Seattle approves $15 minimum wage

a reply to: pointr97

I'll challenge you with that.....

SNAP expects families receiving benefits to spend 30 percent of their net income on food. Families with no net income receive the maximum benefit, which equals the cost of the Department of Agriculture’s Thrifty Food Plan (a diet plan intended to provide adequate nutrition at a minimal cost). For all other households, the monthly SNAP benefit equals the maximum benefit for that household size minus the household’s expected contribution.[7]

www.cbpp.org...

a reply to: undo
I understand coops and I like the idea.

I think that problems arise when it scales up though. I think that problems arise when you start asking people to pay more for the only reason that it's good for the group. Some understand the concept. Maybe too cynical, but the majority don't. If it were otherwise, we wouldn't have gotten ourselves to where we are. For better or worse.

I don't know where wages should be set but how bout we shoot for this?

When, dad was the only bread maker in the house, mom stood home making sure the house was clean, clothes washed, cooked, raised the kids to earn and give respect, dad paid for the mortgage, food, clothes and even the occasional entertainment all on one income. Car paid in cash...

a reply to: RobertDeniro
Was your dad an unskilled worker? Entry level? First job ever?

addendum to my prior post:

consider that any items needed to create your item would need to be made by other businesses in the cooperative. so let's go back to your furniture company. you need wood, varnish, lacquer, paint, nails, sanders and so on. companies who make those things would have to be in the cooperative, and have to make those items themselves, not order them from slaves in another country. the ingredients of those items would have to be made by members of the cooperative as well, who also purchase their ingredients from members of the cooperative. in other words, every company in the cooperative, would have to buy only american goods, from american companies who are in the cooperative. this would encourage the growth of new american businesses, as those roles would need to be filled in order for the cooperative to offer products to each other.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: RobertDeniro
Was your dad an unskilled worker?

Define unskilled?

originally posted by: RobertDeniro

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: RobertDeniro
Was your dad an unskilled worker?

Define unskilled?

Entry level job.
No prior experience.
No prior training.
First job ever.

a reply to: Phage

Starred!

Not only minimum wage workers will require increased wages in order to be fair. Skilled workers and those with seniority will expect (and deserve) increases.

Everybody should ask for a raise once per year in line with inflation otherwise their purchasing power is going backwards.

Employers should have no worries in passing on those costs to customers as that is what they already do and it is not their place to complain about that ... that is the consumers job!

Passing the Cost to the Consumer from a Business Owner's Perspective

Basically it is not affecting business profit margin per say ... but is affecting consumers purchasing power ... which of course business should worry about ... but they don't get to complain until after that has destroyed consumer confidence and ruined their business!

And it wont affect all businesses as some products and services are required ... where as things like entertainers and alcohol etc. are a luxuries.

But lets get all technical on this ... each 1c per hr increase per worker per year [2000 working hrs] is $20.oo extra per year that the business has to cover by passing those costs on to the customers.

So going from $9.32 per hr to $15.oo per hr [over 7yrs] is $5.68 per hr increase which equals ...

$5.68 x 2000 = $11360.oo extra per year per worker increase in cost to the customer per business.

That is over a 50% increase!

Those workers live and shop locally so they will be spending that back into the local community BUT that money has to come out of the current community of customers pockets 1st and that is the problem because they don't have it and will need to go into more debt or ask for a raise to maintain their lifestyles!

So wage increase will ultimately force some of the middle class to become poor and some poor to become middle class but will do nothing to alter the overall situation.

Meanwhile inflation will rise 10,000 percent.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: undo
I understand coops and I like the idea.

I think that problems arise when it scales up though. I think that problems arise when you start asking people to pay more for the only reason that it's good for the group. Some understand the concept. Maybe too cynical, but the majority don't. If it were otherwise, we wouldn't have gotten ourselves to where we are. For better or worse.

well the pressure is from the tendency of government to punish business, but when the tax base is dwindling, the pressure switches to them instead, because you can't get blood out of a turnip. in communism, the solution becomes one big massive group of slave workers who support a very tiny upper class. in capitalism, the solution becomes people encouraging the success of each other by supporting one another's endeavors.

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: RobertDeniro

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: RobertDeniro
Was your dad an unskilled worker?

Define unskilled?

Entry level job. - Yes, at the beginning
No prior experience. -Nope
No prior training. -Nope, learn as you go
First job ever.-Nope had a few before

-

a reply to: undo

in capitalism, the solution becomes people encouraging the success of each other by supporting one another's endeavors.

Are you a libertarian!?
Enlightened self interest is a wonderful concept and it does tie into a discussion of minimum wage somewhat. But ultimately capitalism (ideal or otherwise) depends on market forces. A libertarian believes this. And believes that any restrictions on a free market will disrupt a capitalist system.

a reply to: RobertDeniro

Ok. So not really a minimum wage situation then. Your dad was making better than a most basic living wage but let's say it was just that. Let's say he was working that job for a while at that wage and the company hires a new kid, first job ever, single, lives at his parents house, rides the bus...at minimum wage. The same wage your dad is being paid. And your dad now has to train the kid. Good idea? Fair?

Your dad gets pissed, says "You can't pay that kid the same as me! I need a raise!" Boss says "I can't give you a raise because the kid is already costing too much!" Now what?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: undo

in capitalism, the solution becomes people encouraging the success of each other by supporting one another's endeavors.

Are you a libertarian!?
Enlightened self interest is a wonderful concept and it does tie into a discussion of minimum wage somewhat. But ultimately capitalism (ideal or otherwise) depends on market forces. A libertarian believes this. And believes that any restrictions on a free market will disrupt a capitalist system.

well in a cooperative, minimum wage isn't even a concept, because all members of the cooperative are supporting each other. initially you may need a job of some kind to get yourself established but the fee should be minimal since its the amount of people in the cooperative that causes the investment amount to go up substantially. you are encouraged to make your own product as part of the cooperative. let's say you're an artist. you paint pictures on old cans and promote it as a pencil holder or knick knack holder. it may not sound like something you could get a store to sell but in a cooperative, you become your own store, and anyone else in the cooperative can see your product and buy it if they like it. or let's say you are musician and write your own music. you may not be able to break into the record industry, but in the cooperative, people who want some new music, could go to your catalog and buy music from you. and so on and etc.

i think that was originally the way the system was set up, with the exception of the fee. the fee is there to encourage people to buy from each other and to show a return profit on their cooperation as part of the cooperative.

a reply to: undo

I get it. I said I like the idea behind coops. But when you start telling members what they can buy and from who...
Not so much.

This thread is proof that the average IQ is below 65.

originally posted by: Red Cloak
This thread is proof that the average IQ is below 65.

So are you for or against minimum wage increases?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: undo

I get it. I said I like the idea behind coops. But when you start telling members what they can buy and from who...
Not so much.

you don't have to buy from anyone, but you won't be able to take advantage of the profits from the fee investments if you don't. it's an incentive for those who lack the ability to understand why it would be advantageous to buy from american companies selling only american products made from only american ingredients and american labor. how else will we resurrect our economy and stop our slide into oblivion?

Funny how these corporations can afford to pay higher wages in other countries but not here in the states.

Every year the rich get richer and nobody else.

originally posted by: Red Cloak
This thread is proof that the average IQ is below 65.

aww, and here i thought my idea was rather intellectually sound. it takes into consideration cause and effect, the survival of the fittest mentality, the desire to succeed, to own your own labor and so on.