TU-22 Armed w/Cruise Missile over Baltic pic

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: neversaynever

Actually i'm not American i'm British, and as long as our Ballistic Submarines are quieter and technologically superior to any antiquated Russian designs I imagine we are quite safe from any Russian sabre waving in our direction.

Check Yasen (Graney) Class and also check Borei (The Project 955) class submarines.
Come back with comments.

a reply to: neversaynever

Just have to say that I doesn't matter what hardware you possess you will not win in a conventional manner against a enemy you can't Identify the 3rd world nation Afghanistan USSR got it handed to them in there to we can fight a enemy in uniform who fights with professionalism as its put but no nation will ever win against one who's people are motivated and no the way of the land and culture for that matter better then anyone else wo steps foot there from the outside world, As for the Tech all sides have advantages US/West are one of the best equipped and effective fighting force and the only reason why Russia is strong again is because they have Nukes or otherwise we the west would have gone further Eastwards If the US had the means and quantity to do so this would of happened at the proclaimed end of the 2nd world war, the reason why I say proclaimed is because we never left the 1st world war nd the upcoming war will be an addition to this...

Either way we are all average people who will be fighting a war for the politicians or who ever you think is in charge they will continue lying while we continue dying its as simple as that and they rely on differences amongst us to exploit us to make their gains, you won't see them on the battlefield and when/if you come home you will get a piece of metal saying well done sorry about the loss of limb and mental scars but well done

originally posted by: Maxatoria
a reply to: andy06shake

They don't need a fighter that can go toe to toe all they need is a missile that can do it and something to get it within range and job done and you don't need to spend billions on development

Exactly in the end its all about the tactics.

a reply to: FlyingFox

Russia is in the process of returning some to flight, and modernizing the rest.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: neversaynever

Sorry, how many Submarines has the United Kingdom lost in comparison to the Soviet Union outside of armed conflict?

LoL

Even the mighty USA plays catch up in some respects to British submariners and their respective boats!

The British navy alone has lost four in peacetime since 1945 HMS Truculent (sank following a collision 1950) HMS Affray (foundered near les îles anglo-normandes 1951) HMS Sidon (torpedo explosion, sank in harbor 1955) HMS Artemis (electrical/flooding mishap, sank in harbor 1971). In addition there have been numerous accidents & system failures on board British submarines in peacetime, when men have been injured or killed. All that in a navy which has exceptionally great safety systems, reliablities & sailor training.

Other OTAN/NATO navies have similar outcomes for their submarine services, the last marine nationale (Fr) losses were submarine Minerve in 1968, lost at sea with no trace found, submarine Eurydice in 1970 following a catastrophe explosion, all men lost.

The USN has lost four too, USS Cochino (sunk by explosion off Norway 1949) USS Stickelback (loss following collision off Hawaii 1958) USS Thresher (1963, various theories about loss including electrics & pipework failures) USS Scorpion 1968 (sank in the Atlantic, reason not determined).

So. I don't think we should criticize Russian submarines too much, for there but for God's grace go we.

Planes are not the thing to worry about. The thing to truly be scared of is nuclear armed subs and Russia has at least one of those bad boys sitting in the Gulf right about now. Granted, all the countries with nuclear armed subs have them positioned accordingly but still it is mind numbing to know how fast our coasts could be hit. Anybody's coasts.


Also: ETA does anybody wonder if we will ever see another war with brave men in uniform standing up against one another?? It seems the only wars of late are pretty much the equivalent of smoking rats out of their holes, and then they run under the next nearest hole.

originally posted by: neversaynever
Ahh a while back, was it your british sub that hit the french one or the other way round? Superior subs yip.. Second was it not Russia who shot dow a f117 stealth plane when they were not even supposed to exist.[/post]

I remember that. That was in the Cracker Yoguslavia.

One plane, wow.

a reply to: FlyingFox

What allies?

Or are you referring to the east bloc / east european countries the Soviet Union occupied since the end of World War II?

As for the missile I was under the impression red / orange were training but I could be way off.

a reply to: LeBombDiggity

That doesn't include the collisions that occurred between NATO / Soviet ships throughout the cold war.

An incident occurred in 1984 when a Soviet Submarine collided with the USS Kittyhawk (aircraft carrier) in the Pacific. It was routine for navies to try and scare the hell out of / surprise them by popping up in the middle of fleet formations etc.


Your fun Cold War fact of the day - The Soviet / Russian TU-95 bear (turboprop) put out so much noise / vibrations that they could be detected / tracked by the sosus network (hydrophones in the Atlantic / Pacific used to detect submarines etc).

One stealth plane. Meaning send them supposed stealth b2 and f22 yeah see how stealth they really are a reply to: FlyingFox

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: cavtrooper7

Even if we do enter another cold war, Russia will still be playing catch up, they can't even drill for Oil without using our patents. What chance do you think they have of even developing a 5 generation aircraft that rivals our F-22/F-35s?

Slim to none would be my answer.

Being the F117 concept, design and testing started in 1975. The Russian program started around the early 1980's. The Russian research and development for Generation 5 resulted in generation 4 aircraft being upgraded. One of those projects was canceled with one project ongoing.

Russia performed a test flight on the aircraft a year or 2 back however I don't think they are in an active state.

As for technology - It was a Russian scientist who worked out what part of an aircraft has the strongest radar return. The edges around the aircraft is the location. From that point R and D into stealth aircraft was born so the Russians aren't to far behind us.

The only advantage we have comes from flight software, the "radar absorbing paint", vectored thrust etc.

The Chinese introduced one of their generation 5 aircraft however its been suggested the aircraft in question looked like the F22 only and was not considered a true Gen 5 aircraft based on criteria.

The other advantage we have is in the production / deployment area (ours are active / deployed where Russia / China are still doing the testing of their advanced concepts).

Our production of the aircraft is established where as china / Russia are still upgrading construction facilities.

Our pilots have had years to train in a stealth environment where Russia and China have not.

Russia and China are also still in the process of upgrading their militaries to take advantage of the new technology.

originally posted by: neversaynever
One stealth plane. Meaning send them supposed stealth b2 and f22 yeah see how stealth they really are a reply to: FlyingFox

You do understand that the term "stealth" does not mean invisible to radar right? All stealth does is break up the radar, bouncing the radar off the aircraft in multiple directions in order to decrease the radar image.

@ some other comments in the thread
As a side note why do some of you guys get pissed about others and their view on Russia, Putin and their military. You guys do plenty of bashing on the US / EU and NATO. Can anyone explain why you think we should extend respect to Russia and Putin when we don't agree with their actions?

I find it goofy that you guys think its perfectly acceptable to badmouth the west while demanding people don't badmouth Russia / Putin.

Putin is NTAC 2.0 compliant and will always be.

a reply to: Xcathdra

The mathematical formula that allowed them to calculate RCS which directly led to the F-117 came from a Russian. Without it they couldn't have built it.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Xcathdra

The mathematical formula that allowed them to calculate RCS which directly led to the F-117 came from a Russian. Without it they couldn't have built it.

I am confused..

I stated in my post the technology was invented by a Russian.


From my post -
"As for technology - It was a Russian scientist who worked out what part of an aircraft has the strongest radar return. The edges around the aircraft is the location. From that point R and D into stealth aircraft was born so the Russians aren't to far behind us."

a reply to: Xcathdra

It wasn't just the strongest portion that he calculated. It was the ability to calculate the entire RCS, with various shapes. Prior to that stealth was dead in the water, because they couldn't calculate what the radar would see with the different shapes. Once they had his formula, they could predict the right shape for the F-117.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Tomato Tomato.