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ICE Violated Rights With Prolonged Detentions

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posted on May, 31 2014 @ 09:45 PM
This may at first look like a negative story, but it's really not. It's a positive one if we're looking toward the future and, aside from accountability which needs seen to at some point, moving out of the past.

Every step forward matters, in my humble opinion.

Lets see what the problem was... Courts always need someone to bring them the problem to decide on, after all.

Mark Reid, a Jamaica-born U.S. resident, brought the class action on behalf of immigrants detained for longer than six months without a bond hearing after he was detained in Massachusetts for more than a year while ICE tried to deport him for non-violent drug convictions. Reid was released earlier this year after he was granted a bond hearing, and continues to fight to stay in the U.S.

Now immigrants or not. Illegal aliens or not. No one should just disappear into our jail and prison system. The casual imprisonment of citizens and visitors alike is how negative world rankings were built. Well...perhaps they still are and it's just something I've chosen to miss. The court was clear on this though and the Judge gave them the 'what for', as it was once said.

" "First, there can be no doubt that members of the class are suffering irreparable harm each day they are detained beyond six months without the opportunity to argue for release," Ponsor found.

"Such detention is an emotional and physical ordeal for class members and is particularly severe for those who have colorable claims for release on bail during the pendency of their removal proceedings," he wrote.

He put teeth in it too.....and doesn't seem to have a sense of humor for excuses.

Ponsor ordered the government to provide timely bond hearings to the class members, who must also be notified of the lawsuit. Ponsor also ordered the government to submit a report detailing the bond hearings held before the order by July 31.
Source: Courthouse News

The solution would be to change the immigration laws (NOT Amnesty, in my view) to reduce the case load, or give the courts robust funding to support the case load being dropped on them (although that gives the third branch more opportunity to check the other two) or a combination of both. I go with both.

...I have another question to ponder here too. Aside from the obvious wrongs this has done to non-citizens (again, legal or not), might this be some basis for precedent in seeing indefinite detention denied in other cases too? Perhaps precedent beyond just immigrants?

It's a side benefit which may or may not apply here, but the meaning for the immigrants is enough. Detainment forever doesn't work. Fix the courts or let them go as our own law says we must. I think that's the simple message.

posted on May, 31 2014 @ 09:56 PM
I alway find it funny that people are breaking the law and want American rights but would get no such rights from the places they came from. I know this case is different but I see it all to often.

posted on May, 31 2014 @ 10:04 PM
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

There is a UN process that supercedes American due process? Right? Or any another country. ICE and TSA are getting being aggressive of us normal travellers. I'm tired of them asking what I carry in my luggage. Where I'm going. How long I will stay there? tired of the Police State

posted on May, 31 2014 @ 10:37 PM
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

While I'm completely against illegal immigration it seems to me that indefinite, no bond detention is worse. If he's here beyond his legal allotted time then pick him up. BUT then give these people a bond hearing at the least, if he runs off let the bail bondsmen deal with him/them.

As far as international ranking of the US I think that ship has sailed. We are the laughing stock of the world at best and greatly despised at worst. Just look at the recent State Department global wide warning for US citizens traveling.. well just about everywhere.

I don't see the congress authorizing more money for the judicial branch anytime soon as we need to keep giving billions to other countries like Ukraine, Israel, etc, etc. To many other priorities for the republicans and the democrats only want to talk about amnesty.

posted on May, 31 2014 @ 10:44 PM
a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

I think it said he was U.S. Born correct me if im wrong.

Second line

posted on May, 31 2014 @ 10:47 PM
At first I thought this thread on "ICE Violated Rights With Prolonged Detentions" was going to be about all the ice still detained in Marquette harbor. Went down there today, there is still a lot of icebergs out there, I guess it is a little abnormal.

If there is a drug related crime involved or something serious, I wouldn't object to the person sitting in the jail for a few months. A year is a little excessive though. The person should be then warned not to come back into the country if the crime was bad enough. Now if that person ever comes back into the USA, the person should be tried as a terrorist and have no rights..
edit on 31-5-2014 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 31 2014 @ 11:14 PM
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I see no wrong with violators "legal or none legal" to be kept in jail for indefinitely time. Violation is a violation be peaceful or not, you brake the law pay the due.

posted on May, 31 2014 @ 11:15 PM
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I would give them what they are crying for. In my perfect system they would be out of this country the same day. I am so sick of people demanding rights they should not get.

posted on May, 31 2014 @ 11:16 PM
a reply to: BlubberyConspiracy

...a Jamaica-born U.S. resident...

