CA pastor orders Christians to ‘isolate’ LGBT kids and then ‘turn them over to Satan’

originally posted by: LABTECH767
Instead they should pray for them and forgive them ...

Being homosexual isn't something that needs being forgiven ....

a reply to: olaru12

May I suggest that good Christians isolate this Pastor? You know, not share a meal with him, stop funding his work, don't go to his services, and effectively turn him over to his belief in Satan. Then those who would rather love their children unconditionally, share their lives with them, and be a light unto the world rather than a perpetrator of its darkness, can get on with it.

Asking any parent to turn their back on their child is insane. In South America, babies born out of wedlock are, in some places, considered "The Devil's Children" and they will let the child die of neglect out on the street because they've been told to turn them over to the Devil's care. Which is also insane.

Do unto others as thou wouldst have them do unto you...judge not lest ye be judged...etc.

But there are always theological arguments for whatever someone wants to smite. *sigh*

peace,
AB

Until they find a cure for homosexuality, they should be treated just like "regular" people.

It's a fact that the more extreme a person becomes with their chosen religion, the more psychotic that person becomes.
Be it Mormonism, Islam, or any of the Christian faiths.
It's an absolute linear progression.

I think George Orwell said "You can't be an adult and a Catholic at the same time."
(Having been raised Catholic, I rather like that quote)

originally posted by: ColeYounger
Until they find a cure for homosexuality, they should be treated just like "regular" people.

WTF.

A cure? EUGENICS FOR EVERYBODY!!!!!!! You're not allowed to like what you want because that's wrong!

Better give you a pill. Even though animals engage in homosexual acts naturally, screw it!
it hurts my religion's feelings!

"Regular" people. Is there even such a thing?? Would you even want to be something so crazy?

What the hell is regular about trying to regulate other people's lives because it doesn't fit into the perfect ideal of your own?

Homosexuals ARE regular people. Jesus would slap people silly if he heard this crap.
What happened to that whole idea of tolerance I heard so much about?

a reply to: yourmaker

I was being sarcastic. Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

a reply to: ColeYounger

LOL! You had me, too... I was contemplating whether or not it was worth the energy to confront you. I'm generally a live and let live type of person, but that post freaked me out. I see I was not the only one!



peace,
AB

originally posted by: ColeYounger
a reply to: yourmaker

I was being sarcastic. Sorry, I thought it was obvious.

Oh thank god lol

From the article:

“My adult child just ‘came out,’” wrote MacArthur’s viewer, “‘in other words declared to be a homosexual. What do I do?’”

“You know, the answer depends,” answered MacArthur. “If that adult child professes Christ, claims to be a Christian, then that becomes an issue for confrontation of the sternest and strongest kind because that falls under Matthew 18.”

“If that person doesn’t repent and turn, you take two or three witnesses, and confront again. If there’s still no repentance, then tell the church. And if the church pursues it and there’s still no repentance, then there’s a public putting-out of the church, that person who professes to be a Christian. That’s how you deal with that.”

Non-believers, he said, don’t matter. “They’re just acting like a non-Christian.”

However, “if they profess to be a Christian, you have to alienate them,” he said. “You have to separate them. You can’t condone that, it’s inconsistent with the profession of Christ. So, you isolate them. You don’t have a meal with them. You separate yourself from them. You turn them over to Satan, as it were, as scripture says.”

MacArthur is talking about an adult who claims to be Christian, yet is violating Christian rules (if I understand his meaning). He is only suggesting that the mother do what the Bible suggests: give the offending person multiple opportunities to reject his sin and turn away from it. If he refuses, then take the name "Christian" from him and treat him as an outsider.

Now what that treatment works out to in practice, I'm not sure, times are different. But the same treatment is given to distinguished climate scientists who one day discover that global warming is wrong and make the mistake of publishing what they've found. Or, an ordinary person who is caught having made a token contribution to the wrong cause years ago, stripped of prestige and career.

