Is Gun Violence an Epidemic?

Here is another metric that contributes to what people think about increased gun violence, School Shootings Over Time

Really interesting data for US going back to the 1800's. But here is what caught my eye:

Decade #of incidents
1990's 36
2000's 48
2010's 98 so far

That is a HUGE uptick of school shootings.

originally posted by: intrepid
It's not good news on the US front.

I'll also point out the elephant in the room regarding the USA and crime. It seems to be a fond passtime for foreigners to compare the US' stats with those of some of the more poverty stricken, crime riddled, disease laden nations and use that as a strike against American policies and laws. While I don't entirely discredit the fact that the US has some really poor policies (I do not consider anything from the Constitution to qualify as even remotely "poor policy") I think political correctness has obscured the primary cause of those stats.

The residents of those "third world" countries are the #1 immigrants to the United States and my goodness have we ever taken in a lot of them. Currently we have scores of them illegally crossing our Southern border and we're mired with a worthless "leader" who has done nothing to stop it and everything to encourage it (but that's a topic for another thread.) Anyway, what do people expect? If you're the number one destination for migrants fleeing a society which glorifies crime, lives in squalor, has no respect for law, and is entering your country without a dime to their name after being accustomed to surviving in abject poverty, doesn't it make sense that the entrenchments of those cultures into your own is going to bring a lot of their issues along with them?

This isn't a racial thing, either. It's a cultural thing. I don't care what PC wants to do... the bottom line is this, if you have a friend that calls you up and says "Hey, my roomate has bedbugs and they're driving me nuts. Do you mind if I grab my stuff and move in with you?" The logical answer will always be "Hell no, then I'll have bedbugs, too." Logic should override emotional "we have to be open to help these people" policies and responses.

originally posted by: blargo
Here is another metric that contributes to what people think about increased gun violence, School Shootings Over Time

Really interesting data for US going back to the 1800's. But here is what caught my eye:

Decade #of incidents
1990's 36
2000's 48
2010's 98 so far

That is a HUGE uptick of school shootings.

Did I miss the part where this started being about school shootings?

You can thank the interweb, social media and the MSM for that.

Now back to the topic at hand....

originally posted by: blargo
Really interesting data for US going back to the 1800's. But here is what caught my eye:



Decade #of incidents

1990's 36

2000's 48

2010's 98 so far



That is a HUGE uptick of school shootings.

Occam's Razor...
psychcentral.com...

From 1988–1994 through 2005–2008, the rate of antidepressant use in the United States among all ages increased nearly 400%

Usually the answer is right in front of us, we're just too conditioned to only seeing what the media wants us to see, which is the firearm in this case.

a reply to: blargo

But this trend is not due to our constitutional right to arms.

As others have pointed out here this is a product of media glorification.
These people are seeking to leave a mark. To go out with a bang.

While these incidents tend to cluster in certain areas and seem to be a driving factor, they are not.

Generally rape is a statistical anomaly as well. But around college campuses that number tends to spike dramatically. But that spike is not indicative of the overall trend, or lack there of, but a contributing factor already in play.

a reply to: projectvxn

Not if you compare the recent history of the wild west and nowadays. Back in the old west when crime was at its lowest. Those who did break the law in those days went down in history, names like Jesse James, Bonnie and Clyde, Doc Holiday, Pretty Boy Floyd, to name just a few.

Used to be the exception to hear of a bad guy, now to hear about the good guy is the exception.

a reply to: OptimusSubprime
Good point, so we now know evil is the root.
But what is the root of all evil?
Not money but greed, people who want their share and a few others...hell take em all!
Money is not the root, it is just a tool as well.
If we wanted world peace, we should do away with the greedy, we all know who they are.

a reply to: antar

The media doesn't cover the good guy. Ever.
But there are numbers

Not just NO, But HELL NO. We got a lot of unstable people who with or without guns are gonna do somebody somewhere some harm. It's the person......not the tool the person uses.

originally posted by: intrepid
Don't know about "epidemic" but when you are in the same category as many Latin American countries for gun violence there's definitely a problem.

en.wikipedia.org...

