Hobby Lobby wins Supreme Court case, limits the ACA contraception mandate

a reply to: buster2010

$3 trillion? That's about how much we have wasted on the war on terror.

That's one of the best cop-outs I heard today so far !!!

Hope springs eternal.

This Hobby Lobby sure has people in a guff.

Is it *REALLY* this complicated ?

The U.S. Constitution is being challenged in unprecedented fashion.

And it looks like some people can actually reverse that ultra-Progressive onslaught.

a reply to: xuenchen

What? I believe in markets... free markets, not the corporate markets you support.

While it's definitely a good decision, I'm afraid it opens the door for any corporation to deny certain health coverage based on 'religious' beliefs (ie it'll their our costs down) and that's where it becomes a problem. Hobby Lobby is obviously a small family owned business, so I agree with the decision. But where's the limit? Can bigger companies Chick Fil A now refuse coverage for things like birth control because their founder was Christian? Is this opening the door for companies to deny employment based on religious beliefs? I don't know. This seems like it could potentially cause a LOT of problems for women.

originally posted by: Kali74

What? I believe in markets... free markets, not the corporate markets you support.

originally posted by: Kali74
Single payer would fix so much wrong associated with health care.
But nooooo...

Maybe I mis-understood?

Confusion indeed.

originally posted by: Kali74
Single payer would fix so much wrong associated with health care.
But nooooo...

Single payer ANYTHING would did so much wrong. Healthcare, social security/retirement, unemployment, welfare...... Can you imagine if the only benefits anyone got were the ones they had to pay into themselves? Suddenly a lot of disabled people would miraculously be able to work.....

a reply to: MsSmith

Hobby Lobby is obviously a small family owned business

Hobby Lobby has 572 stores! Doesn't sound like a small "mom and pop" shop to me!

originally posted by: MsSmith
Hobby Lobby is obviously a small family owned business, so I agree with the decision.

Have you lost it completely or were you just being funny with that statement???

This is from the Hobby Lobby Corp. website.
Hobby Lobby - Our Company

Today, Hobby Lobby is considered a leader in the arts and crafts industry. We have 572 stores across the nation that average 55,000 square feet and offer more than 67,000 crafting and home decor products. Hobby Lobby is listed as a major private corporation in Forbes and Fortunes list of America's largest private companies, and our company carries no long-term debt.

Yeah, just a little mom and pop company.

Why would anyone even think that is beyond me. What made you think they are some little company in the first place???

a reply to: xuenchen

I don't think we'd need to single payer through the government if suppliers were disallowed to gouge prices. Single people or families could just buy healthcare on their own.

This is all complete rubbish! What if Hobby Lobby decides they don't like vaccines ? An intelligent person would say that, that would be imposing a major public health risk. We know that the CDC, WHO, most health professionals and much of the public would put that away quite quickly. I see many religious beliefs whose cherry picking of health benefits would cause public outcry.

Why is unwanted pregnancy not a public health concern? Give me one good reason how poverty and abuse does not impact society? Too many have a moral righteous attitude that pregnancy should be a punishment and we can just snub our nose and look the other way, when in fact it's going to bite you all in the a##.

I would like to quote a comment I saw on Think Progress
" "You see Hobby Lobby, it works like this: pills cost less than babies. So if I'm your health insurance company I'm getting ready to raise your premiums anywhere from 20% to 35%. So go ahead and hold onto your religious beliefs. Your insurance company is going to hold on to their belief that higher claims mean higher premiums. And good luck when you shop your coverage and tell any new carrier you don't want to cover contraceptives, but maternity coverage is okay. Think you'll get lower rates? Be careful what you wish for. It's called the Law of Unintended Consequences"

Here's another tidbit.

Hobby Lobby is not legally required to compensate its employees with health insurance at all. The regulations imposed by the ACA are on insurance plans, not on the corporations per se. What is erroneously described as a “mandate” simply means that if corporations choose to take advantage of the tax benefits for compensating employees in health insurance rather than wages, the insurance has to meet minimum coverage standards. As is often the case with specious religious freedom arguments, the corporation wants it both ways, to get the tax benefits without providing the full benefits to employees. And if the corporation wanted to argue they have no practical choice but to offer coverage, then according to the logic of their own arguments, the religion of the managers is not being burdened; they’re not paying for the contraception or making the decision to include it in insurance plans.

Source

As far as the religious aspect goes, It wasn't that long ago (2008) the church believed that having AIDS was better than using condoms... this is why religion needs to kept in it's proper place : their own little private clubs(churches) where they can be as draconian as they want with each-other, but not out combing through their 10000 rules they like to cherry pick at their own convenience, to place barriers on the health and welfare of others.

I'd like to see ONE person...just ONE come forward and tell me they and their partner have not utilized birth control. I would like to know if pregnancy and popping out children was just a walk in the park why in the world would you use contraceptives? Everybody knows they're a hypocrite when they justify why it's okay to create barriers to family planning on any level.

How can people dictate from something that is proven false?

I stopped by to see my Jewish friend, oh how I have gotten an education here! I was always an Atheist but now I know so much more.

"Christianity" is false and this is historically proven! Even the Catholic Church knows, they keep it on the down low, so as not to lose control. They invented the whole thing! There was no "Jesus". It's all a lie.

My friend gave me books to read, all this info is online now too. I don't understand why this hasn't gone away? It is PROVEN to be false.

Friend says: Jews know it, Free Masons know it, and this is why Fascists are so against these groups, because they do know the truth. And it's now online for all to see.

So how can it be that people are allowed to dictate to others from proven false lies?

Isn't this illegal somehow?

