Patterns Of Evidence: The Exodus

Well, it looks as if they finally got this movie done. It was originally titled The Exodus Conspiracy. I can't give you a opinion of the movie as I haven't seen it. I only put this up so people can know about it, see it if they choose. It's been a long time for this one as I first heard of this six or seven years ago, IIRC.

www.patternsofevidence.com...

For more than 50 years, the vast majority of the world’s most prominent archaeologists and historians have proclaimed that there is no hard evidence to support the Exodus story found in the Bible. In fact, they say that the archaeological record is completely opposed to the Bible’s account. This view of extreme skepticism has spread from academia to the world. The case against the Exodus appears to be so strong that even some religious leaders are labeling this ancient account as historical fiction.

Despite this, many religious authorities continue to vigorously defend the biblical account and the history of the Jewish people. If this foundational story of the Hebrew Bible is fiction, then two of the world’s great religions: Judaism and Christianity, are clearly founded on a colossal lie. The Koran also describes the Exodus event.

Filmmaker Tim Mahoney begins with the question, “Is the Bible just a myth, or did the archaeologists get it wrong?” He decides to tackle this issue with a deliberate scientific approach. After examining the details in the biblical text, he journeys across the globe to search for patterns of evidence firsthand. The result is the most in-depth archaeological investigation into the Exodus from Egypt ever captured on film

Awesome. I have been waiting for this. Thanks for bringing it here. a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

Oh, what a tease. This is only a trailer. I totally thought it was the movie. I almost popped popcorn. I'm gonna see if i can find it.

a reply to: Woodcarver

No problem. I just wish I had seen it, maybe start a discussion, but oh well.

hyksos = israelites

Stay up to date on the latest news for Patterns of Evidence: The Exodus. The film will continue to play at film festivals during the summer and fall of 2014. A comprehensive book will be published before the end of the year with detailed information from the film and more. Plans for release of the film are currently in the works - all that can be said at this time is that it will be available some time after the book is out. If you would like to receive updates, provide your email address below. Also join us on Tumblr, YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter to receive the latest information.

a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

This is from the site. I signed up for emails and a list of dates and locations. I will travel to see this if i can make it.

a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

Thanks for sharing. Looks like it's going to be a long wait before the film is out:

The film will continue to play at film festivals during the summer and fall of 2014. A comprehensive book will be published before the end of the year with detailed information from the film and more. Plans for release of the film are currently in the works - all that can be said at this time is that it will be available some time after the book is out.

Hopefully once it's released, a lot of people will watch it. I have seen a lot of people around here claiming that Exodus is a completely fictional story and there is no evidence it happened, when that simply isn't true. There is a lot of evidence for the biblical story of the Hebrews in Egypt (including Joseph, of technicolor coat fame).

I've read a few books of David Rhol's and I highly recommend his work on the subject for anyone who would like to learn more about it and maybe get some background info on the debate before the film comes out.

Going to be tough waiting!

a reply to: DeadSeraph

From what I understand, the movie is taking a contrary stand to what you say. That's the way it was originally presented, at least. I don't know, so I can't say it's one way or the other.

@ Thread: Sorry guys, I guess I totally misread that. I thought the movie had already played the festivals and was out there, somewhere. Guess we'll just have to wait longer to see this.

a reply to: TheSpanishArcher

There is nothing in the Bible, that can be trusted ... and no archeological find, that is "connected" to it, can be taken as evidence.

The reason is, that Christianity has had 2 thousand years, at creating fake evidences around the world. Just like the Swedish immigrants to America, created fake evidence ... so did Christianity, the Jews and even the Muslims.

Let us assume, that the Exodus is true. That Moses existed, and the events that took place were correct.

Then I'd expect the Jews always to paint their doors red. Because after all, their very existance relies on this fact ... but yet, they haven't. Which means, that the events recorded are not burried in their minds ... as it should be.

This, of course, does not mean that the Exodus or expulsion of people didn't take place. What it does however say, is that it was NOT the modern jews. period. Nothing more to say about that.

Everything you dig up, is open to interpretations ... but people's culture is not. The jews have no such culture, to paint their doors red. But, the angel of god told them to paint their doors red, to skip the enormous genocide that took place. If it were me, or anyone else ... we'd tell our children, and childrens childrens, to always paint their doors red ... just to be on the safe side. If this EVER took place in our time.

These parts, are absent from the modern jewish culture.

The bible being stories of different peoples, and perhaps even events that actually took place. May very well be a fact ... but like all people around the world. The followers, or the reader ... has taken the story and fabricated onto him, her or themselves. This applies to Christianity, Jewdom and Muslims alike.

Now, to take this even further ... the Egyptians were ancient people, who used "hyroglyphs". Jews were not ... they are a populace that is much, much, much younger ... about a thousand years younger, in fact. They date, at the time where people started to use other means of writing then pictures ... but instead, related it to sound. The people who used hyroglyphs vanished ... they are NOT related to the modern middle east ... not even in the slightest.

