What are "the gates of Hades"?

a reply to: Rex282
In the teaching of Jesus, there is a real and severe danger that people will fail to enter the kingdom, which is why it needs to be sought earnestly;
"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."- Matthew ch7 vv13-14

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Rex282
In the teaching of Jesus, there is a real and severe danger that people will fail to enter the kingdom, which is why it needs to be sought earnestly;
"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."- Matthew ch7 vv13-14

Everyone is currently "failing" to enter the Kingdom of the creator God.The wide way is the "path" of "your"Belief Systems religion.It will lead to the gate of destruction where it will be destroyed.The narrow path is AFTER the wide path is detsroyed.It leads to "Life".

Yahoshua "destroyed " the disciples religion(by a process) as they became apostles.THEY were the "chosen few"(by Yahoshua himself not be them) that found life(were given) and WERE "growing"(entering) into the Kingdom of God realm(the green pastures).They had not "entered" in yet because they were still a fetus.None have entered into the Kingdom of God realm yet, especially those that still live in the physical realm.

The futility of religion is in fear and doom.The wide path and narrow path are of hope not fear as the religious carnal mind believes.It sees only doom and death where knowing/revelation sees Life.The Kingdom of the creator God is for ALL of mankind…not just the chosen few who will only be the 1st to enter.Nor is it just for the "self chosen" elitist that would deny the entrance to others.They will be the last to enter because they have chosen themselves to be first.

a reply to: Rex282
Your idea seems to be that the wide path is a necessary preliminary to the narrow path, but that is not what Jesus taught.
Jesus is teaching that the wide path is something to be avided, because those who follow it will themselves be destroyed, they will be turned away when they try to enter in at the door of life.
What you are doing is inventing your own religion which has no relation with what Jesus was teaching.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Rex282
Your idea seems to be that the wide path is a necessary preliminary to the narrow path, but that is not what Jesus taught.
Jesus is teaching that the wide path is something to be avided, because those who follow it will themselves be destroyed, they will be turned away when they try to enter in at the door of life.
What you are doing is inventing your own religion which has no relation with what Jesus was teaching.

It is not my idea at all it is what Yahoshua "stated".Yahoshua was not "teaching" religion as you believe.He was stating the Truth of what things are.A man can only "know" the truths by revelation from the Father.It isn't me who is inventing a "religion" of what Yahoshua said it is you inventing your "religion".

What you believe does not harmonize with what Yahoshua stated directly after …..

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Therefore by their fruits you shall know them."

False prophets preach religion of fear and death and unjust punishment that bear no fruit.Yahoshua is Yahweh is salvation..for ALL mankind.The religious believe in their religion that Yahoshua is not the savor (though they say it with their lips) because they "believe" only they will be "saved" not ALL of mankind.They bear no fruit they only sow seeds of death and have been judged as they have judged with the same measure.

Then Yahoshua continues to state the Truth of who is hearing…..

"Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of the heavens; but he that does the will of my Father who is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out demons? and in your name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity."

This is mans religion that "believes" they know the creator God and have "entered" in the Kingdom of the creator God but haven't.They have performed all the rituals and believe in a name however it is not the creator God's name at all.The religious carnal mind believes that Yahoshua is talking to the heathen yet Yahoshua says it is those that have done works in "his name".

He continues on to say "who hears" by revelation from the Father.......

"Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will liken him unto a wise man, who built his house upon a rock:And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand:And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

Revelation is the "rock" a solid house is built upon…not pebbles of sand of mans religion.Yahoshua (nor I) are condemning anyone.Yahoshua is only stating the Truth of what things are that mans nature is religious because they believe through faith in their Belief System religion.Yahoshua is stating mans religion must be destroyed and replaced with revelation from the Father which is what the solid house is built on."

The creator God will destroy your religion of Christianity(and all of your other religions) just as they destroyed your belief in atheism.It is all sand that a house that is built on it cannot "stand" it can only fall.Mans religion IS the realm of imperception but they are blinded by it and cannot see nor hear.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Rex282
Your idea seems to be that the wide path is a necessary preliminary to the narrow path, but that is not what Jesus taught.
Jesus is teaching that the wide path is something to be avided, because those who follow it will themselves be destroyed, they will be turned away when they try to enter in at the door of life.
What you are doing is inventing your own religion which has no relation with what Jesus was teaching.

