Capitalism doesn't and IS NOT working, it's destructive and creatives poor social incentives

Well Capitalism breeds competition which leads to greed in the extremes. Very destructive greed, as we've seen.

Socialism breeds mediocrity and leads to stagnation in just the opposite problem of Capitalism.

I'm not sure which other system may actually work on the scale of 300+ million different people, with millions of different ideas of how things should be done.

Capitalism may have serious systemic problems...but until something better comes along? We can reform what we have and live with second best to nothing else obvious....or work to destroy our system and congratulate each other at the end...as we have nothing whatsoever to replace it with.

True according to many.

But what happens when mechanization removes the need for human labor?.

What do you figure might happen then?, this is what is happening here which is so seldom discussed.

How does one capitalize on people who no longer have jobs because they are no longer needed to do the work, thus no longer paid for their labor?.

Hmmmmm.

??...

Something better won't just come along, people have to make it happen.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Socialism breeds mediocrity and leads to stagnation in just the opposite problem of Capitalism.

At least that one would possibly have a certain amount of peace associated with it ..Maybe that is the closest to a utopia we can possibly get . a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I suppose certain changes have to be made when the governance of actual people is no longer required.

I suppose the change will be to something that does not yet exist and because it hasn't yet become un-necessary for anyone to toil to survive has never been contemplated.

We need a new method of management, but to manage what?.

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

what happens when mechanization removes the need for human labor?

Or what will supremely powerful oligarchs do with a lot of human dead wood?

Pare down the numbers?

I'm guessing.

a reply to: onequestion

1. As though socialism and communism are BETTER on those scores???????????????????

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL AND GUFFAWS TO THE MAX.

2. My read of the future is that "capitalism" is the only system which

(A) ALLOWS FOR INITIATIVE, ECONOMIC FREEDOM in any functional worth enhancing way [not just economic worth] that's tied to one's own creativity and productiveness.

(B) CULTIVATES INITIATIVE, freedom, autonomy. . .

(C) AFFORDS "each man his own orchard and vineyard" . . . his own home, his own turf, his own family domain, his own castle in all the best senses and meanings . . .

3. Choose whitewashed stinking, polluted, arrogant, tyrannical chicken coop economic systems ran by an elite if you wish. Thankfully, God has a different plan. However, the tyrannical model will reign for 3.5-7 years . . . the worst years the planet has ever seen or ever will see again. THEN you'll get to see how wonderful the alternative systems are.

4. There aren't a lot of options. MANDATED economic !!!CONTROL!!! tyranny is not fun; not life enhancing; not freedom; not productive; not joyful . . . and never will be.

5. It boggles my mind . . . that so many who are in utter screaming rebellion against the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are giddy gleefully stupidly thrilled at the idea of economic !!!CONTROL!!! freak managed utter robotized tyranny for all the human cogs in the human chicken coop factories.

Capitalism has been perverted by greed.

I think capitalism works in it's honest form:
I build something and sell it to you for a fair price.

Todays capitalism:
They build something cheap and screw everybody left and right, then, sell it to you for a 1000 times it's worth.

They keep everything hyper-inflated. Gas should not be 4-6 dollars a gallon in America, but it is. Why? Wall Street speculators. They are responsible for the condition we are in. This version of capitalism does need to be brought down. If everyone(the whole country) would stay home for six months, not buy anything, and live off the land, -the whole system would go bankrupt. It is needed.

a reply to: onequestion

My suggestion is reboot your thinking process.

Greed is a human condition. It manifests itself monetarily, power, status. Any "system" is subject to it.

Seeing the morons that have run all the political/economic systems, I begin to hope there is a ruling elite since we have proven incapable of doing so ourselves and without which we are screwed.

Too many examples of where capitalism has worked, improved standards for the majority and has currently brought the third world into much better standard of living than ever before in history. Not for all, but more than ever before. PERIOD.

Any "system" would work is a sane world with sane participants. That isn't the case. Capitalism is the least worse...by far, at least until the race reboots...LOL

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Yeah... Peaceful socialism. That's a common outcome. I can't say examples don't exist of it working because they do. So do 50-70 million graves across China and Russia to remind us how dangerous it can be.

What do ya think of our odds in America? Would our leaders create a socialist utopia or communist hell?

I know where my money goes for human nature.

a reply to: beezzer

Everyone.

Parts of this planet are already toxic, uninhabitable, and irradiated because of capitalism, war, and greed. And those areas are not static in size. They are growing. That is fact.

Signs of the next great extinction event are all around you. This is why everyone seems sick lately.

Fukushima should have been your alarm clock, and it is well past time to stop hitting the snooze button.

Fracking, as another sign of capitalism and greed. Rather than produce non toxic abundant energy for all of our needs, we inject even more nasty crap into the earth for a few more ounces of oil. Those chemicals eventually make it into our water supply. Why? So big oil companies can stay in power and remain master's of the universe for a few more years? Just to prevent the knowledge that energy is abundant and all around us?

As for those with lots of money, it is gonna be really hard to resupply requirements for life in space, if everything here is dead. If anyone does survive here, their focus will be trying to stay alive, not keep those who indiscriminately killed this planet comfy, without a care.

