Ruusia cuts off gas to Ukraine

This is how it started with Japan, when you have nothing left to loose fighting is all that's left and Russia is just waiting to get started.

I guess there is always becoming an Russian state again.

The idea of America helping is remote, to many campaign stops ...and don't forget the golf games.

Oh well.....here we go....

Ukraine-Russia Near "Serious Conflict" Following Explosion In Largest European Gas Transit Pipeline

With 2 Russian TV journalists killed in recent days and on the heels of Russia's cutting off Ukraine's gas supply for non-payment, Interfax is reporting that:

*EXPLOSION ON UKRAINE GAS TRANSIT PIPELINE REPORTED: IFX
*INTERFAX CITES UKRAINE INTERIOR MINISTRY ON GAS PIPELINE BLAST
Witnesses say flames are reaching 200 metres high. Gazprom shares are tumbling on the news (as should European stocks) and Russia's Foreign Affairs Committee Chief Aleksei Pushkov warned relations between Ukraine and Russia have entered a new stage and are "moving closer towards a serious conflict."

Operating since 1967, the “Brotherhood” is the largest consumer gas pipeline in Europe, clocking in at 4,451 km. It cuts through Ukraine and runs into Slovakia, where it diverges in two directions; with one part supplying gas to the Czech Republic, Germany, France and Switzerland, and the other to Austria, Italy, Hungary and several countries in the Balkans.
Pipeline faucets are being tuned off as fire fighters still can’t put out the flame.

Gas Pipeline



Rainbows
Jane

I think Russia has shown A LOT of restraint and patience. It's time for Russia to take the gloves off and take over eastern Ukraine in my opinion. To start blowing up gas and oil pipepline infrastructure because Ukraine is whining about not being able to pay for their resources……..shove it. That's their problem. Maybe now they understand why their country is such a dilapitated disaster in the making. Terrorists act like that and Russia should treat Ukraine as such. Everybody in the world is gunning for Russia. Why? Is Russia and Putin any more vile than anyone us in the world. Any more corrupt than the USA or our leadership? Are the Russian people as imperialistic as we are? I think the resounding answer to those questions are no. We obviously know the US is gunning for Russia and Putin. SO Russia needs to do what it needs to in order to protect its borders and sovereignty. You never know what will happen with the US lurking around poking its nose.

As an American I'm disgusted with my country and my government right now. Obama has been a complete and utter failure. Scandal after scandal! Complete incompetence in every aspect of his leadership. Our borders are so wide open we have thousands of children from Central American flooding in???!!!!!! WTF! We cant take care of our military vets! How many are committing suicide everyday??? Our foreign policy is one big disaster on every level. We focus on countries like Iran instead of doing anything about North Korea!!!! Our economy is in the toilet thanks to the government's constant meddling and endless printing of money and corporate bailouts.

America has become a paper tiger…………it's depressing…….and we as Americans seem to be powerless to stop any of it.

a reply to: the owlbear

It is a matter of economics.

The North West Sturgeon refinery is estimated at around $8 billion in costs to construct. The project is slated for 3 Phases and this costs represents only the first phase. I have worked in the oil sands first hand and talked with engineers and project managers, and the cost seems about right. The numbers that were always tossed around in passing were $15 billion for a mid size refinery.

The $8.5b refinery scheduled for 2016 (delayed to 2017) is estimated at 50,000 bpd of refining capacity. (Each phase would have 50,000 bpd capacity)

The 150,000 bpd of the proposed full refinery would barely cover the output of the small oil sands upgraders, let alone any of the bigger ones.

Ok so onto the details:

Oil sands oil is first mined (as 'oil sand'), is extracted (as 'bitumen'), then upgraded (to 'crude oil'), then refined (to 'gasoline, diesel, kerosene, etc').

The bitumen is so thick it is very hard to transport, the 48"+ pipes we transport it in onsite are required to be heated to 700F at all times to allow flow. This bitumen flows typically short distances before being upgraded into what is called Western Canada Select 'crude oil' (WCS). This is differentiated from other forms like the typical Western Texas Intermediate 'crude oil' (WTI). WTI can typically be used as is for oil based needs (think engine oil, etc), but the WCS needs to be refined into Synthetic Oil first to achieve the right properties.