It is not my idea at all it is what Yahoshua "stated".Yahoshua was not "teaching" religion as you believe.He was stating the Truth of what things are.A man can only "know" the truths by revelation from the Father.It isn't me who is inventing a "religion" of what Yahoshua said it is you inventing your "religion".

What you believe does not harmonize with what Yahoshua stated directly after …..

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Therefore by their fruits you shall know them."

False prophets preach religion of fear and death and unjust punishment that bear no fruit.Yahoshua is Yahweh is salvation..for ALL mankind.The religious believe in their religion that Yahoshua is not the savor (though they say it with their lips) because they "believe" only they will be "saved" not ALL of mankind.They bear no fruit they only sow seeds of death and have been judged as they have judged with the same measure.

Then Yahoshua continues to state the Truth of who is hearing…..

"Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of the heavens; but he that does the will of my Father who is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out demons? and in your name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity."

This is mans religion that "believes" they know the creator God and have "entered" in the Kingdom of the creator God but haven't.They have performed all the rituals and believe in a name however it is not the creator God's name at all.The religious carnal mind believes that Yahoshua is talking to the heathen yet Yahoshua says it is those that have done works in "his name".

He continues on to say "who hears" by revelation from the Father.......

"Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will liken him unto a wise man, who built his house upon a rock:And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand:And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

Revelation is the "rock" a solid house is built upon…not pebbles of sand of mans religion.Yahoshua (nor I) are condemning anyone.Yahoshua is only stating the Truth of what things are that mans nature is religious because they believe through faith in their Belief System religion.Yahoshua is stating mans religion must be destroyed and replaced with revelation from the Father which is what the solid house is built on."

The creator God will destroy your religion of Christianity(and all of your other religions) just as they have destroyed your belief in atheism.It is all sand that a house that is built on it cannot "stand" but can only fall.Mans religion IS the realm of imperception that they are blinded by and cannot see nor hear.

originally posted by: guidetube
I always took it more as a mental prison.
Not believing in God makes life bad, you can break this like a barrier by believing in God.

That can be a starting-point, anyway.
If he is there, then cutting yourself off from him makes life bad, and something must be done to re-establish the relationship.
That's most of the New Testament in a nutshell.
But it's not just about making life bad; it's also about what happens when this life is over.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Text What exactly is Jesus promising when he says about the church “The Gates of Hades shall not prevail against it”? – Matthew ch16 v18

Jewish Publication Society
Psalm 86:13 For great is Thy mercy toward me; and Thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest nether-world.

1611 KJV
Psalm 86:13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.

The doctrine of the prophets was that Sheol had many compartments and this theology extended into the rabbinic period also. Regardless of what terminology you use the meaning is the same from the Jewish bible to the Christian bible and that is that Sheol, Hell, nether world is all the same.

The theology is that in this Nether world of Sheol or Hell there are seven spaces each lower than the other. In some rabbinic philosophy there is Sheol, Abaddon, Beer Shabat, Sha’are Mawet, Sha’are Zalmwet, Gehenna, and Arka. Each placement has a gate and angelic guards at each gate. This philosophy dictates that there are degrees of punishment for the unrighteous but I won’t go into that philosophy here.

Now reread Psalms 86:13 and you will then understand that this philosophy was in your biblical prophets and did spill over into the rabbinic as well as Christian philosophy. Just as New Jerusalem has twelve gates which are also guarded by the angelic host, so hell has seven gates. The Roman Christians adopted this belief from the first Jewish Christians and also adopted the escape clause in which an unrighteous person can be punished and purified (cleansed) and released into the kingdom of God.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Upon this rock. What rock? Does that mean upon this revelation of Me (Jesus) being the Christ and Son of God? Wasn’t that the revelation in the previous verse? Remember that as this was being said by Jesus that all spirits of all people dwelt within these seven nether world compartments. There was nothing more available at this time. The kingdom of heaven was not given while Jesus was alive.

