Ground Zero Cross: Court presses atheist group to explain why artifact is 'offensive'

originally posted by: beezzer
Why do we even have churches anymore?

I mean, those places have crosses on the outside of the buildings!

That really must offend some people as well!

I say we deny freedom and just say shut the hell up, religious people!

Way to make no point whatsoever.

Crosses on churches are on private property (although don't get me started on tax exempt status. heh).

Feel free to have your house or private business made of crosses if you want...just don't tell me to pay some tax dollars so you can put some on the street.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Don't taxes pay for roads?

Aren't roads used to go to church?

Don't churches use roads to spread the word?

If my post is irrelevant and outlandish, it is only to counter the inane banter and anti-religious bullsh!t that I see here!

a reply to: Metallicus

Cause why does your comfort out weigh my discomfort?
I am sure there were plenty of people that fundamentally followed another religion died that day and it they want to visit a scene where there isn't just one religious symbol that might not comfort them but can possibly do the opposite they should have that right.
Easy fix to that is to put up all the religions symbol or start a petition for what religions want there symbol up and have that up for an X amount of time and those that get the signatures get theirs put up.
That way they have a cya and can say they offered a way to get your view represented and if you didn't act then it is on you.

I also want to point out that if a cross is "offensive" then it doesn't really matter where it (a cross) is.

If it is visible, regardless whether on private property or not, it is still deemed "offensive".

Why can't the religious people just get over that there won't be a cross there?
Isn't the " get over it" response a two way street?

a reply to: Metallicus

I would be pleased if there was a appropriate symbol for all faiths there.

A symbol means nothing on its own its just a collection of marks its what it means to you. The crescent moon for Islam back to goddess Isis, Cross to Horus Star of David to Assyria ?(to many moons ago college ) All symbols have a bunch of meanings .

like the swastika to Germany and much of the world means Nazi Germany but to millions of others its good luck or fertility and some meanings go back thousands of years before Hitler.

Some groups are using differences to drive wedges between us and create intolerance with each other .

a reply to: ausername

We were a christian nation.

Not according to the Founding Fathers were weren't. We never have been because our government doesn't promote laws for Christians or any other faith it would be against the Constitution.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: SaturnFX

Don't taxes pay for roads?

Aren't roads used to go to church?

Don't churches use roads to spread the word?

If my post is irrelevant and outlandish, it is only to counter the inane banter and anti-religious bullsh!t that I see here!

Your really reaching now.
Fine..religious symbol at ground zero..but lets make it a giant golden star and crescent...you know..compromise...its all the same, right?
Or a big golden calf.
or we change it based on whatever the majority religion is year to year.

You realize when you stretch logic into the absurd, people generally dismiss you overall as having anything relevant to add.
Roads are not religious..the same road that leads you to a church, also leads you to a strip club, a meth lab, a school, the mall, etc....now stop the absurdity! STOP IT!
Bad rabbit, no carrots!

a reply to: SaturnFX

They, the atheists, deem the cross as offensive.

If they win this case, then they could use this as precedent for displaying the cross ANYWHERE!

Because once a cross is ruled as "offensive" then it doesn't matter where it is displayed. It could be on private property, but if it can been seen and has been ruled as "offensive" then according to law, it'd have to be removed.

I think putting up other religious symbols is be a great idea. What I think people are failing to realize that this particular cross is an authentic piece of the history of what happened in the days following the attacks, Being a part of history it should be preserved.

a reply to: beezzer

Don't taxes pay for roads?

And just how much of those tax dollars came from the church?

If my post is irrelevant and outlandish, it is only to counter the inane banter and anti-religious bullsh!t that I see here!

When it comes to a thread where people don't want to bend over and kiss Christian butt you are the same in all of them. They are anti religion because people don't think tax dollars should be used to promote what is obviously your faith.

a reply to: buster2010

I could care less what your faith is or isn't.

When it restricts mine, I tend to get ouchy.

And when I see potential precedent being initiated here in this case, I will speak up.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: SaturnFX

They, the atheists, deem the cross as offensive.

If they win this case, then they could use this as precedent for displaying the cross ANYWHERE!

Because once a cross is ruled as "offensive" then it doesn't matter where it is displayed. It could be on private property, but if it can been seen and has been ruled as "offensive" then according to law, it'd have to be removed.

No it wouldn't because the ground zero museum isn't private property. The atheist are saying if it uses tax dollars then it shouldn't have a cross and they are right. Just like when courthouses had to remove the ten commandments anything that uses tax dollars cannot support religion no matter what religion.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: buster2010

I could care less what your faith is or isn't.

When it restricts mine, I tend to get ouchy.

And when I see potential precedent being initiated here in this case, I will speak up.

How is this restricting your faith? You get upset every time when people try to keep your faith from being imposed on others against their will. There is no potential precedent here the only place it exists is in your mind.

a reply to: SaturnFX

WELL, they could've just made it what it actually is

a reply to: beezzer

Is it part of your faith to plaster crosses all over the place? How is placing a territorial symbol of Christianity at the 911 Memorial in any way relevant to what happened that day?

How is a common piece of construction engineering, like a steel crossbar found in the ruins, an important artifact to be elevated in memory of the fallen victims of that day? Because it's coincidentally shaped like the torture device that supposed killed your savior, as well as 1000s of others victims, that should mean something in the big 911 picture?

anybody besides me think this atheist vs. christian thing in the usa, is a manufactured crisis? we've been living here together for 200 years and now all the sudden it's a big deal that we have different world views. i know there have been problems in the past as well but nothing like recently. i guess what's happening is our nation is being made aware that the atheists of country who are voicing their displeasure, are just fed up with religion. but it really isn't religion in general quite yet. first, they want to make the argument between the largest religious group in the country -- christians and atheists. the other folks will come later.

a reply to: Fargoth

Why is it significant? Cause it was pulled form the wreckage?
I am sure they can find another piece that doesn't resemble and not seen as many as a religious symbol. Why do they need to use the one that has been portrayed as a cross for the past 13 years?

a reply to: windword

the cross originally was a symbol of eternal life that was twisted into an implement of death. it still amazes me that it doesn't dawn on people just how ironic that is.

a reply to: undo

I think it's very engineered. There were a lot less people being offended before they had groups telling them what should offend them, why it should offend them, and that if it offends them it needs to be removed immediately.

That goes for everything IMO, not just religions.

A house divided can not stand.

Mission accomplished.