No, it's not just the Bible that suggests the separation. The interesting part is that these other causes are not content to separate from the person, they have to destroy them as well. I'd rather live under the Christian rules than those.

a reply to: FlyersFan

It is not about forgiveness but obeying god, as for acceptance and forgiveness they too are two seperate thing's.
A friend of mine, my best friend when we were little boy's killed himself, he had been through hell and was addicted to narcotics and it had been over twelve years since I had last seen him since we lost contact as children but he was my first best friend and alex was a gay as I found out later so I do not judge and he will alway's be that boy I remember to me so it does not factor for me in that respect but I am a christian and it is not in accord with what we are supposed to do, but then if we did what we where supposed to god would never have had to send his son now would he.
I am sorry if this offend's but so be it, in my religion it is wrong but I am told not to judge and I try not to but I have encountered distinctly anti or even christophobic gay's as well as normal people whom simply happen to like people of the same sex, I was unfortunate enough to have feelings for a hot red headed fire brand of a woman whom happend to like woman as I later found out, did I judge her, NO I simply thought Ah well that's the way the cookie crumbles.
We have to live together in this world but that does not mean we have to think everything everyone else does is OK especially when it is against our religous Tenets but even those tenet's do not give us the right to judge another person and our faith must first be enacted by carrying out those tenet's in our own lives and not by forcing them onto others whom may not share our conviction.

a reply to: olaru12
If he didn't have an audience for this tripe, or a group to loudly protest his opinion (sorry - Divine Opinion), all his thoughts and words would fade to nothing...and he'd soon be out looking for work as an insurance/car/shoe/booze salesman.
Those that stick around (in his congregation) after hearing such trash...imo...are the ones to be concerned about.

a reply to: olaru12

The OPs title is a bit misleading. This is an internal issue with the church regarding a church goer professing himself to be a Christian who is Homosexual.
Here is the first part of the article.

California Pastor John MacArthur said during a recent edition of his “Grace to You” show that parents of LGBT kids should cast them out of their lives and “turn them over to Satan.” Americans Against the Tea Party reported that the pastor was responding to a question from a congregant about parenting a gay child.

This article is about a reply to a specific issue unique to the church. This is not a blanket statement commanding all Christians to Isolate LGBTers.

If you watch The VIDEO at the end of the article you will hear that the pastor differentiates between the churches response to a Christian that's a homosexual and a non Christian who is a homosexual.

For the record I do not agree with the pastors approach to this issue, I see his solution as a cop out, equivalent to sticking your fingers in your a ears and screaming La,La,La. Unconditional love is not easy, it takes work, sometimes it means getting a little dirty . This is lazy Christianity.


Edit: added link to VIdeo

My first thought is apparently different than most. I recall wording in the Bible similar to "expel the evildoers from your midst" and "ones enemies will be of ones own household". Add this to the fact that while Christ did not discriminate he did usually say something to the effect of "go and sin no more". It seems like most people don't realize that the reason he hung out with sinners was because "the healthy do not need a physician". He did NOT sit with sinners and say "its ok to keep sinning" he sat with them and rebuked their sins.

Similarly people tend to think that we cannot judge anyone. We ABSOLUTELY are called to judge actions, we just have no business judging the condition of anyones soul. It is weird to me that so many people think that Christ would have been an enabler and not called anyone on their sins, in other words they think he would have been "politically correct".

I don't know if what this guy is saying is good or not. All I am saying is that IMO he is not as far off as most seem to think.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Meh. There are jerks and wackos and intolerant a$$holes on both sides of the spectrum. Some crazy Westboro Baptist type preacher running his mouth isn't much to worry about.

You're right about that - they're an obvious target and easy to ridicule or dismiss. But, how about religious folk with money and influence?

Hobby Lobby Owners Backed Arizona Anti-Gay Law, Sent Millions To Religious Right Wing Network

Hobby Lobby owners don't simply want religious liberty for themselves. They're aiming to shape an extreme religious agenda for the entire country.

Hobby Lobby’s Steve Green launches a new project: a public school Bible curriculum

If successful, Green, whose family’s wealth is estimated at upward of $3 billion, would galvanize the movement to teach the Bible academically in public schools, a movement born after the Supreme Court banned school-sanctioned devotion in the 1960s but whose steady progress in the last decades has been somewhat hampered.

Those intolerant a$$holes are still the solid, dependable foot-soldiers in a war of ideas. They seem a lot more credible (to some) when there are so many that are actively working on legislating belief into something that will make what they spout seem fair and reasonable

Gay kids still have plenty to worry about in this country

Matthew 18:15 clearly states if someone has "trespassed against YOU" .That is clearly not the case John Mac Arthur is addressing at all.