What does all of this mean to me as I read this? It means to me that when Jesus died that He descended first into this nether world and released the righteous captives from this prison and placed them into the celestial realm. This fulfilled His teaching that these gates of hell will not prevail against His church meaning that those righteous who were in hell were also part of His church and that these gates of hell will not prevail over His church. Moses was in one of these seven sections and Moses was well spoken of by Jesus. This shows me that Moses is as much part of His church as any one. Hell could not prevent the release of Moses. This applies to all of the righteous.

You cannot understand this as you understand church denominations today. You must understand that this was prophecy as Jesus was alive. The church denominations of today may or may not be that of what Jesus references in this case. I guess it is all a matter of how you are given understanding.

a reply to: Seede
In several respects, this is not so far different from what I was saying.
I was understanding the question in terms of getting out of the realm of death.
Regarding the number of gates, though, Jesus does simplify the picture. If you're focussing on getting into a place or getting out of a place, you don't really need more than one gate in the image and that's what Jesus talks about.

We agree on understanding the previous revelation about the person of Jesus as the key to the whole action.
However, I think you're underestimating the point that something is being offered to the disciples in front of him.
You focus on what the mediaeval church called "the harrowing of Hell", the retrieval by Jesus of the Old Testament faithful, but surely the point of this episode is that getting people out of Hades and into the kingdom is an on-going and continuing process after that.

Text You focus on what the mediaeval church called "the harrowing of Hell", the retrieval by Jesus of the Old Testament faithful, but surely the point of this episode is that getting people out of Hades and into the kingdom is an on-going and continuing process after that.

Yes that is a very good point but not quite as I understand this. I actually have no denominational obligations and maybe that is a disadvantage for my understanding. I don't understand people getting out of Hades as ongoing. I realize that perhaps some organized religions will believe this but I do not. My understanding is that a spirit of a soul will be judged immediately after death and in consciousness be either in the nether world or in the New Jerusalem.

My understanding is that all spirits are judged only once and I see nothing in the doctrine of Christ Jesus to even imply that any one can escape hell. By this I am led to believe that getting people out of Hades and into New Jerusalem is not an ongoing and continuing process. I am led to believe that as Christ Jesus died and presented Himself to the righteous who were in the confines of the nether world this was a one time gathering of the righteous from this nether world.

As you look carefully at this purification doctrine which allows a spirit to receive a second chance for eternal life then God would have to give all spirits the same advantage. The NT scriptures tell us that God is no respecter of people, meaning that what you sow in this life is what you reap in the afterlife. If there were a second chance after death It would negate the need for hardly anyone to face the second death of the lake of fire. Would not almost all evil people take advantage of this doctrine while in this life knowing that there is a second chance on the table after death?

I may be wrong in my understanding so give me more to chew on. God Bless
I will have to look at this purgatory doctrine a little more but I simply cannot bend my mind around this at all.

a reply to: Seede
You misunderstand my intention. I'm not arguing for any kind of purgatory at all.
The suggestion being put over the two threads (this one, and the previous thread about the keys of the kingdom) is that the church is being commissioned to present the gospel about Christ.
The argument is that we enter into the kingdom of life (and thus escape the realm of death) through the medium of the gospel.
When Jesus said "let the dead bury their dead", he was distinguishing between those who had escaped the realm of death and entered the kingdom (his own followers) and those who had not.
Those who believe in Christ have entered eternal life ALREADY, and continue in it.

That is why Jesus is saying these things to the disciples at Caesarea Philippi.
He is saying "Evidently you understand the truth about me. The truth about me is what people need to enter the kingdom. Therefore I commission you to present the truth about me and thus enable them to enter the kingdom".
The "on-going process" which I was talking about is the presentation of the gospel, by which people enter the kingdom within this life.

