSCE military observers attempted to enter the region four times but were turned away, sometimes after warning shots were fired,[93][94] which was another reason given for not dispatching referendum observers.[95]

OSCE also published a report about their observations which "produced significant evidence of equipment consistent with the presence of Russian Federation military personnel in the vicinity of the various roadblocks encountered".[96]

The UN Human Rights Envoy Ivan Simonovic had to cancel his trip to Crimea as the current situation did not permit his travel. He intended to observe the human rights situation which was Russia's explanation for its engagement in Crimea.[97]

Non-OSCE observers
Read the info from your source since the claims vary depending on which Russian or Crimean official is talking.

Allegations of Fraud

A Russian journalist stated that she was allowed to vote even after admitting she was a Russian citizen with only a temporary one-year permit to live in Crimea[113] "According to all the laws, this is illegal," she said in one interview. "I am a foreign citizen. How can I decide the destiny of the Crimean Autonomous Republic of Ukraine?".[114]

The chairman of the electoral campaign of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People claimed officials failed to check carefully whether voters' names were on the electoral register and that some voters were bussed in to Bakhchysarai to increase participation rates in the city.[115] Mejlis also stated that only 34.2% of Crimea residents participated in the referendum.[116][117]

There were reports of people confiscating identification documents before the voting day. Simferopol city administration confirmed these claims and declared these actions unlawful.[118]

A senior US official stated there was "concrete evidence" of some ballots having been pre-marked.[119][120]

There were three Czech observers, a deputy Stanislav Berkovec reported that the voting was free and the foreign deputies could move freely. According to his dialogs with people even the Tatars inclined towards Russia.[121] Another deputy Milan Šarapatka reported that the referendum was formally regular and that there was no evidence of pressure on voters.[122] According to Miloslav Soušek (the Vysoké Mýto mayor), everything was standard, the course of the referendum was comparable to the elections in the Czech Republic, he saw no soldiers in the town.[123]

Results

Alternative estimates of results

In the evening of 16 March 2014, Mikhail Malyshev, the Crimean election Spokesman, reported that as of 20:00, 1,250,427 people or 81.36% voted in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and 274,136 or 89.50% voted in Sevastopol for a total of 1,524,563 or 82.71% of the electorate.[126] ITAR-TASS initially reported this as 1,724,563 voters in total,[127] but corrected it later.[128] The discrepancy led to some reports of a 123% turnout in Sevastopol.[129][130][131][132]

On May 5, the Russian President's Human Rights Council posted a report to their site about human rights in Crimea based on interviews with roughly 20 local human rights activists conducted over the course of two and a half days.[133] One member of the council, Yevgeny Bobrov, reported the opinion that the "vast majority of the citizens of Sevastopol voted in favor of unification with Russia in the referendum (50-80%)" and that "in Crimea, various data show that 50-60% voted for unification with Russia, with a turnout of 30-50%".[134] On 7 May the Council stated that the report was not an official position of the Council.[135]

Mustafa Dzhemilev, a recent Chairman of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People, reports that according to his sources the actual turn-up was only 32.4%.[136] Mejlis Deputy Chairman Akhtem Chiygoz argued that voter turnout in the referendum among Crimeans did not exceeded 30–40 percent.[12]

Andrey Illarionov, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and a former Russian government adviser, cited polls showing the Crimean support for joining Russia between 23 and 41 percent to conclude that the actual support was closer to 34 percent and that at least two thirds of Crimea did not vote for it. He called the referendum "grossly rigged falsification" and the outcome "cynically distorted".[13]

The results of the survey by the Broadcasting Board of Governors, conducted 21–29 April 2014, showed that 83% of Crimeans felt that the results of the March 16 referendum on Crimea’s status likely reflected the views of most people there. However, this view is shared only by 30% in the rest of Ukraine.[137]

The election was a Sham and illegal.
Russian invaded Ukraine and illegally annexed Ukrainian territory.
Russia lied from day to support their ""justification" which has since changed at every other press conference Putin gives.


Your own sources cast doubt on your claim.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Your own sources cast doubt on your claim.

And what claim is that? That 93% of the turnout voted yes, is that the one?

originally posted by: Agit8dChop
This thread belongs in the bin.

Its obviously a lie and has turned into nothing but a b*tch fight.

I point people to this site for quality debate and they see this crap?.. how embarrassing!

