Venus and Mars

Is it possible that Mars was once like Earth and that Venus is, and always has been, occupied by those of our own species? I know NASA says Venus cannot sustain life, and I will not even try to go into such depth as Leer has, but how possible is this scenario? That Venus had a world ending war with Mars and that we're the descendents? ...basically a slave planet. That these "people" (on Venus) have been controlling "human" politics/civilization on Earth since that war ended?

I know I'm going off the deep end here, but there's a giant hole regarding the history of this planet and our species. Hell, you could even make this biblical, fallen angels and all that. But finding nuclear residue on Mars along with the continued secrecy regarding anything extraterrestrial just brings up so many questions. Is this truly a prison planet?

I am all for Curiosity and remember counting down the days to descent.
I seen an artice thats worth a read with a nice quote
a reply to: simsumre

There’s nothing wrong with oooh-ing and aaah-ing over Curiosity’s photos. The project is an incredible achievement, and the science it produces will be amazing. But remember this, too: That little rover on Mars has left a big mess back here on Earth.

a reply to: simsumre

Good thread premise, which deserves a star and a flag, especially for mentioning the "giant hole" regarding the history of the planet venus. Same size as Earth, different atmospheric conditions today, but potentially habitable in the past? A lost moon of Venus somewhere? Just some food for thought ...

I also share the notion that we have been visited in biblical times and most probably before and after that, too. By whom? IDK, difficult to say! I cannot relate so much to the rest of your theory, but I'm definitely looking forward to what others have to say!

Size comparison of the inner planets (own illustration):

And an interesting link from space.com with at least 'some' details about Venus: www.space.com...

I believe Venus could have have once hosted life in a very distant past, since the Sun was dimmer in it's early stage of life.
Also I believe Mars in the coming future could become habitable? Since the Sun will grow bigger and get hotter, I suppose it will raise temperatures in the Red Planet, in turn helping it?
But in the past I wonder how could the Mars be habitable if the Sun wasn't as bright as it is today, this would make the planet even cooler (excluding the possible greenhouse effect or other processes that can keep a planet warm)

originally posted by: simsumre
Is it possible that Mars was once like Earth and that Venus is, and always has been, occupied by those of our own species? I know NASA says Venus cannot sustain life, and I will not even try to go into such depth as Leer has, but how possible is this scenario? That Venus had a world ending war with Mars and that we're the descendents? ...basically a slave planet. That these "people" (on Venus) have been controlling "human" politics/civilization on Earth since that war ended?

I know I'm going off the deep end here, but there's a giant hole regarding the history of this planet and our species. Hell, you could even make this biblical, fallen angels and all that. But finding nuclear residue on Mars along with the continued secrecy regarding anything extraterrestrial just brings up so many questions. Is this truly a prison planet?

This is kind of like a '50's sci fi pulp novel. If you are using open minded speculation then cool, but the conditions on Venus kind of make life in anything like a form we would understand (or just as importantly understand us) massively unlikely. I think the fact that it is completely cloud covered did mean some people in the '50's/'60's made some assumptions about what could be going on down there though.

Re the 'continued secrecy regarding anything extraterrestrial' - that is assuming something is being kept secret. It's a theory sure, but because you are not hearing it doesn't always mean it's being hidden.

originally posted by: uncommitted

This is kind of like a '50's sci fi pulp novel. If you are using open minded speculation then cool, but the conditions on Venus kind of make life in anything like a form we would understand (or just as importantly understand us) massively unlikely. I think the fact that it is completely cloud covered did mean some people in the '50's/'60's made some assumptions about what could be going on down there though.

No pulp novel IMO, it all depends on the kind of cataclysms that took place and especially WHEN did they take place? That's true both for Mars and Venus. So what was it really like eons ago? Things were probably a lot different back then ...

Our orbiters & probes provided some basic information but I think we need to find out more about the geology of both planets. Especially when considering that even today(!) we're still discovering new insights about our own planet as well as its history and geology!

a reply to: simsumre

well i have heard the saying that women are from venus and men are from mars

but on topic we will never really know anything from our distant past in my opinion

originally posted by: simsumre


Is it possible that Mars was once like Earth and that Venus is, and always has been, occupied by those of our own species?

Yes and no; Yes; Mars was once much more "Earth like" than now...Venus was perhaps in the beginning a bit more Earth like. And, NO there has never been life on either Mars or Venus as advanced as on Earth.

