Should people be ashamed or proud of getting hired because of race?

There are many quotas for different things including race, but should people be proud or should they be ashamed of getting hired because of race? For instance from: A Profile of Craig Charles from th Independent
(Not that Charles has ever experienced overt racial prejudice in the industry. "It actually worked in my favour. When I started, Lenny Henry was the only black mainstream performer. You couldn't have just one - or people would start talking. The fact that I was a Scouser as well meant they got two minorities for the price of one. They instantly filled their quotas.)

see link www.independent.co.uk...

Ok top marks to the man for being open about things, and a lesser man would have avoided mentioning it and lets face it being in entertainment he is in a stronger position than most to mention it. But if people had to choose, should they be proud or ashamed of being hired because of race?

I'm not sure anybody should be proud of being hired for anything other than ability, loyalty, etc. I would not want to find out that I had been hired because they needed an extra whatever on staff. I would be pissed in fact. Just like I have been pissed when I have been passed over for jobs because it was ASSumed that I couldn't do the job that needed to be done because of my size.

Everybody should be hired on their ability to do the job the best out of all the applicants. Nothing more, nothing less.

When Ive hired nursing staff in past I hired purely on qualifications and experience along with willingness to work in places most wouldnt set foot in .. often was understaffed as few were willing to work in the areas I set up and ran clinics in.

And yes the pc crowd tried to fine me over my hiring practices .. sent them a nice letter telling them of a warm holiday destination they could go to and never have paid the fines as I refuse to pay extortion to anyone .

Always worked for myself at times had benefactors who donated medical supplies and equipment .. race had nothing to do with it rather my skill as a physician/surgeon that was willing to work in warzones and disaster areas around the world providing treatment to any who needed it often it was civilians caught in the middle of the idiocy.

If your not qualified to do a job dont whinge if you dont get hired go get the education and qualifications rather than whinging you didnt get hired .. as to race theres only the human race.

Probably not the answer your looking for .. just the experience of a cynical old grouch disgusted with the whinging and pc bovine fecal matter.

Gee, you are lucky if you can get a good job nowadays. No matter what race you are.

originally posted by: Expat888
When Ive hired nursing staff in past I hired purely on qualifications and experience along with willingness to work in places most wouldnt set foot in .. often was understaffed as few were willing to work in the areas I set up and ran clinics in.

And yes the pc crowd tried to fine me over my hiring practices .. sent them a nice letter telling them of a warm holiday destination they could go to and never have paid the fines as I refuse to pay extortion to anyone .

Always worked for myself at times had benefactors who donated medical supplies and equipment .. race had nothing to do with it rather my skill as a physician/surgeon that was willing to work in warzones and disaster areas around the world providing treatment to any who needed it often it was civilians caught in the middle of the idiocy.

If your not qualified to do a job dont whinge if you dont get hired go get the education and qualifications rather than whinging you didnt get hired .. as to race theres only the human race.

Probably not the answer your looking for .. just the experience of a cynical old grouch disgusted with the whinging and pc bovine fecal matter.

wow your statement up to the point you said if your not qualified then don,t bother pissed me off but actually when i read back and saw the whole paragraph pissed me off even more,its like saying i,m skilled but have to be an arse about it,i want praise for what i do more than these people that don,t have to do uni for 4 or 5 year to get to the same level.

cause you had to go through training mean that these employees are less skilled?

a reply to: sparky31

I dont think he meant anything bad by it. I got the impression it was his experience that he has been through and he was just giving his half. No harm no foul. I think some jobs require just getting your feet wet and experiencing failure in order to succeed. However I do think many jobs that require years of schooling such as a surgeon as he said, is for good reason. OP I think alot of people apply for jobs that they dont qualify for whether it be experience or schooling. Some people hate to start from the bottom and feel they are entitled to everything. My father had to lay some people off due to the mandate from the company he works for. One female of a different race tried to claim racism against him for it, which led to an idiotic investigation that turned up nothing...

a reply to: werewolf99

Proud or ashamed? Good sir!
The world is not as black and white as you might think

Perhaps if I were going to just give some overt one word answer, I'd go with Annoyed.
You're getting a job, but it is not because you are skilled- it is because of the way you look.

We go through this all the time with jobs. If you don't "look" the part, you will rarely ever be hired.
All we can hope for is that we are deserved by our skillset and not ethnicity or attractiveness.

Affirmative action is racism. It is telling someone they can have a job as a make up factor to the fact they are of an inferior race. That they could not achieve this accomplishment on their own merit. Insulting as hell in my opinion.

Example: I think if someone went from a minimum wage job to one that pays say 15 dollars an hour they'd be proud of the fact they were making more. They might not be proud of the fact that their race played a role but the reality is in the end they got a better job. I doubt they'd be protesting in the streets.

Most people would take a better job regardless if it was an unfair process that looked at something beside skill and loyalty in the hiring process.

They'd probably even be proud of their new position. Never taking into account they got it for reasons outside of their own personal assets.

Unfair reasons.

That is the nature of things I suppose.