To compete that irony, you could be labeled a terrorist by just discussing it.

Or, we can recognize it, abandon fear, and put greed in the backseat. Focus on creating a monetary system that restores our environment to pre industrial revolution parameters. Oh and promotes abundance to, so that historically greed becomes a bad word, synonymous with how we view the Spanish inquisition, and Europe's dark ages.

Your choice. Life or death.

Well if you feel the need to have A leader then you get what you got . I always looked at politics in a way of not being led by a one man or ideology of a political stripe . Elect a representative from your community and make them all figure a way to work together .If they cant then find someone who can .I guess it a complicated thing for peoples to get along and the further distance they are apart the harder it becomes .I cant help thinking back to the Natives with snowshoes and toboggans traveling many miles to help the first settlers survive .What kind of a political system would give rise to that kind of social conscious ? a reply to: Wrabbit2000

a reply to: Not Authorized

NOPE.

Due to demonic/satanic Communism wedded to a perverted monopolistic capitalism . . . for the last several hundred years . . . ran by a satan worshiping arrogant greedy elite who love to enslave the sheeple . . .

Their own words about all such . . . in the first link here:

.
twoday.net...

10. "NAFTA is a major stepping stone to the New World Order." - Henry Kissinger when campaigning for the passage of NAFTA.
John D Rockefeller
1839-1937
11. "The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent." Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets.

13."It was not my intention to doubt that the doctrine of the Illuminati and the principles of Jacobinism had not spread to the United States. On the contrary, no one is more satisfied of this fact than I am." The Writings of George Washington 1798 letter.
12. "We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries." David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission, in an address to a meeting of The Trilateral Commission, in June, 1991.
.
14."To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism, and religious dogmas." - Brock Adams, Director UN Health Organization

www.crossroad.to...

www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com...


twga...

Capitalism, like the human body and any other complex system, only works for a time. It has a beginning, where it is weak, but strengthening quickly. It has a point of peak efficiency. And then it has a slow but inevitable decline.
Capitalism, IMHO, isn't a political system, ideology or way of doing things - it is the exact opposite. A way of not doing things that interfere with the complex system that evolves when masses of humans interact with each other. Our cavemen ancestors were capitalists.
Because true capitalism has never really existed (I believe that we would do exactly what our hunter/gatherer ancestors did if this were the case), it hasn't really been tested. What we see in our world is the intersection of capitalism and central planning ideologies. Let me give an example. This may not seem relevant, but think about it as an example of how complex systems can behave when outside forces interfere.
We've been living in our house for about 10 years, and had it built brand new. We live on 3 acres, and before us, there was just wild grass and shrubs. In our infinite wisdom, we had a landscaper remove all the wild grass and planted lawn grass seeds. The result was a total disaster - weeds growing everywhere, gophers invaded our property, and the lawn grass will barely grow if it doesn't get an insane amount of water every year. Its become almost impossible to manage, even 10 years on. This is a problem with many properties - actually, almost every one. Things grow differently when humans interfere. One of the most telling observations is that some weeds grow much better than others. Some weeds just have the right attributes to take advantage of the human interference. These weeds would not have succeeded on their own in a natural environment. Maybe they need soft soil to spread their roots. Maybe they appear nice to human eyes. Maybe they need the abundant water humans throw at their lawn every day. Maybe they grow well within the shadows of the fence posts. Any number of reasons. Just like with the world today. Entities (business/individual) are allowed mostly free action. But some just happen to be better equipped to take advantage of the artificial environment that has been created for them.

a reply to: OrphanApology

So franchises like MCdonalds and Burger King do not exists and manipulate the economic system so the mom and pops restaurants disappear or are bought up. What happens is that a small group of people come together and decide to feed on a bigger group of people by making sure they are the only provider. Just look at the current market of jobs. Jobs are artificially made rare so that people have to put up with lousy deals.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

It is already a communist hell. An elected official recently was quoted that government has proven communism "works." When one takes a neutral position, away from the propaganda, it becomes really easy to see. Not only is the system communist in design, it has been here for a while, and it does not work.

America's unholy fusion of communism and totalitarian oligarch oligopoly corporate military dictatorship war machine has spectacularly failed to meet the basic needs of the people. Even the federal reserve chair can't define our system.

Many parts of this nation now are now showing signs of dilapidated infrastructure and buildings. Just like Soviet era communism before its collapse. Raising minimum wage is not the answer either. At one point, your productive workers will simply give up. Example, if minimum wage reaches my wage, why shouldn't I get a job where I do not have to be productive and can browse the internet all day? During the Soviet breakup, this happened. Productive workers recognized what was going on, and employed themselves in positions allowing them to read books all day.

A radical new paradigm is required.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

The dude preaching contributionism is right, it's great on paper, and seems to be working well in practice.

You get to do what you enjoy and are good at for those around you in exchange for your needs and wants... it works, and makes more damn sense than any of the other systems I've seen.