Thus it stands that a refinery for oil sands oil is basically turning WCS into Gassoline/Diesel or Synthetic Crude. As of today Oil Prices, WCS is $93.47 a barrel and Synthetic is $110.56. (Trying to calc the gas or diesel per barrel is beyond this comparison)

So an $8.5 billion refinery will turn 50,000 barrels of $93.47 oil into $110.56 oil per day. They range a gross profit per unit of $17.09, or about $850,000 per day. At 100% profit, the return on investment is over 27 years. At a more reasonable 40% profit, RoI is over 68 years.

It is worth nothing that is refinery is backed by the Canadian Government with the stated intent to use it as a place to refine its own stock of upgraded bitumen (WCS).

In short, there is no money in refineries right now. As for why, don't ask me.

Winter is coming...

a reply to: Nodrak

Erm....can I please point out that this thread is about Russia cutting off gas supplies to the Ukraine, which in turn also uses the very same pipeline to supply the west of Europe.
It has nothing to do with...oil sands (fracking), Canada, Saudi, Iraq, Iran or Lybia.
Just saying, even though I can see the bigger picture you guys are joining the dots with.
Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: angelchemuel

For the record, OIl Sands is rarely fracking.

Mostly dredging and insitu.

a reply to: peck420
I'm sorry I was generalising. I do know the difference, however I apologise.
But my previous post still stands.
Rainbows
Jane

UK Wholesale Gas Prices Rise After Ukraine Gas Halt By Kremlin

Well that didn't take long. Home prices are not the only thing surging in Britain as Reuters reports British spot wholesale gas prices climbed over 7% after Ukraine and Russia failed to agree on the price of future gas deliveries. Britain gets around 5% of its gas from Russian sources and a mild winter and spring have prompted utilities to inject more gas into storage than usual. One analyst notes "as yet flows through Ukraine to Europe have not been disrupted but the market has become increasingly concerned that they will," and now, following the explosion in the largest gas transit pipeline in Europe, disruptions have begun.

www.zerohedge.com...

Mhmmmm.......

Rainbows
Jane

originally posted by: Etherguide

originally posted by: starfoxxx

originally posted by: angelchemuel
a reply to: starfoxxx

Erm....nooooo.....Russia brought down the price they had previously agreed with Ukraine and extended their first payment due date. Ukraine pay no more than the rest of Europe do.......but they have no compunction about syphoning off gas directed to the rest of Europe who have paid for it.
Please see the links provided by other posters.

Here....have one of these to go with your Jolly Roger and chill....I am

Rainbows
Jane

Can YOU back up your lies???

"We have to be prepared to ensure that Russia doesn't use energy as a weapon against Ukraine; we can't stand by and let that happen," he said.

Russia raised the gas price for Ukraine by some 80% in April, from $268 per 1,000 cubic meters to $485.5, after protesters ousted a pro-Russian president in February. The Kremlin last week said it wouldn't improve on its offer to apply a discount.

Mr. Oettinger on Sunday night proposed a winter price in line with Gazprom's offer of $385 per 1,000 cubic meters, but a lower price for summer months of $300, an offer he said was rejected by Russia.

Ukranian officials said Ukraine's inventories and imports from Europe via reverse flows through Slovakia would see through to the end of the year. But Gazprom chief Alexei Miller expressed skepticism during a news conference in Brussels about Ukraine's ability to make up the gap.

Russia Raised gas prices when Ukraine didn't bow to mother russia
Your wrong, lay off the jolly rogers..

That's the deal, that is the problem...

Ukraine is being extorted for not following mother Russia plain and simple.

Naftogaz of Ukraine was offered 385.5$ for 1 thousand cubic meters of natural gas by Gazprom. It is the lowest price for natural gas in Europe. Oettinger has admitted that it is a sound deal.
The offer is still on the table, but Ukraine demands the price to be as low as 268.5$ or they refuse to pay (!). It is absolutely ridiculous.

Ukrainians are willing to accept that Russian price, on condition that Russians are not longer able to raise the price unilaterally (by cancelling this so called "discount). Curious why Russians are unwilling to accept such counter offer?