And maybe why "Church and State" are kept separate? How can one operate off of a lie, and dictate to others? This must be illegal in some way.

originally posted by: dawnstar

So well obama will probably use his executive power and the gov't (taxpayer) will provide the coverage instead!!
One big leap for the businesses their rights to their religious beliefs are now superior to the taxapayer!!

And rightfully so.

The First Amendment of the Bill of Rights guarantees the free exercise of one's religion - it does not guarantee that the taxpayer won't have to foot the bill for foolish expenses by the government.

It's the ballot box that guarantees that... if properly exercised.

originally posted by: FalseMove
How can people dictate from something that is proven false?

I stopped by to see my Jewish friend, oh how I have gotten an education here! I was always an Atheist but now I know so much more.

"Christianity" is false and this is historically proven! Even the Catholic Church knows, they keep it on the down low, so as not to lose control. They invented the whole thing! There was no "Jesus". It's all a lie.

My friend gave me books to read, all this info is online now too. I don't understand why this hasn't gone away? It is PROVEN to be false.

Friend says: Jews know it, Free Masons know it, and this is why Fascists are so against these groups, because they do know the truth. And it's now online for all to see.

So how can it be that people are allowed to dictate to others from proven false lies?

Isn't this illegal somehow?

And maybe why "Church and State" are kept separate? How can one operate off of a lie, and dictate to others? This must be illegal in some way.

Well this one takes today's Blue Ribbon for Tangents.

So far at least.

You realize the U.S. Constitution would have to be changed to make today's ruling "illegal".

My GAAAAwd !!

originally posted by: roadgravel
Very limited though.

Wonderful these religious people out protesting this issue but let the war on terror continue without a word. I suppose there is good killing and bad killing.

Yes.

There is good killing and there is bad killing, even the law recognizes that in it's distinction between "Murder", "Manslaughter", and "Justifiable Homicide".

If someone breaks into your home and exterminates your family for no good reason, that is a "bad" killing. If, instead, you intercept the interlopers, set them on fire, and throw them back out, that is a "good" killing.

If you can't understand the distinction, then I probably can't help you, and your family should be worried.

originally posted by: paleorchid13
This is all complete rubbish! What if Hobby Lobby decides they don't like vaccines ?

I'll just stop you right here.

If Hobby Lobby decides they don't like vaccines?

Get them yourself!

My god!

Has society become so helpless that no-one can do anything on their own?

originally posted by: buster2010

It also says in the reason why I think they should lose this case.

Speaking on "Fox News Sunday," House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte, R-Va., also said he's hopeful the court will "uphold the rights of individuals for their expression of their religious freedoms."

Hobby Lobby is a company not a person so it should not have religious freedoms. Not to mention if they did find in their favor it would be opening the door for religious discrimination in every company across the nation.

The First Amendment does not say "unless you are a company". It's there to limit governmental interference in religious matters. In other words, it's there to restrict the government, and governmental entities, not to restrict non-governmental entities.

If your Union decides to make it mandatory for the membership to worship guard rails, then there is nothing the government can do about that, since the union is not a governmental entity. If the government, on the other hand, tries to make it mandatory for all citizens to worship guard rails, there is the First Amendment to restrict government from doing that.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
This ruling sets a precedence such that a business owner's religion can exempt the business from obeying the law. It will set up cases where a business owner's religious "rights" are pitted against a person's religious rights. For example, a Jewish business owner doesn't believe in the religious teachings of Christianity and doesn't want to be forced to hire or serve Christians.

The result will be that businesses with enough money to fight their case in court will be the ones who can take "advantage" of it. Only the wealthy.

When the Christians start complaining that Muslims are discriminating against them, we can point to this case. When a Muslim business owner fires someone for bringing a BLT for his lunch, we can point to the Hobby Lobby precedent that they rejoiced over. People aren't seeing any further than their nose on this case...

Welcome to the plutocracy and theocracy that we all know is coming.

I logged in just to star this post. Once the right uncouples their distaste for Obama, they're gonna wake up terrified that corporations are not only people, but religious ones now. To quote Mr. Carlin "Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers".

originally posted by: nenothtu

If someone breaks into your home and exterminates your family for no good reason, that is a "bad" killing. If, instead, you intercept the interlopers, set them on fire, and throw them back out, that is a "good" killing.

So with the US killing innocent families in their homes in the Middle East (Bad Killing), it would be, by your rationale, "Good Killing" for them to start setting the US on fire and throwing them back out, correct???

originally posted by: MOMof3
Congratulations! And to the Muslims, Mormons, and Jehovah Witnesses. Sharia law for you daughters and sons in the workplace, is on its way.

I've got news for you - it's already here.

The little mom-n-pop shop down the street from me is owned and operated by Muslims. It closes every day from 1pm to 2 pm for prayer observance. I don't have a problem with that - it's THEIR shop, not mine - but there are evidently a great number of people in this thread who do.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It feels like religious people are forcing their beliefs onto the unwilling.

That is exactly what is happening. The owners of HL is forcing their employees to live by their religious beliefs.

Religious freedom, as protected in the first amendment, is for PEOPLE

Good luck getting the five idiots on the Supreme Court to understand this.

No, the owners of hobby lobby are not trying to prohibit their employees from using contraceptions or abortion services. They are just refusing to pay for it. GET OUT OF MY HEALTH INSURANCE.... but foot the bill for it.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: paleorchid13
This is all complete rubbish! What if Hobby Lobby decides they don't like vaccines ?

I'll just stop you right here.

If Hobby Lobby decides they don't like vaccines?

Get them yourself!

My god!

Has society become so helpless that no-one can do anything on their own?

sure seems like it, doesn't it.

i didn't realize every woman in the US worked for them, either.

i'm glad HL won.