P

It was the way I was brought up within our community but there were people within that community that were greedy ,jealous or just ignorant . We were basic hunter gathers in modern times .The system makes it very hard to do that with all of the alphabet agencies the Govt's run .And they are the ones with the biggest guns and the prisons . People that do what they can do and love doing don't need the big bucks to do it ,but the brain washing and indoctrination we go through is hard for many to escape . Learning how to be dirt poor is one of the best survival skills one could learn .Like fasting is good for you that not many rich get the opportunity to experience . a reply to: andr3w68

a reply to: BO XIAN

1. As though socialism and communism are BETTER on those scores???????????????????

Seeing how America a so called capitalist country is having to borrow money from socialist and communist countries just to pay it's bills then socialism and communism is doing better.

ALLOWS FOR INITIATIVE, ECONOMIC FREEDOM in any functional worth enhancing way [not just economic worth] that's tied to one's own creativity and productiveness.

You can have the same thing in socialist countries. There are many different types of socialism and when most people complain about socialism they really don't know what they are talking about.

It boggles my mind . . . that so many who are in utter screaming rebellion against the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are giddy gleefully stupidly thrilled at the idea of economic !!!CONTROL!!! freak managed utter robotized tyranny for all the human cogs in the human chicken coop factories.

As opposed to people who are willing to turn control of their lives over to a bunch of people that preaches about something that has never been proven to exist. No person that is truly religious will ever know true freedom because their faith dictates how they should live their lives. So they are controlled just like everyone else that you are talking about.

a reply to: Not Authorized

Well, you've managed to make a better point than I was prepared to get into about how nothing we're watching right now IS actually capitalism, nor has it been for a good part of my lifetime, at least. Varying degrees of bastardizing capitalism with socialism with oligarchy and some special little something tossed in to make it all work as badly as it does for us today.

I hadn't intended to note that we haven't seen capitalism since before everything started going down the toilet for us, but your points make it almost impossible not to note now.

In terms of pollution? I understand there is a real hate for the Capitalist ideology here. That's fine.. I feel as hard about Socialism.

Pollution is by NO means a Capitalist thing or a thing to ANY political or economic system. China (run by the Chinese Communist Party..by name) has the worst pollution in the world for a major world power. Russia is no better than we for long term, perhaps forever polluted lakes and open areas across their land.

America isn't the blue ribbon winner in the pollution horse race. We still just place in the finish for effort.

Pollution is a terrible side of society and human nature within it...but I believe the facts in the world conclusively demonstrate that the ideology running a society has little to nothing to do with determining it's pollution levels or what it's likely to reach.

Just my two cents...but then, I'm a Capitalist and make no excuses or apologies for it. It may not be the best system? I've yet to find a better real world system with demonstrated track record for success among a large and diverse population.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Dear BO,

Read my subsequent post to rabbit. We are the same team in many ways.

My point of view is thus: I no longer believe the fairytales claim or in your version of Christ, or any other propaganda disseminated by the Vatican corporation. Nor, do I subscribe to your heavenhell version of reality. I think there are thousands of universes abounding, all around us. I treat it now, what I preceive it is. I feel that the OT is Jewishcannanite origin mythology centered around the exploits of a violent genocidal war God named YHWH. The NT is a story created by the Vatican corporation sometime after Christ supposedly walked to earth. A story designed to enslave whole populations, in which it has done quite well the past 1500 years.

Christ to me, was probably a Jewish human rights activist, elevated to deity like status for calls to action, and his unfortunate martyrdom.

To continue, lets go to the heart of the matter and my posting style. I do not think any mark of the beast will ever happen. That idea is technologically obsolete. No mark will be needed with facial recognition technology. Thus, my conclusion is that the book of Revelation is obsolete, and, subsequently any writings by the person who called himself John are all obsoleted as well. Abolishing money kills that claim a mark would be needed all together, so, likewise, their would be no reason for a mark to buy or sell. Buying and selling would be obsoleted in an abundance based economy. Summary, it cannot come to pass, so John is a false prophet per the Bible itself. Reference, Deuteronomy 18.

My conclusion with that realization? Christians need to understand how to treat the planet. You have responsibilities to being good stewards to this planet as commanded by your God YHWH, and ironically, the pope too recently.

Including with that, since Revelation is obsoleted, so is the primary fear of a working international one world like government. We need a working international government. Not the current faux one, which means all of what you posted did not apply to my post. NAFTA was made to enrich a few, at the expense of many. That's not a proper international government. That is the oligopoly ripping you of even more, smiling at all of that profit.

See, many of our world problems are caused by this anti world government view.

However, even with that said, I recognize your right to have religious freedom, but your religion too must take responsibility for your planet, or we all die. My religious view is we ultimately are all the Creator.

The end of capitalism, or, whatever this monetary system is, begins the end of Christianity as we know it. Christian eschatology no longer matches current technology. Either address it and update your religion, or it gets placed into the same pile of consideration as all other false religious frameworks that came before it. That's just the way it is.

Lets discuss or problems like rational informed adults, not religious fanatics, OK? And we have some big problems to address. The Pacific Ocean may very well be dying because of how we conduct our economies. Burying our head in the sand waiting for anyone, is not the answer.

It is that simple.

With respect.