Detroit's horrifying collapse accelerating beyond belief

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: smithjustinb

It doesn't prove anything but it isn't being asked to.

Oh. I thought it was.

Anyone watching this for the last few years know the tragedy those pics show. A tragedy it is too....

Im not saying there isn't a story of tragedy surrounding the condition of those buildings. I am saying that they aren't necessarily a representation of economic collapse. I'm also not saying that there isn't an economic collapse under way in Detroit.

a reply to: KarensHoliday

Its to be expected, everything in this world is maintained in fact in the whole universe everything is maintained by something, and like is happening in Detroit when that stops or shifts it just falls apart fast. And Detroit is by no means situated on inhabitable landscape, all of that which you seen in the pictures is just nature taking its course even over something as small as there being little people around.

There are other cities one being Vegas which is basically just a dessert, you turn off the water and resources coming in to that place and it will turn back into a dessert real fast, in a few years you would not even know it was the same place, in a few generations if left untended you would not even ever suspect there was a city there once but for the junk you would find if you dug up the sands. And the same fate eventually can and on a long enough timeline fall every other city out there on the face of the earth. Its just nature taking its course, it happened before on much greater scales then Detroit and will happen again.

OK, first off, your avatar plays hell with my eyes lol

Anyways, anyone seen the movie Blue Collar with Richard Pryor? The height of the auto industry in Detroit and quite a city. Such a shame to see it how it is now

a reply to: Krazysh0t

actually this sentiment is REALLY old. The articles of confederation failed over monetary issues. Many of the time argued that the banks did it on purpose and were actually responsible for the largest counterfeiting scheme meant to undermine the new nation never told.

They screw us, we do nothing, time passes, we forget and the cycle repeats itself.

The thing is we are always catching on a little earlier, a little more in depth, and are increasingly angrier after every fraud.

We really can trace this back to the first issuance of banknotes in Europe and the Rothschild family. I swear to you, one day the entire line of them will be erased from existance. They have never learned when to hold them and when to fold them.

I am not sure if they will survive this round of 100 years or so. I know for a fact they will not in the next one no matter what they do now. They have committed to pushing their luck once again.

It´ll be Ironic, just, and precise. Also very terrifying for them and their own. On the bright side, that's when the real golden age starts. An average construction worker will enjoy singularity and new jerusalem before they do. LOL

Alanis Morissette will be laughing her ass off in her grave.

"its like RAi-iAAAN..."

A lot of things happened to Detroit to get it to where it is now in 2014, looking like Bosnia.

People forget that some of the nastiest issues of Detroit centered around race. Race riots were a part of the cultural landscape in the first half of the 20th Century and definitely during the 60s and 70s. White northern Detroiters had problems with having black co-workers, neighbors, and fellow citizens. This was true in MOST midwest cities and white flight dictated a lot of urban sprawl (look at Chicago, Milwaukee, Rockford, Indianapolis, Gary).

People forget that the Detroit Outfit had a lot to do with business; Berry Gordy was ran out of Detroit by the Detroit Mafia because he took a stand not to pay them off and THAT is why he high tailed it to LA.

GM left Detroit for Auburn Hills due to influence and harassment by the Teamsters, and that also provoked a lot of white flight.

After it was all said and done, between Reagen declaring war on the black workers that remained in the city and the decade of The Chambers Brothers crack coc aine era, Detroit got the hell kicked out of it to the point of no return.

Bringing "film production" there is not going to bring it back.

More importantly, the decay of property/banks sitting on houses is just another knick in the chain to destroy home ownership in the US. Few people born after 1975 can qualify for a loan to buy a house, especially if they are still fighting with student loans. But that is another story.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
Its a result of dependance, both on government, but also on business, and everything else. But mainly its the result of the mental mind frame of the people living there. Funny no how there is nothing wrong with the land itself, in fact compared to other places its pretty dam fertile, but something as little as a job moving to greener shores would stop all them in there tracts. Literally like cattle and sheep, remover the signs point were to go and they all flounder and get lost in a ravine. But what do you expect from fools who all there life's have worked to make other people or even make believe constructs like corporations rich, they literally are like the little fish who swim under the belly of whales in the ocean to and stick to the whales belly to sustain itself.

So much for the whole American ingenuity and creativity they cant even life there life's even though they have access to everything they need to build it right in front of there faces. The whole American dream and society the whole thing is not some long lasting goal or even a stable way of life, its more like a traveling circus picking up and changing on the smallest and insignificant of whims. Reminds me of a vid I saw once, it was about a farmer in Germany I think, the dude was self sustained, even had his own little windmills generating electricity, and not far from where he lived there was a major road, every day he would see trucks moving goods back and forth all day and night, he could not grasp the concept of such silliness.