It said he's still fighting deportation and that's fair enough. Our system allows him to do that.

Generally speaking, It's the lack of due process for a year or more while being held that I think is the major thing in my mind. Guilty or not, everyone deserves to at least be heard or get that first stage of the process to establish they need to be held, IMO.

posted on May, 31 2014 @ 11:33 PM

originally posted by: BlubberyConspiracy
a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

I think it said he was U.S. Born correct me if im wrong.

Second line

I also said in my second line that this case is different. I was only speaking of the ones that come here in violation of the law and then want protection from the law.

posted on May, 31 2014 @ 11:43 PM
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

6 months?

How about 24 hours?

They are recording and tracking all of our electronic communications in real time but when it comes to someone's freedom, they can take 183 days?

Wrabbit, you make a great point. Plenty of people will say "who cares, theyre a bunch of (illegal) immigrants".

Even if you dont believe in fundamental human rights, take a moment to consider that the loss of our rights usually begins with one specific group before its rolled out to everyone else.

So even if this doesnt affect you now, it will probably affect you in the future.

edit on 31-5-2014 by gladtobehere because: wording

posted on Jun, 1 2014 @ 07:00 AM
My view is all illegals should be charged with illegal entry and given one year in jail then deported.

How many would come across the border if they knew of the chance of being held for a year and not making any money to send back to there families.

posted on Jun, 1 2014 @ 07:21 AM
I believe that the longer you stay in jail, "mean for a legal resident" accuse of a violation with possession of drugs to sell and distribute under the law is a minimum of one year to seven years depending if weapons were found at the scene of the crime, the time to spend in jail until court hearing is deducted from the sentence/

(I used to work for an immigration lawyer back in the 90s)

So is not unusual to keep a person with enough reasonable and proven guilt prisoner without bond due to the fact that he can leave the country before justice is serve.

Is all legal actually.

For what I see is that this man is now lobbying for illegal immigrants right to due process, that to me only applies to legal residents in the nation.

But he is using his example of what is happening to legal residents that has been kept in jail longer than what he is claiming necessary, but at the end he did violated the law and actually is no uncommon to keep the person in jail longer than the law of the states stipulate for certain violations.

In other words depending the sentence that would not be less than one year he actually served time.

posted on Jun, 1 2014 @ 01:42 PM
a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

Oh, cudos.

I didn't have time to read through this particular article, please continue though I must add, don't we see terrorists born in other parts of the world constantly getting "due" legal process in the U.S.?
edit on 2014 by BlubberyConspiracy because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 1 2014 @ 02:41 PM
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I don't have a problem with this unless they are beating the people during their extended stay.

It's Known, if you go into another country illegally you may be in jail for many years and this Is common in many places. In many countries if you try to cross the border you get shot on sight with no questions asked. ICE letting these guys sit and stew for 6 months is no big deal at all - they should be grateful ICE is this easy on them. In fact, getting detained by ICE for 6 month looks from here rather like the icing on the cake - those illegal criminals couldn't ask for better treatment.

posted on Jun, 1 2014 @ 03:09 PM
a reply to: JohnPhoenix

...and what about the occasional one who isn't guilty? If they don't get that first step of the process, it's not going to matter how much they can prove. Jail guards don't care. Not their job, honestly. It's the courts job to handle and process the cases and if they can't, their job to find the bottle neck and uncork it.

Times have changed so much I feel awkward even linking to it these days, but it's a funny movie and its a Mexican-American who made it. Born in East L.A. wouldn't have been quite so funny with ICE detention for 12+ months before bothering to give a guy a shot at saying 'Hey! You screwed up!'.

posted on Jun, 1 2014 @ 03:32 PM
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Great movie, one of my favorites. (Heck I think I'll watch it now)

For the few who are here legally and they get caught in the sting - well they should have proper papers in order or if not on them, ICE should have the resources to double check that person real quick. Same with folks like our Hero of the movie here who are citizens who just get caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. There should never be an excuse for detaining someone illegally who has not broken the law.