Text That is why Jesus is saying these things to the disciples at Caesarea Philippi. He is saying "Evidently you understand the truth about me. The truth about me is what people need to enter the kingdom. Therefore I commission you to present the truth about me and thus enable them to enter the kingdom". The "on-going process" which I was talking about is the presentation of the gospel, by which people enter the kingdom within this life. a reply to: DISRAELI

Very good Desraeli and I agree with what you have explained. It takes me some time to understand these things so forgive my dense understanding. I do take things too literal and can't see the forest because of the trees. That's why I asked for more to chew on. You make sense to me and had never understood that in that manner. Thank you -- God Bless

I should go ahead and mention what I said in the Keys of the Kingdom thread, that "the Gates of Hell" comment in Matthew by Jesus was a reference to what happened (of course it hadn't happened yet when he said it, but may have by the time the gospel was written) to the former kingdom, being physically destroyed with fire by the Romans.
That happened in 70 AD under Titus in command of the Legions there in Palestine in a situation that quickly escalated when rebels gained entry into Jerusalem and then made efforts to keep the Romans from entering.
This can be studied in detail by reading the account by Josephus in the book, The Wars of the Jews.

Fire any type of flame anywhere is a Gateway!

a reply to: jmdewey60
I think I answered this line of argument in advance in the opening paragraphs.
You're assuming that "the gates of Hades" means an attacking force.
Can you not see what is wrong with that mental picture?
When did you ever see gates attacking anything?
When the Allied armies launched the Normandy landings, were the ships and planes bombarding the beaches with sets of gates?

Gates are like doors.Their function is to control entrance and exit. So our understanding of "the gates of Hades" needs to be in terms of entrance and exit.

Your picture of the situation is the wrong way round. Never in the field of human conflict have gates ever attacked rocks; but any mediaeval general worth his salt knew how to use a rock to break down a gate.

a reply to: DISRAELI

You're assuming that "the gates of Hades" means an attacking force.

No, I'm taking it as a destroying fire.

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
(2011 NIV)

When did you ever see gates attacking anything?

Numbers 16:31-33
As soon as he finished saying all this, the ground under them split apart
and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them and their households, and all those associated with Korah, together with their possessions.
They went down alive into the realm of the dead (Sheol), with everything they owned; the earth closed over them, and they perished and were gone from the community.
(2011 NIV)

originally posted by: jmdewey60
No, I'm taking it as a destroying fire.

This is a distinction without any real difference. A destroying fire is still a kind of attacking force.
My point about the wrongness of the image still stands. Many cities have been destoyed by fire, but this fire has never been delivered by the gates of their enemies. That is not what gates do. It is not what gates are for.

The story of Korah does not show Sheol as a destroying fire. Sheol is simply a location, the place where the dead are kept.
The gates of Sheol would be what keeps them in (or a metaphor for the fact that they don't get out).

I pose the question again; which mental picture is more plausible?
A set of gates attacking a rock (hopping along the ground or doing cartwheels)?
Or a rock breaking through a set of gates?
I think the picture in this verse is the more likely to be the second.

a reply to: DISRAELI

The gates of Sheol would be what keeps them in (or a metaphor for the fact that they don't get out).

That's not evidence.
That is your conclusion.

Obviously Jesus was using a metaphor.
Metaphors are never perfect, otherwise they would not be metaphors.
What he was using was close enough to make the point.
Especially if you were someone reading this in 71 AD.

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originally posted by: jmdewey60
Obviously Jesus was using a metaphor...close enough to make the point.

Not very close at all. The word "gates" and the concept of "aggression" are very distant from each other, far enough to be misleading.
If Jesus wanted to suggest "aggressive attack", there are other words he could have used, like DUNAMAI. There was no need for him to employ such an essentially passive word as "gates".
You can't even claim that "gates of Hades" was a conventional phrase being used automatically; this reference is almost unique in the Bible, and the nearest parallel is "I am consigned to the gates of Sheol" (Isaiah ch38 v10), which is obviously about "gates" as enclosing a location.

What I am doing is following the normal train of thought associated with gates and doors.
I put it to you that images of gates and doors are ALWAYS associated with enclosed spaces, either allowing or impeding entrances and exits.
The common-sense approach is to interpret "gates of Hades" in the same way.

a reply to: adjensen
A stimulating thought, but it's way past my bed-time!
I shall have to set the alarm, or listen to the catch-up.