I think he called it just stupid, I think he could not grasp the concept of shipping so much fruits and other food goods to other parts of the world when you could just grow a few trees there. And he had a good point and baring some places Japan for one what with them being on a island and its getting smaller and smaller every year as they dont have enough farm land, but other places its like whats the point, other then to support the circus round and round it goes. Ah many a cities and countries infrastructure is only held up now a days by the traveling circus and when the circus leaves town, well Detroit is like a poster child of what happens, I mean sure globalization works, but only for the globalists, and there many sheep which feed on the bread crumbs now a days, and that only while there useful. So no I dont think it has much to do if there democrats or republicans, but hey people need hobbies and idols to believe in.

a reply to: ArchPlayer

I've lived in metro Detroit all of my life....and some of your details just don't jive with what I remember.....for sure GM isn't/wasn't in Auburn Hills.....this form 1992:

COMPANY NEWS; Chrysler to Move Its Headquarters

Anyone that can escape Detroit has. No one wants to open a business in Detroit because the only people left are drug addicts and gang members.

I live two blocks out of the city limit of Detroit. I've lived here for 40 years. It has alwasy been a white neighborhood. Detroit use to be the most segregated city in America. There were white areas and black areas. In 2008 when the housing market crashed people walked away from their homes or lost them do to circumstances. There had to of been 15 houses on my street that were foreclosed on. The rich people came in and bought them up. Now they rent them as section 8. The black people have moved out of Detroit to the suburbs. Detroit has been abandoned.

As I'm typing this I hear gunshots coming from across the boarder. This area has become a cesspool. As soon as I can I'm getting the hell out of here. The crime is unreal. Every store in my area that stays open after dark has been robbed. Someone got stabbed on xmas eve walking down my street. I have a neighbor that is mentally challenged. Three goons beat him up took his shoes and bicycle. My cousin works at the dollar store and some black lady came in and asked to use the bathroom. He said sorry they don't have a public restroom. She went to the back corner of the store and peed in the isle. I'm totally sick of living here.

a reply to: KarensHoliday

Correction: not beyond belief. This city was in crash n burn mode years ago. Chicago and Memphis will be next.

I'm not a big fan of Detroit, but a few photos of abandoned buildings doing what abandoned buildings do is not proof that the collapse is accelerating. It is no more indicative of an overall trend than, say, photos of construction are proof that the collapse has been reversed. If you want to show that the collapse is accelerating, you need to find some kind of downward metric--per capita GDP, investment, something like that--that has passed an inflection point and become steeper.

originally posted by: Aazadan
Detroit is a mess. I was there briefly as part of a layover on a Greyhound bus about a year and a half ago. The employees at the bus station wouldn't let you leave and walk a couple blocks to a restaurant because it wasn't safe... in broad daylight. If you wanted to go somewhere to eat (no food places in the bus station) you had to get a taxi to drive you. Even the sidewalks were blocked off from traffic because the buildings were crumbling and there were falling concrete concerns.

The entire city is literally falling apart. There's war zones that are in better condition than Detroit.

The Detroit Greyhound station is not in a particularly dangerous area. The employees and the taxi drivers were running a scam on you. Did you meet the couple that sells little American flags for a "donation" to their veterans and/or women's shelter? That's a scam, too. I don't know about falling concrete; I remember only one tall building nearby, which is across the street from the entrance. Since you only visited once, and you never left the Greyhound station, perhaps this crumbling facade was an anomaly?

a reply to: Village Idiot

yup.

i thought like the OP is a time travelling john titor.

nope.

originally posted by: BobAthome
heres the problem,,

850M divided by 85thousand houses,, $10,000.00 / house,,,seems high?

It's not just houses, it's commercial buildings too. plus the hauling off of all the debris. I can't see doing it for much less than that. They also have to haul off all the crap that's been dumped on vacant lots as well. It's the number the Blight Buster Group came up with, they have been doing it for awhile so I'm pretty sure that number is in the ballpark.

Also, to the point that the decay of Detroit has accelerated, yes and no.
The collapse of the tax base, along with City Pension obligations, horrible political ostriches and lack of meaningful cuts to City workers pretty much put Detroit on thin ice. The "Great Recession" (hate that name) broke the ice.

To be perfectly honest, it's been such a slow and long decline for Detroit, starting with the 1967 Riots, that as a local, it doesn't look rapid. It's only when you kind of do a time lapse snapshot of the whole City that you see it. It's like trying to watch mold grow, you can't see it till it's well established. I've become pretty numb to it all and I am sure many City and Suburban residents of the Metro Area have as well.