Might there be good reasons while they detain some folks for so long and not others I might ask..

Take potential Cartel members for instance. Cartel members and sudo members - the mexican kids who they use to do their drug running around in America are all over every major city in America. These guys kill and kill indiscriminately - just look at the popular websites like best gore to see live beheadings of innocent people. They may need to do a deeper investigation on these people so they will have a good reason not to let them go back and find something they can make stick.

I do not believe though this 6 month extended stay is applicable to most detainees so it's not a big problem for a bottleneck. For most, they should be able to get the folks deported back to Mexico asap.

posted on Jun, 1 2014 @ 04:41 PM
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

While I can see that you are trying to bring a valuable point to the issue of incarceration without due process, this article is something totally different.

Actually after researching on the cases of illegal immigrants and the US laws concerning the illegal entry into US soil, I actually do not see anything that has to do with improper handling of these illegal immigrants at all.

An immigrant may be classified as illegal for the following three reasons: the individual enters without inspection or authorization, the individual stays beyond an authorized period following legal entry, or the individual violates the terms of legal entry.

The laws revolving around illegal entry or overstaying are found in Section 1325 in Title 8 of the United States Code. This section, titled “Improper Entry of Alien” will provide a fine or imprisonment (or both) for any immigrant who:

1. Enters or attempts to enter America at any time or location other than what was designated by the United States Government (immigration official, or

2. Any individual who eludes inspection or examination instituted by the United States Government and its immigration agents, or

3. Any individual who attempts to enter the United States by providing a false or misleading representation of oneself or through a willful concealment of fact. For instance, if you provide a false passport, driver’s license or pretend to be anyone else, you will be charged with attempting to enter the United States in an illegal fashion.

The maximum prison sentence for an individual caught in the act of violating immigration policy is 6 months for the first offense and additional 2 years for any subsequent offense.

Interestingly most illegals will brake the law over and over again coming back into the country after deportation.

Also it seems to me that the person making all the hype in the article do not have much leg to stand up as been a felon itself American or not.

I believe that all this hype is more about the debated immigration reform that anything else, because let faced Obama has slacked very much when it comes to immigration in his 6+ years in the white house.

Lately illegals has been asking for special treatment that only legal American citizens are entitle too.

edit on 1-6-2014 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 1 2014 @ 08:21 PM
They released these criminals.

In 2013, ICE freed 36,007 convicted criminal aliens from detention who were awaiting the outcome of deportation proceedings, according to a document obtained by the Center for Immigration Studies. This group included aliens convicted of hundreds of violent and serious crimes, including homicide, sexual assault, kidnapping, and aggravated assault. The list of crimes also includes more than 16,000 drunk or drugged driving convictions. The vast majority of these releases from ICE custody were discretionary, not required by law (in fact, in some instances, apparently contrary to law), nor the result of local sanctuary policies.

These figures call into question President Obama’s request to Congress for permission to reduce immigration detention capacity by 10 percent in favor of permission to make wider use of experimental alternatives to detention. These alternatives already are subject to serious questions about their efficacy and cost, and ICE’s methodology for evaluating the results needs to be carefully scrutinized. The reduced detention bed-space request, submitted as part of the executive branch’s budget plan, comes at a time in which ICE’s detention space needs are expanding due to rapidly increasing illegal arrivals along parts of the southwest border and continued high numbers of criminal aliens encountered by agents in the interior. The news that ICE released so many criminal aliens convicted of so many serious and violent crimes suggests that ICE could use more detention capacity, not less, in order to prevent further harm to the public from these individuals. ICE should be asked to track and disclose what additional crimes may have been committed by these individuals after their release.

We have some illegals held because their own country don't want them back.

Illegal immigration is a huge problem and has been for many years.
edit on 1-6-2014 by Night Star because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 1 2014 @ 09:08 PM
a reply to: Night Star

Yes I read about the problems with illegal immigration, they are not only the people looking for a better life, but also hundred of thousands of criminals that have found an open door with the immigration debate to bring their criminal acts to the US because here they get better protection than in their own country.

The irony.

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