However, the Chinese still use their picture graphics ... and, even more to the point ... the Chinese paint their doors red. It's an ancient tradition. Not only is it an ancient tradition, they also have a history of a wall being built around their country to ward off people ... and have by doing this, sustained their empire over a thousand years.

To the Chinese, the color RED is a GOOD color ... to the rest of us, including the JEWS ... the color RED is a BAD BAD color.

Now, THAT is a really, really interresting FACT.

Now, to whom does the color red mean STOP, DON'T. Well, to the Angel of Death of course ... to those, who committed the genocide. Because the color on the door, means 'DONT KILL THOSE INSIDE'. And to whome would the color RED, mean DANGER! ... well, to the descendants of egyptians, of course.

This is what the color RED, would mean to the descendants of those who participated in the events ... if they actually took place.

And it's really, really PATHETIC, to dig up ancient artifacts and try to mirror their existance on yourself, for the purpose of finding an excuse for your existance.

a reply to: bjarneorn

This is one of the most ignorant and misinformed things I've ever read. I made it to your paragraph about Jews painting their doors red and skimmed over the rest. You do know what PASSOVER is right? You know WHY it's STILL CELEBRATED TO THIS DAY? Ridiculous. I can't believe you have the audacity to call others pathetic after posting that tripe.

@OP: I didn't interpret the trailer as siding with one side of the argument or the other. It looks to me like both sides were presented (those who think the story is fantasy, and those who think it's grounded in actual historical events). I noticed David Rohl was featured in the trailer (which is why I mentioned his books), and he is a proponent of a historical exodus having taken place (and he's no crackpot either). He takes a lot of flak because his ideas are considered radical by some academics due to his "new chronology", which changes some of the dates associated with certain events (such as the conquest of Canaan) by up to 100 or so years.

Some people dismiss him outright, but he is an egyptologist and presents a very compelling case for his claims in his books. I think some Academics are reluctant to give his theory due consideration because it would mean not only admitting they were in error about certain dates in history, but it would also create a pretty big headache by forcing the history of the region to be carefully re-evaluated. This would obviously hold the possibility of igniting religious tensions there as well.

Erm, there's still no evidence that the Exodus ever took place. Yes, it's possible that it might be tied to the destruction of the Kingdom of the Hyksos in Lower Egypt. But there's no proof of a crossing of the Red Sea, no proof of an Egyptian army being destroyed and certainly no proof of a Pharaoh dying. However, it's possible that the old 'Pillar of Fire/Smoke' legend and the plagues might have been the result of the eruption of Thera, which might have happened at the same time. Maybe. It is thought. Kinda.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

Now that I think about it, I may have gotten that wrong, as it's been years since I saw the trailers they had up for the "old" movie. They may have tried to do this just to get a answer, whatever it may be. I seem to recall thinking that they did have a agenda to prove it wrong, though. My memory could be faulty. That could have been the reason for the name change, as they came to find evidence supporting the Exodus, or not be able to totally debunk it.

Whatever. At this point, if they came out and said it was all a hoax perpetrated by the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I would be happy. I found this movie so long ago, and by accident no less, that now I just want to see it, whatever their conclusions may be.

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: bjarneorn

This is one of the most ignorant and misinformed things I've ever read. I made it to your paragraph about Jews painting their doors red and skimmed over the rest. You do know what PASSOVER is right? You know WHY it's STILL CELEBRATED TO THIS DAY? Ridiculous. I can't believe you have the audacity to call others pathetic after posting that tripe.

Celebrated?

A trauma, is something that is pictured onto the person involved in such a strong way ... that it is never forgotten. IFF, the events took place in the way the bible described them. It would have been a horror event, a trauma both onto those who received it and onto those who had to see it pass by their doors.

You don't celebrate a trauma ... no one does. Unless you are the "third" person, who has been told and is not related to the events, in any way. As a third person, the story sounds fantastic to you.

Saying "it's celebrated" ... is like saying somebody would ever celebrate the Holocust. Do you really think, that it would be a disctinct possibility that ANYONE, on EITHER SIDE would celebrate it?

NO ... not even a DISTINCT possibility. However, the events of the war will leave significant marks upon all those who participated ... on both sides. And this, more than anything ... will reveal their true nature.

And to all those who had to live it, if it occurred, it was a horror story ... the modern, as well as the past.

And the color of red, the color of the lamb blood ... would have a significant meaning in the mind of all those who survived.

And it does ... we use the color red, to sign STOP. DON'T. We use the color red, to paint things that are going BADLY. And we'll react about 10 times faster, to the color RED than to any other color.

Except in China, in China the color red signs GO. The stock market, that is going UP is colored RED. Oh, and in China the color RED is used to ward off SPIRITS.

Kind of strange, that this is a tradition in China ... and that the Chinese and Egyptians evolved at the same cultural time. But the Jews, evolved AT LEAST a thousand years later. The thousand year Kingdom, is Chinese ... that's sort of a revealing fact, really.

That's why the academia says you CAN'T roll the dice to suit your needs ...

The bible is a collection of stories ... that should not be used, as a book of facts.

The guy currently in my avatar, pharaoh Senvosret III is by some believed to have been either the historical Joseph or the pharaoh whose dreams Joseph interpreted.