There are people trying to reinvigorate the Downtown Area, which has had some success, I might add. Dan Gilbert from Quicken Loans and Cleveland Caviler fame has moved his HQ Downtown and seemingly has bought up most of it. All of the effort over the past 30 years or so has been directed at the Downtown, leaving the City neighborhoods to slowly rot away.

In short, I don't think the City is in worse shape, relatively speaking. It's been so bad for so long, that recently it looks that parts of Detroit are slowly revitalizing. The only hope Detroit has is to slowly try to rebuild a core and then go from there. The Bing Administration had the right idea, even if it wasn't do-able. Vast stretches of the City just need to be totally bulldozed, streets, sewers .....everything and just returned to undeveloped land. The 5 households in a 2 or 3 block city radius that are still inhabited in those neighborhoods need to relocate. It's crazy how much vacant land there is between houses in some areas of Detroit. Providing City services in those areas isn't economically feasible at those numbers. The City need to concentrate it's spread out population and deliver the services to those newly concentrated population centers. Detroit has lost 50 to 60% of it's Peak population, no City could survive that, while trying to maintain the same footprint. Detroit needs to shrink and get lean, mean and thriving in those areas that still have a chance. Some areas ARE too far gone to ever recover.

a reply to: pavil

Racist democrats in action -

Who were these "rich people" buying up the houses and renting them through section 8?

Rich democrats that knew they were going to get their gov't money - and not have to worry about upkeep or keeping their "rentals" in good condition so that "rent=worthy" renters would rent them -

gov't money - democrats - poverty.

It's that simple.

Look at what valerie jarret had planned for chicago -

Detroit, Flint, Michigan were too dependent on the auto industry. Chrysler and Ford were on the ropes financially, and felt they had to hang on and copy GM. Said copying being a big mistake. GM arrogance, with its financial and MBA mismanagement, contributed mightily to the downfall of Detroit. GM dealers would not honor warranties. Poorly engineered GM cars could not compete with foreign competition. Rather than compete, GM chose to continue to do things their way. GM would sign any union contract and pass the costs on to consumers. The chest beating never stopped until their bankruptcy ("we are the world's largest automaker"). How much US auto market share did GM lose? More than Ford and Chrysler market share combined. Arrogance killed GM, and they took Detroit with it.
DeLorean did one thing right, he wrote On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors. www.amazon.com...
When Bob Lutz took the job at GM (after working at Chrysler and Ford) financial weenie CEO Wagoner told him they needed one high level manager who knew cars. For crying out loud, just one?
At this point, Detroit and Flint have now hit bottom, and will slowly improve for a number of reasons. The auto jobs aren't coming back, Michigan needs to generate new jobs in different segments of the economy.

a reply to: Happy1

I would have to disagree....... I see landlords of the area and I am pretty sure they are from both parties. They all see a chance to make money of the collapse of the situation. Not saying it's good or right, but it's not a soley Dem or Republican thing.

a reply to: Matt1951

Matt, the moral of the story of all the industrial wasteland cities is pretty much the same:

#1 Don't be a One trick pony when it comes to your City. Putting all your eggs in one basket, seems to be proven to be a suicidal behavior. Cities that lacked diversification of their economy suffered the worst.

#2 The Death of manufacturing in America, took with it a good chunk of the quality of life that "Middle America" had. Gone, not ever coming back.

originally posted by: Viesczy


5.Even though the population fell 63% since 1950, the municipal workforce fell by just 40%, adding to the strain on public finances.



You really BOLDED #5 like it proved something? So for every 1% of population lost there should be 1% jobs gone? Which jobs?

And how would that thelp that UER you mentioned?

Dying to hear that...

Derek

I didn't bold #5 to prove something I bold it in reference to the post I replied to....

It is called big Government, Detroit's Government was already bloated, and even after the city's population loss of 63% the city's Government employment only dropped 40%. Less people to pay taxes, more Government employees per capita, not good....

Here is a little math...

if you have 100 people and 30 work for the government in one way or another and 15 are unemployed then you have basically 55 people generating taxes to pay for it all.

When your population drops to 37 and now 17 people are still in government you have now close to 50% government workers instead of 30%, add in unemployment of 6 people, and unknowable underemployment numbers, there isn't very many people left to generating taxes is there?

BTW I guess the other 10 are ok with you since #5 was the only one you had a problem with.

originally posted by: pavil


#2 The Death of manufacturing in America, took with it a good chunk of the quality of life that "Middle America" had. Gone, not ever coming back.

I disagree, what comes around goes around. Manufacturing will shift to South America as China becomes too expensive. If we make South America too expensive then it will come home once again. It can be done...

a reply to: Rob48

Maybe it's for the better letting Mother Nature take her course and reclaiming the land.It is very sad indeed.