Anyway there was also another deal - leasing of Crimean basis for prices discount. Ukrainians expect Russians to honor that deal - you know, Russians still are keeping their bases in Crimea...

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
I think Russia has shown A LOT of restraint and patience. It's time for Russia to take the gloves off and take over eastern Ukraine in my opinion. To start blowing up gas and oil pipepline infrastructure because Ukraine is whining about not being able to pay for their resources……..shove it. That's their problem. Maybe now they understand why their country is such a dilapitated disaster in the making. Terrorists act like that and Russia should treat Ukraine as such. Everybody in the world is gunning for Russia. Why? Is Russia and Putin any more vile than anyone us in the world. Any more corrupt than the USA or our leadership? Are the Russian people as imperialistic as we are? I think the resounding answer to those questions are no. We obviously know the US is gunning for Russia and Putin. SO Russia needs to do what it needs to in order to protect its borders and sovereignty. You never know what will happen with the US lurking around poking its nose.

As an American I'm disgusted with my country and my government right now. Obama has been a complete and utter failure. Scandal after scandal! Complete incompetence in every aspect of his leadership. Our borders are so wide open we have thousands of children from Central American flooding in???!!!!!! WTF! We cant take care of our military vets! How many are committing suicide everyday??? Our foreign policy is one big disaster on every level. We focus on countries like Iran instead of doing anything about North Korea!!!! Our economy is in the toilet thanks to the government's constant meddling and endless printing of money and corporate bailouts.

America has become a paper tiger…………it's depressing…….and we as Americans seem to be powerless to stop any of it.

Actually Russians are the main suspect for source of this blowing up of the pipeline. Let's say generally pipeline in the whole proximity tend to explode when its convenient for Putin , like Georgia was cut of in 2006.

EDIT: Yes, Russia is more corrupted than the US (or the western countries in general). As the least corrupted countries as usual Scandinavians leads, the USA has 18th place, while Russia respectable 128th.
www.transparency.org...

originally posted by: angelchemuel
a reply to: starfoxxx

Erm....nooooo.....Russia brought down the price they had previously agreed with Ukraine and extended their first payment due date. Ukraine pay no more than the rest of Europe do.......but they have no compunction about syphoning off gas directed to the rest of Europe who have paid for it.
Please see the links provided by other posters.

Rainbows
Jane

Just jump over to Youtube and watch every Vice News video in relation to the situation in Ukraine. Russia is telling one lie after the other and they are so ridiculous they cant even be taken seriously by anyone.

The only reason the Vice News crew are not dead is that they did not bust out laughing at the Russian lies.

The head Vice News reporter was kidnapped for a day or more and beaten for no dam reason. Thankfully, later they caught a Russian army commander on video dressed as a policeman telling everyone who he was after the police were told to get inline or else by him. Can you say Busted!!!! This was inside mainland Ukraine.

originally posted by: Battleline
This is how it started with Japan, when you have nothing left to loose fighting is all that's left and Russia is just waiting to get started.

I guess there is always becoming an Russian state again.

The idea of America helping is remote, to many campaign stops ...and don't forget the golf games.

Russia is so full of Crap!!! They are just being poor losers. Eventually everyone will cut them off and be done with them.

originally posted by: peck420
Winter is coming...

Ya know if that was here in the West that might be a problem. We're talking a hearty people here.

This is just my opinion.

originally posted by: intrepid
Ya know if that was here in the West that might be a problem. We're talking a hearty people here.

This is just my opinion.

Wouldn't it be nice if this problem only affected Russia and the Ukraine.

This problem, unfortunately, affects 15% of Europe's electricity and heat.

Winter is coming.

a reply to: peck420

Like I said, a hearty people. We had an ice storm last Dec. and people freaked. It may have been a day to a week when they got power back but you would have thought that electricity was a mainstay while people walked the Earth. I think Europeans are made of tougher stuff.

And the latest development/consequence of the gas shut off....

Kiev Doubles The Price Of Cold Water, Shuts Off Hot Water

No one ever thinks about the water. Or the toilet paper, as it were.

But these are among the many, many staples that become luxuries when one’s nation is in crisis.