Why do you use Latin countries as a bad indicator? Which countries do you specifically have in mind?

Incidentally, the number of Latinos in the US is greater than all of Central America combined and growing by tens of thousands weekly.

originally posted by: intrepid
Don't know about "epidemic" but when you are in the same category as many Latin American countries for gun violence there's definitely a problem.

en.wikipedia.org...

Actually this is not indicative of a problem because the number of guns must be taken into account. Many more guns in America with the same rate of slayings involving guns means that the aggregate is completely different. To put it another way, a country with less guns but with the same amount of gun violence is definitely "worse" in that regard. That means a larger percentage of people with guns are killing other people.

Not surprising when you have a culture that glorifies violence war and death in its media .. toys and video games that further indoctrinate them from young that the only way to solve problems is by killing those they disagree with or who dont conform to their idea of how the world should be ..
lack of parental guidance .. broken homes .. an economy in the toilet .. illegal / immoral wars for profit and resources around the world ..

Maybe one day the few left standing will look around and realise their way was wrong and learn to solve problems in a calm rational civilised manner .. more likely the remaining few will shoot each other .. in the end there will be none ..

reply to: openyourmind1262

But it is the gun that, perhaps more than any other tool or instrument, allows them to propel their issues at another person from a distance. Only a gun so keenly and quickly closes the distance between their mental issues or volatile state and another, possibly unsuspecting, person.

Sure other tools can kill, but they are far more personal and offer the other person a better chance at survival.

Really, when you think about it, guns are the instrument of choice for the weaker and more disenfranchised.

Perhaps that's why so many white males are unwilling to compromise on their right to have them. They are so often lamenting that they are the lowest rung on the society's ladder these days.

originally posted by: antar
a reply to: projectvxn

Not if you compare the recent history of the wild west and nowadays. Back in the old west when crime was at its lowest. Those who did break the law in those days went down in history, names like Jesse James, Bonnie and Clyde, Doc Holiday, Pretty Boy Floyd, to name just a few.

Used to be the exception to hear of a bad guy, now to hear about the good guy is the exception.

According to the chart in this article the murder rate in the late 1800s is about the same as it what was in 2013.

And mother jones is not exactly a fan of the second amendment but even they can't deny the plummeting gun homicides in recent decades.

The US Murder Rate Is on Track to Be Lowest in a Century
www.motherjones.com...

a reply to: OptimusSubprime

Agreed, Humanity is in a pretty steady decline. Even besides Gun violence.

"Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me"

Since the fall of man, evil is in our nature. As you said the farther we move away from god the more we are going to delve into this evil. The thought that we need guns doesn't help. Take away guns and everyone will have to buy butterfly knives.... or worse PICKLE JARS!!!

12 Unusual Murder Weapons Used In Real Life

a reply to: intrepid

Well, I'm going to be controversial here, but:

Feed America stats

In 2012, 46.5 million people (15.0 percent) were in poverty.
In 2012, 26.5 million (13.7 percent) of people ages 18-64 were in poverty.
In 2012, 16.1 million (21.8 percent) children under the age of 18 were in poverty.

wealth inequality in America

Just prior to President Obama's 2014 State of the Union Address, media[3] reported that the top wealthiest 1% possess 40% of the nation’s wealth; the bottom 80% own 7%. The gap between the top 10% and the middle class is over 1,000%; that increases another 1000% for the top 1%. The average employee "needs to work more than a month to earn what the CEO earns in one hour."[4]

SSA wage calculations

Based on data in the table below, about 67.1 percent of wage earners had net compensation less than or equal to the $42,498.21 raw average wage. By definition, 50 percent of wage earners had net compensation less than or equal to the median wage, which is estimated to be $27,519.10 for 2012.

With all due respect to my fellow Americans, I think it is arguable that, by many metrics that actually matter to the people on the ground, we may very well not be a 1st world country anymore.

originally posted by: AnIntellectualRedneck

With all due respect to my fellow Americans, I think it is arguable that, by many metrics that actually matter to the people on the ground, we may very well not be a 1st world country anymore.