Please don't construe this comment as racist. The best hard workers I have had the experience of dealing with were illegal Mexican immigrants. I worked with a man in his 70's, about 5'6", that could carry 4 100lb sacks of concrete on his shoulders all day, and never lost his smile. Via con Dios Papa.

I think you should be ashamed if the only reason you got a job was because of your race.

I quit a job here in Arizona because I found out I was hired only because I was white when there were far more qualified Mexican guys bypassed and everybody knew it. It made me feel ashamed.

But maybe that's just me?

a reply to: werewolf99

I don't think this is any different than:

Hiring based on appearance.
Hiring based on weight.
Where you went to school.
The history of your family.
Your education not your experience.
Hiring based on gender.
Hiring based on age.

The crazy part is the person doing the hiring often times knows little of your job, they just know what the boss wants. Hiring people is a crapshoot at best. Everyone stretches the truth on their resume, you meet them on their best day, dressed their best, with their best attitude. It can be difficult to wade through the facade and get to the real person. Due diligence, know what your needs really are, and don't blow smoke up anybodys skirt, start the job and it's interview with the truth.

If it is you in front of the hirer you need to do some due diligence, see what their recidivism rate is, and don't blow smoke up their skirt either, it's ok to sell yourself. But do what you say you can do. Learn something about the company you're interviewing with.

This is one of the things that makes professional sports interesting none of this matters. Can you hit a baseball better than anyone else, can you get to the basket first? Performance is why you're hired to play professional sports.

Just remember bacon will get you to the front of the interview line.

originally posted by: skunkape23
Please don't construe this comment as racist. The best hard workers I have had the experience of dealing with were illegal Mexican immigrants. I worked with a man in his 70's, about 5'6", that could carry 4 100lb sacks of concrete on his shoulders all day, and never lost his smile. Via con Dios Papa.

I don't think that's racist. I think it's a valid observation and one that I have seen myself along with others I know. I think they are pretty much born hard workers as in... they are taught early to work and work hard whereas a lot of Americans think making their teenagers get a job these days is some form of abuse. So when they finally get into the workforce, laziness has been all they have known.

a reply to: werewolf99

it depends, doesn't it...?

if you're some kind of eskimo basket weaver you might be proud of your culture?

if you're marshal mathers sitting in a trailer eating a mayonnaise sammich maybe not?

/shrugs

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe

originally posted by: skunkape23
Please don't construe this comment as racist. The best hard workers I have had the experience of dealing with were illegal Mexican immigrants. I worked with a man in his 70's, about 5'6", that could carry 4 100lb sacks of concrete on his shoulders all day, and never lost his smile. Via con Dios Papa.

I don't think that's racist. I think it's a valid observation and one that I have seen myself along with others I know. I think they are pretty much born hard workers as in... they are taught early to work and work hard whereas a lot of Americans think making their teenagers get a job these days is some form of abuse. So when they finally get into the workforce, laziness has been all they have known.

Being a ex carwash guy from Southern California, for sure they are the hardest workers, their wives make the best food, and even when I was healthy they could work me under the table any day. So many of them got the American dream as well through their own hard work, nobody gave it to them. Nothing racist about it, I have many years of personal experience.

a reply to: caterpillage

It is telling someone they can have a job as a make up factor to the fact they are of an inferior race. That they could not achieve this accomplishment on their own merit.

Though I agree with you in spirit ... sometimes, it is what it is. What has been seen, cannot be unseen.

I have a tendency to laugh right in the face of supervisors who fall in for this. When they complain later (and they always do) ... _that's_ when I get in their face for the second time and ask them, "Who's the racist now?"

ETA: To be very clear, if you only hire qualified people, you don't have to try and cover your tracks later. Doing 'favors' comes at a cost and IMVHO is _never_ worth it.

Well it helps to understand how it all works. There's no quotas. There's tax incentives for business owners/companies to hire minorities (color, gender, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability). No one is required to hire x numbers of y. Now, I highly doubt most business owners are going to hire just anyone tax incentive or not... they still look for the most qualified candidates otherwise that tax incentive means squat, as it costs to have incompetent employees.

originally posted by: Kali74
Well it helps to understand how it all works. There's no quotas. There's tax incentives for business owners/companies to hire minorities (color, gender, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability). No one is required to hire x numbers of y. Now, I highly doubt most business owners are going to hire just anyone tax incentive or not... they still look for the most qualified candidates otherwise that tax incentive means squat, as it costs to have incompetent employees.

I thought this as well until I moved to Williamsburg, Virginia. Eat at any pancake house, you are likely to get something completely different than you ordered. My wife explained to me it was to help foreign students learn english. Then the truth came out in the gazette, tax incentives. HA I laughed see... Now I have to make my own pancakes.

Artificial hiring is what I call it when we have to have X number of this and X number of that. What anyone who works wants are colleagues who can do the job and be a colleague.

a reply to: werewolf99

Neither. Free will drove you to apply and has laid all the groundwork to get you to the point where you were in a position to take advantage of the opportunity. Nothing immoral from your standpoint.

What you do and say from this point on is what matters. Sounds like you may be in a position to influence the moral composition of the future. That is what is important.