Hours ago, the local gas company in Kiev (Kyivenergo) announced that they would be shutting off the hot water supply to most of the city.

While the official reason for the hot water shutoff is that Kyivenergo (the energy supplier to Kiev) owes a debt to the Ukrainian state gas company (Naftogaz) of over $100 million.

It’s just a quirky little coincidence that this debt suddenly became materially important only one week after Russia shut off natural gas supplies to Ukraine.

Funny thing is that Ukrainian politicians for years had been telling people not to worry about this.

You see, Ukraine has its own domestic natural gas supplies. And they tell people that the domestic gas is strictly for the people and their utilities (like hot water).

Russian gas, according to this story, is imported for businesses to use. But that domestic gas is sacrosanct, only for the people.

Clearly this turned out to be a big fat lie.

More here......
No hot water

Rainbows
Jane

I predicted the pipes would be blown month ago.

Even if gas was sold for $0.01 on the open market the price you and I pay would not drop a cent and would just be taken up with yet more taxes and people being cold in Europe this winter will start riots and I hope that the USA and its military bases are kicked out of Europe for being behind this crisis.

originally posted by: Shadow1024
Actually Russians are the main suspect for source of this blowing up of the pipeline. Let's say generally pipeline in the whole proximity tend to explode when its convenient for Putin , like Georgia was cut of in 2006.

Yes so Gazprom took a drop in its share price and wanted to increase that loss by blowing up the gas pipes.

Actually most logical people would agree it was the nazi groups in Kiev that would had pulled the plug and were most likly helped by the CIA.

Now if you are looking for a false flag then may I sugest you deal with 9/11 first !

originally posted by: VirusGuard
I predicted the pipes would be blown month ago.

Really? So did you short sale Gazprom shares on the market and earn money on that?

Even if gas was sold for $0.01 on the open market the price you and I pay would not drop a cent and would just be taken up with yet more taxes and people being cold in Europe this winter will start riots and I hope that the USA and its military bases are kicked out of Europe for being behind this crisis.

Doubtful.

originally posted by: Shadow1024
Actually Russians are the main suspect for source of this blowing up of the pipeline. Let's say generally pipeline in the whole proximity tend to explode when its convenient for Putin , like Georgia was cut of in 2006.

Yes so Gazprom took a drop in its share price and wanted to increase that loss by blowing up the gas pipes.

Actually most logical people would agree it was the nazi groups in Kiev that would had pulled the plug and were most likly helped by the CIA.

Now if you are looking for a false flag then may I sugest you deal with 9/11 first !

Nazi in Kiev? Wow - someone is watching Russian propaganda TV! (that's the only place where they exist)

I mean the EU Comission just strangled with red tape (and pro-competition regulation) the South Stream. So Gazprom has to convince the EU that its necessary because pipelines through Ukraine are unreliable. Some minor explosion may be used as argument. I wouldn't even call it false flag operation if Russians are the main suspect.

Gazprom didn't want that. But its business aims are being often sacrificed for Russian gov, who controls that company.

Putin Scores Another Historic Victory: Austria Signs South Stream Pipeline Deal In Defiance Of Europe

Which in turn brings us to the culmination of the political struggle over the South Stream, when earlier today, in yet another coup for the Kremlin, one of the most stable and respected European countries, AAA-rated Austria gave its final approval to the "controversial" Russian gas pipeline project early Tuesday, defying EU officials and welcoming Russian President Vladimir Putin to the neutral country that has been a long-standing energy customer for Moscow.

As Reuters reports, "the chief executives of Russia's Gazprom and Austria's OMV sealed the deal to build a branch of the South Stream gas pipeline to Austria, a staunch defender of the project in the face of opposition from the European Commission."

In other words, one short month after Putin concluded the Holy Grail deal with Beijing, he not only managed to formalize his conquest of Europe's energy needs with yet another pipeline, one which completely bypasses Ukraine (for numerous reasons but mostly one: call it a Plan B), but scored a massive political victory by creating a fissure in the heart of the Eurozone, after Austria openly defied its European peers and sided with Putin.

A lot more and map here......

South Stream

Rainbows
Jane