Stop calling THAT christian.
I am SO happy I walked away from all that bull. God (Whatever YOU call the prime creator) PROBABLY doesn't take sides.
We need not behave like 6th century animals.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: NavyDoc

Meh. There are jerks and wackos and intolerant a$$holes on both sides of the spectrum. Some crazy Westboro Baptist type preacher running his mouth isn't much to worry about.

You're right about that - they're an obvious target and easy to ridicule or dismiss. But, how about religious folk with money and influence?

Hobby Lobby Owners Backed Arizona Anti-Gay Law, Sent Millions To Religious Right Wing Network

Hobby Lobby owners don't simply want religious liberty for themselves. They're aiming to shape an extreme religious agenda for the entire country.

Hobby Lobby’s Steve Green launches a new project: a public school Bible curriculum

If successful, Green, whose family’s wealth is estimated at upward of $3 billion, would galvanize the movement to teach the Bible academically in public schools, a movement born after the Supreme Court banned school-sanctioned devotion in the 1960s but whose steady progress in the last decades has been somewhat hampered.

Those intolerant a$$holes are still the solid, dependable foot-soldiers in a war of ideas. They seem a lot more credible (to some) when there are so many that are actively working on legislating belief into something that will make what they spout seem fair and reasonable

Gay kids still have plenty to worry about in this country

And they're counterbalanced with a lot of wealth and the MSM on the other side of the issue and a lot more corporations. Certainly one has the right to voice one's opinion. You can't shut down the hobby lobby dude without some collateral damage to the first amendment and the freedom of speech, so the only thing to really do is exercise freedom of speech in opposition.

originally posted by: ccross

Similarly people tend to think that we cannot judge anyone. We ABSOLUTELY are called to judge actions, we just have no business judging the condition of anyones soul. It is weird to me that so many people think that Christ would have been an enabler and not called anyone on their sins, in other words they think he would have been "politically correct".

I don't know if what this guy is saying is good or not. All I am saying is that IMO he is not as far off as most seem to think.

Ah, but there is the crux of the matter. Different theologies define what is "sin" and what it "not sin."
Labeling homosexuality as a "behavior" rather than an intrinsic part of someone's biology is at the heart of this.
Homosexuality is not a behavior, though it is expressed in behaviors, it is very often not something someone has chosen. If they are Christian and believe it to be a sin, like whether or not one chooses to lie or cheat on a spouse, they are tortured by the idea that the very essence of who they are is unacceptable to God and their Church.

As Flyers Fan said above, homosexuality is not something someone needs to be forgiven for... That would be akin to the olden days where to be a woman was in itself a sin. Yes. Once upon a time in Christian theology, due to Eve no doubt and a general desire to control women, to be born a female was to be inherently wrong and sinful in your very essence and nature - far different than a man. It went so far as to say that to be a woman meant that in order to come to God, to be 'saved,' you had to go through your father, brother or your husband as NO woman could have a divine connection all by herself because her nature was incapable of this... This prejudice continued even in more recent times, and I've no doubt some churches still stand by it to this day. I know I don't need to be 'forgiven' for being born a woman...

Do you see how these old outdated ideas sound very familiar in some ways when it comes to homosexuality? I guess I have a problem with people being condemned for how they were made by the very God people say is doing the condemning. That is not my idea of a Just God...

peace,
AB

a reply to: NavyDoc

You can't shut down the hobby lobby dude without some collateral damage to the first amendment and the freedom of speech, so the only thing to really do is exercise freedom of speech in opposition.

I'm all for freedom of speech - I have a problem with turning religious views into laws

:-)

originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: olaru12

You know... I keep trying to picture Jesus turning his back on somebody and I just don't see it. I can't seem to find him bashing anybody except for the judgmental, greedy, and heartless people he rebuked.

I don't know how western civilization did it but we somehow tricked our Christians into acting exactly like the ONLY things Jesus "hated". The illusion itself isn't such a mystery to me; it's the persistent habit of modern Christians to succumb to that illusion that is.

I agree. It is like there are 2 types of Christians. Those who wear their faith like a clothing to show of and those who are followers of Jesus. I like the followers of Jesus. They are quite cool.