Mars and Venus are the same age as the Earth, but both have their own natural issues where life is concerned.

Venus is, and has always been too close to the Sun for life to evolve as it has on Earth. With it's run away greenhouse issues, and the toxic atmosphere, life like we see here on Earth doesn't exist. However, life on Venus would not be out of the ordinary right here on Earth. There are creatures that live in such toxic environments, and, there are creatures that live at the edge of space right here. It is reasonable to presume that life like these extremophiles could exist on Venus.

Mars is too small...in that there is not enough planet to sustain the magnetic fields necessary t protect the planet. Thus most of Mars' atmosphere is gone...Mars may however have basic life today.

In a nutshell; life on all three planets started at approximately the same time. We know from observation that it takes around 3.5 billion years for life to evolve into a technological societal form, such as we have here on Earth. SO...it would be very unlikely that any life forms have evolved to the point where they could be equivalent to Terrestrial life.

The notion of Earth being a "Prison Planet" is quite another concept, and while probably not true; there does seem to be something "unnatural" about Earth's relationship with the rest of the Cosmos.

originally posted by: jeep3r

originally posted by: uncommitted

This is kind of like a '50's sci fi pulp novel. If you are using open minded speculation then cool, but the conditions on Venus kind of make life in anything like a form we would understand (or just as importantly understand us) massively unlikely. I think the fact that it is completely cloud covered did mean some people in the '50's/'60's made some assumptions about what could be going on down there though.

No pulp novel IMO, it all depends on the kind of cataclysms that took place and especially WHEN did they take place? That's true both for Mars and Venus. So what was it really like eons ago? Things were probably a lot different back then ...

Our orbiters & probes provided some basic information but I think we need to find out more about the geology of both planets. Especially when considering that even today(!) we're still discovering new insights about our own planet as well as its history and geology!

The Mars/Venus war leading us to be the slave/prison planet is right out of the kind of thing published in the 50's/60's. It's likely that Venus became the planet we now see way before anything like sentient life could have started the long road to anything like the evolution witnessed on Earth.

For what it's worth, I think it may be significant Earth appears to be the only planet in our solar system with tectonic plates (obviously the gas giants couldn't have them), and I think that may be a clue to how as well as many other mitigating factors life not only happened, but progressed.

originally posted by: simsumre
Is this truly a prison planet?

OP @ times 1 wonders of the VENUS and MARS disagreements... But this sphere seems like a LEARNING zone but may seem like a prison for Soul/Spirit/Internal Energies that cannot or have not ascended beyond it for whatever reason. You can learn a lot here to take with you beyond here.

Racism or hate (CREATOR CREATION self hate)for example now consider how a racist would feel act knowing there are entire other species and w/o learning of racism and how to deny it they would possibly become ignorant to the settings outside of the learning center. As the Soul/Spirit/Internal Energies mature even thru multiple lives here the self hatred dissolves you may even replace that hate w/ love as you mature more in Soul/Spirit/Internal Energies / consciousness.

Many may be stuck here (OVERSEEN) but may also have opportunity to Ascend beyond as they mature in Soul/Spirit/Internal Energy...

NAMASTE*******

Venus is 20 million miles closer to the Sun than Earth, which is too close...even if it were otherwise identical to Earth.

Also the atmosphere is composed almost entirely of carbon dioxide.

The surface temperature is hot enough to boil lead, to say nothing of the immense atmospheric pressure.

Can't see any intelligent life forms thriving in those conditions.

With a surface temperature between 800-875 degrees Fahrenheit, as already mentioned....not very likely that any kind of humanoid beings (As proposed in old sci-fi stories and by UFO quacks) would survive on Venus. It's a wasteland that is millions of miles closer to the sun than earth. It is also roughly the same age, so even if the conditions were more ideal a couple billion years back, life would not have evolved far enough for an intelligent civilization. At least its not very likely. If there was complex life at some point, it turned into liquid sh----

originally posted by: simsumre
Is it possible that Mars was once like Earth and that Venus is, and always has been, occupied by those of our own species?

If there were life on Mars and/or Venus, why would it be our own species? We seem horribly adapted to live on either planet.

Oh man i wish Phage was on here, he would tare you a new one.