Question -
What is a person suppose to do when something is posted that is less than truthful? Those who post will defend it regardless and those against will defend their position.

Is that not what a debate is?

By not engaging it allows a position possibly based on lies to lone voice with nothing to say - uhm no, not quite.

What would you suggest?

a reply to: Xcathdra

your right.....but I am tired. The shill is being paid to do this..I am not...



maybe another time...

originally posted by: Khurzon
a reply to: Xcathdra

your right.....but I am tired. The shill is being paid to do this..I am not...



maybe another time...

No I ain't, just for the pleasure of doing it

a reply to: sosobad

Nationalism then? Patriot to the Mother?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Even th3e Russian government has stated the report was false and apologized for it.

Nice try that article was actually posted on some Pro Ukrainian forces websites and made look as if it was that Russian government has stated the report was false.

originally posted by: Khurzon
a reply to: sosobad

Nationalism then? Patriot to the Mother?

Don't really get on with my mother, what does she have to do with this?

originally posted by: sosobad

And what claim is that? That 93% of the turnout voted yes, is that the one?

That the number 93% reflects illegal activity in order for Russia and Pro Russians to "win" the referendum. As stated before, Putin's own Presidential Council stated the numbers released for Crimea were made up -
Putin's 'Human Rights Council' Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results

Official Kremlin results: 97 percent of polled voters for annexation, turnout 83 percent, and 82 percent of total Crimean population voting in favor.

President’s Human Rights Council mid-point estimate: 55 percent of polled voters for annexation, turnout 40 percent, 22.5 percent of total Crimean population voting in favor.

A member of the Human Rights Council, Svetlana Gannushkina, talked about election fraud on Kanal 24 (as replayed on Ukrainian television), declaring that the Crimean vote “discredited Russia more than could be dreamed up by a foreign agent.”

The link is from Forbes, contains the original article information, the website source reporting it, as well as corrections made when new information came out.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: Xcathdra

Your own sources cast doubt on your claim.

And what claim is that? That 93% of the turnout voted yes, is that the one?

That the number 93% reflects illegal activity in order for Russia and Pro Russians to "win" the referendum. As stated before, Putin's own Presidential Council stated the numbers released for Crimea were mPutin's 'Human Rights Council' Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results

Official Kremlin results: 97 percent of polled voters for annexation, turnout 83 percent, and 82 percent of total Crimean population voting in favor.

President’s Human Rights Council mid-point estimate: 55 percent of polled voters for annexation, turnout 40 percent, 22.5 percent of total Crimean population voting in favor.

A member of the Human Rights Council, Svetlana Gannushkina, talked about election fraud on Kanal 24 (as replayed on Ukrainian television), declaring that the Crimean vote “discredited Russia more than could be dreamed up by a foreign agent.”

The link is from Forbes, contains the original article information, the website source reporting it, as well as corrections made when new information came out.

Well if it comes from forbes it's gotta be true, this ever been verified? Apart from yourself and forbes?

originally posted by: sosobad
Well if it comes from forbes it's gotta be true, this ever been verified? Apart from yourself and forbes?

Maybe if you read the article and explored the links contained you would have your answer now wouldn't you.

yes the information has been verified.

unlike the results of the Crimean elections.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Allegations of Fraud, Allegations of Fraud , Allegations of Fraud
There will be always an Allegations of Fraud whatever or not whom they vote for in this case people largely voted for independence but according to you And Western MSM there is an Allegations of Fraud just because Crimea had voted for independence Unlike Ukraine whom hasn't led her people have an referendum on the EU.


If there was an referendum on the EU in Ukraine there wont be an Majority. But an minority.

By the way your citing Wikipedia.

The election was a Sham and illegal. Russian invaded Ukraine and illegally annexed Ukrainian territory.

Nope it wasn't.

I guess what EU and NATO are doing isn't annexing at all. By the way at the same source.

Andrey Illarionov, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and a former Russian government adviser, cited polls showing the Crimean support for joining Russia between 23 and 41 percent to conclude that the actual support was closer to 34 percent and that at least two thirds of Crimea did not vote for it. He called the referendum "grossly rigged falsification" and the outcome "cynically distorted".[13]

CATO is not an institute to be trusted with.

Source CATO

Ha reply to: Xcathdra

He has a point about forbes.

yes the information has been verified.
According to Think Tanks and Former ambs. Yes i am quite sure they are very reliable.