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
I have seen a lot of people around here claiming that Exodus is a completely fictional story and there is no evidence it happened, when that simply isn't true. There is a lot of evidence for the biblical story of the Hebrews in Egypt (including Joseph, of technicolor coat fame).

There is evidence that there were Hebrews in Egypt. But there is a severe lack of evidence that there was an Exodus; that the Hebrews lived in the desert for 40 years; that the Hebrews were slaves; that the 10 Commandments were given to Moses on a mountaintop; that the Egyptian Army was wiped out while crossing the Red Sea (or the Reed Sea ... take your pick).

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
I have seen a lot of people around here claiming that Exodus is a completely fictional story and there is no evidence it happened, when that simply isn't true. There is a lot of evidence for the biblical story of the Hebrews in Egypt (including Joseph, of technicolor coat fame).

There is evidence that there were Hebrews in Egypt. But there is a severe lack of evidence that there was an Exodus; that the Hebrews lived in the desert for 40 years; that the Hebrews were slaves; that the 10 Commandments were given to Moses on a mountaintop; that the Egyptian Army was wiped out while crossing the Red Sea (or the Reed Sea ... take your pick).

In Hebrew and most other Semitic Languages and cultures (like Arabic) the number 40 is to be understood as "many" or similar, much like we use "hundreds" or "thousands" in English. There are "a fourty examples" of it: Flood: rained for 40 days, Moses spent 40 years in the desert, Jesus spent 40 days fasting, Alibaba and his 40 thieves.....

The part where Moses and a pack of Hebrews spends 40 years in the desert, means that Israel lived as nomads for a long time, perhaps hundreds of years even or even shorter time than 40 years, depending on how you interpret the story.

However, the field of "biblical archaeology" is a joke. Cons and frauds is the rule it seems. Then again, how else can you present the finds of unicorn eggs and Noah's Ark?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

It could have been 5 years .. it could have been hundreds of years .. or anything in between. The fact is that there is absolutely no archeological evidence that hundreds of thousands (more like 2 million by some estimates) of Hebrews were living in the desert. There are no pottery shards ... no bones of the dead ... no bones of the animals slaughtered for food ... no trinkets or clothing or anything (and the desert would have preserved these things). Not a single thing to show that large of a number of people lived in the desert for any significant length of time.

The part about the Egyptian Army being lost in the Red Sea is poppycock. Egyptian records show very conclusively that, right after the time that the wipe out was supposed to happen, the Egyptians won significant military battles. If the army and the weaponry and the chariots and horses were all wiped out like the Old Testament story claims, then Egypt couldn't have gone on to win battle after battle. They would have been invaded and overrun. But that didn't happen.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Well, I am sure that you would find tons of evidence for Semitic nomadic tribes all over the ME.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The numbers alleged to be with Moses are hundreds of thousands up to 2 million.
There is no evidence at all to substantiate that many Hebrews left Egypt enmasse.
And evidence that the Egyptian Army was wiped out ... well ... the evidence
points to the exact opposite. They won huge battles right after the exodus was
supposed to have happened.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Remember that these stories were originally part of a vast oral tradition. Storytellers would add new stuff as time progressed and all experiments I know of tapping into orally transmitted storytelling, shows that the stories develop, sometimes into the absurd. The Exodus story may for all we know have been totally different in 1000 BC than when it was written down on paper a few hundred years later. The Midrash tradition does show good results in accuracy when it comes to transmitting stories though, so they had ways of securing story accuracy.

There's no evidence that king Osiris ever lived and then was dismembered and rejoined by his wife, who magically was impregnated from a golden phallus, thus rebirthing her dead husband through their son.

We could eliminate half of the religion threads on ATS with one simple understanding.

THE BIBLE IS NOT A SCIENCE BOOK OR HISTORY BOOK (in the modern sense)

OP this is no offense toward you. I enjoy discussing these things don't get me wrong. And mainly my yelling is at christians who try and defend the bible for what it is not.

Then that gets transferred to non-christians who say "look, this book is a bunch of crap because its not true according to science or history".

NO FECAL MATTER! (my swear sensor)

That is NOT the point. The exodus is not a modern historical account. It is part of a founding myth. There are some vestiges of history in there, but its put together to tell a story.

What are some of the vestiges? Look at Serabit El-Khadim, with its semitic miners, where you find the first alphabet, and also the earliest evidence of YHWH. (my sig thread discusses this)

The hysksos are very likely a vestige. Some have put forward Imhotep as Moses. I don't know

Was there a guy named moses who led some people out of Egypt? Maybe. Did it look exactly like the story we find now? Nope. Numbers, names, places used in the bible are all symbolic. Thats how the ancient world worked. These symbols transmit information across generations. The mytheme is our modern conception of this.

Like Utnapistjim said, the number 40 was symbolic. Ill add my take on 40. It is the gestation cycle for humans in weeks. The entire story is a spiritual story, from a spiritual book.

At the beginning of the bible we should read a disclaimer.

"The following story is inspired by real events, the names, dates, and places have been changed for artistic representation"