WhiteWine
Also I believe Mars in the coming future could become habitable? Since the Sun will grow bigger and get hotter, I suppose it will raise temperatures in the Red Planet,

Quite the opposite Whitewine.
Mars could of sustained life in the past but its magnetic field was to small to stop atmospheric ablation. The Red Planet's atmosphere was simply blown away by the solar wind.

The Sun expanding will not improve its chances of sustaining life.
Mars and Venus are also much lighter than Earth, so escape velocity is smaller and molecules don't need as much acceleration.



That been said i do love the imagination of people on here.

originally posted by: CJCrawley
Venus is 20 million miles closer to the Sun than Earth, which is too close...even if it were otherwise identical to Earth.

Also the atmosphere is composed almost entirely of carbon dioxide.

The surface temperature is hot enough to boil lead, to say nothing of the immense atmospheric pressure.

Can't see any intelligent life forms thriving in those conditions.

I understand what you are saying, there is literally proof here on Earth that life thrives in EXTREME environments and withstand EXTREME heat and pressure in the ocean, and inside volcanic areas. I am sorry but I see no reason why an intelligent life form could not exist on Venus.

a reply to: roncoallstar

You should ask the Russians, they landed an armoured probe there called Venera!
Oh wait you can't, it only lasted 23 minutes because of the highly corrosive environment.
No life can evolve here. Period.

originally posted by: muSSang
a reply to: roncoallstar

No life can evolve here. Period.

Absolutely not true. While any life that evolves under such conditions will not be like anything we have ever seen; life none the less will evolve literally anywhere that conditions permit...we have no idea the limits of "permitting" conditions.

Right here on earth there are living creatures that exist under pressures that make Venus look pleasant, temperatures too. Earth has live in highly toxic water / places. There is life living at an altitude of 20+ km and higher.

Do a wee Google search for "extremophiles", they can be quite fascinating...

Point is; there is probably life on Venus as well as Mars today...course, its nothing like Earth has.

a reply to: tanka418

Absolutely not true. While any life that evolves under such conditions will not be like anything we have ever seen; life none the less will evolve literally anywhere that conditions permit...we have no idea the limits of "permitting" conditions.

I think me and you have a different understanding into intelligent life, my reply was to Roncollstar who stated

I am sorry but I see no reason why an intelligent life form could not exist on Venus.

And my closing statement was;

No life can evolve here. Period.

Right here on earth there are living creatures that exist under pressures that make Venus look pleasant, temperatures too. Earth has live in highly toxic water / places. There is life living at an altitude of 20+ km and higher.

Wrong, there is no where on Earth that would make any spot on Venus pleasant.

Most astronomers feel that it would be impossible for life to exist on Venus. Today, Venus is a very hostile place. It is a very dry planet with no evidence of water, its surface temperature is hot enough to melt lead, and its atmosphere is so thick that the air pressure on its surface is over 90 times that on Earth. Even the spacecraft which have landed on Venus only survived for about an hour before being crushed and melted.

Its even hostile for extremophiles do a wee search on it.

There is however a hypothesis of life in the clouds on Venus. Unlikely as it sounds.

originally posted by: tanka418
Right here on earth there are living creatures that exist under pressures that make Venus look pleasant, temperatures too. Earth has live in highly toxic water / places. There is life living at an altitude of 20+ km and higher.

Do a wee Google search for "extremophiles", they can be quite fascinating...

To expand on what muSSang wrote, this is wrong. Yes, extremophiles are fascinating, and they can live in severely alkaline or acidic environments and remain viable under zero pressure and survive on the ocean floor. So far for Venus, we're good. But the surface temperature of Venus is 600° F higher than any extremophile can survive. Thermophiles (en.wikipedia.org...) have been found surviving at up to 252° F, Venus' surface temperature is 800-900°F. So ... no. That's a game killer.

That doesn't mean that Venus is 100% dead or couldn't have supported some form of life in the distant past. One niche in astrobiology is trying to figure out how life may survive in the atmosphere of Venus where it's not as hot.

originally posted by: WhiteWine

Also I believe Mars in the coming future could become habitable? Since the Sun will grow bigger and get hotter, I suppose it will raise temperatures in the Red Planet, in turn helping it?

It cant SUPPORT a thick enough atmosphere it has no magnetic field like the Earth that's it put in the simplest of terms.