I only disagree with you because the definition of poverty has changed over the years. Of course anyone who points out this fact is immediately labeled a hater or greedy or some other emotional mumbojumbo buzz-term because this fact is inconvenient for certain politically minded folks to address. 30 years ago, poverty meant no phone, no cable, no car (or a POS car and no $$$ for gas), no fashions, and often no smoke and no drink. I will say someone who is "poor" may be able to have some of the luxuries I mention today... but impoverished? Hell no.

I would also say that, if we're no longer 1st world, why in the blue hell is there an ever increasing exodus of iullegals barging into the US?

I don't feel it is, the media's portrayal of it is.

The epidemic I believe is young losers who are dying to feel their important and be famous.

There is one sure fire way you can be famous now days instantly and get your face on every TV screen, magazine cover and newspaper for days or weeks.

Get a firearm and go shoot a few people... Instant fame. The American idol generation.

Everyone thinks their a great singer and auditions because they believe they are special. Been told that since day one by parents, teachers, counselors, clergy, and all the media.

Give them participation trophy's for losing the game, no matter how much they don't apply themselves pat them on the head and tell them it's OK, your special!

They grow up and hit the "get out in the world and stand on your own" age and realize they aren't special, they are actually not as smart, talented, intelligent or good looking as some other people...their world crashes down.

Disagree if you like, but I truly feel that has a lot to do with it.

Do your kids a favor early on....don't baby them. Make them earn everything they want in life.

Let them know You love them but their no different than everyone else out there and they have to pull their weight or get left behind....

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I see where you're coming from, but the stats on CEO vs worker stats are a lot higher than in many other first world countries, and that half the country makes less than 27500 a year is deeply disturbing.

27500 a year is about right at about 13 an hour or so. 27500 doesn't look that bad, right, especially when compared to third world countries, but the truth is that it's a pittance in most places. Where I'm from, it's pretty good, but when the median house price is 188,000 dollars and median rent is 884, that can be pretty dicey and make it hard to find housing when you must earn at least 2.5 to 3 times the rent to get housing in many places.

And, remember, half the population makes less than that. Also, I'm not going to argue about your thought that most poor folks in the country have liquor and smokes and stuff a plenty, all I'm going to say is that you've got to make around the poverty level to get food stamps, and the poverty level is ridiculously low wages (less than 12k a year the last time I checked), yet we've got almost 50 million on them. Poverty level wages are actually semi-livable where I come from, but in many parts of the country, I don't know how in God's name people survive.

Where I'm from, a 1 bedroom is probably gonna run you 450-500 a month, 2-bedroom probably about 600 a month or so. Not too bad if you get a roommate or a couple part time jobs. Where my dad is, though, that 1 bedroom goes up to 6-650 a month, and that two bedroom is 750-800 a month. Those poverty level wages suddenly go from struggling-but-semi-alright to just barely making it.

You take into account the craptastic job market in most places, and those jobs that are available being such low wage, and I feel perfectly justified in saying what I'm saying. Hard work can overcome the odds for some, but not the rest. The math simply does not support a robust middle class, or even working class, anymore, on any level.

a reply to: projectvxn

Saying guns cause gun violence is like saying swords caused sword violence in the Middle ages.
I think people need to put things into perspective.
Just one tiny sample from history: Battle of the Somme July 1 1916.
23,440 killed on the first day alone.
1,120,000 to 1,215,000 casualties total.
I know your thinking “But that's a war”
Those people are still dead and killed mostly by guns.
Is war an epidemic of gun violence?
By the definition of epidemic is sure fits.
“a widespread occurrence of an infectious disease in a community at a particular time.
A sudden, widespread occurrence of a particular undesirable phenomenon. "an epidemic of violent crime"

So which is more deadly a lone nut with a gun or a government?

Note: I'm not saying the government, U.S. or any other, is out to kill you or anything like that.
Not unless you just happen to be in the way of something the government wants