There Might Be 100 Million Planets In Our Galaxy With Complex Life

Always the same conundrum. If complex (and potentially intelligent) life is so abundant, why hasn't it found us, or we it? Can't have it both ways, really.

a reply to: JadeStar
An interesting theory. But the definitions on life and intelligence is pretty much a narrow view, life itself is of no consequence and intelligence is merely a matter of perspective even of mass opinion, in most cases its just a median for the average conceptualization of a groups of people. There would be plenty of other life out there even intelligent life, even greatly vast intelligent life, that is not really the question. The question is, would you any of you know it even if you saw it. They say when Columbus and the Spanish first sailed on the new world the natives could not grasp the scope of there ships and hence there mind blanked it out, they literally saw nothing when they looked out there, because there minds could not grasp something like that. As you see being invisible to the greater world is not that hard to do.

How about this, what if the human race leaves this planet? What if they colonize this solar system? what if they move on to another solar system? what if billions of years from now they do the same in another galaxy? what if trillions of years from now there everywhere in the universe? And what if in all that time they will never find anything that is not like them or that they have not at one point created, what if for eons and eons you will never find any other life out there...Ever?

What then? What if this game is all there is, just build it up, break it down, and move on to greener pastures, ie other planets and solar systems?

What if were all just here to eat the sandwich, and what if its been done before, and what if everybody in the known universe knows it? Intelligent life, and civilizations, life itself is merely a matter of perspective. And every creature that has ever existed and ever will thinks its the center of the universe, which is false. However what is true is that its the center of its own universe.

What if all you say OP is kind of silly, but in any scope beyond your perspective, it just does not matter and never will, what if there have been countless others who have colonized the stars and in time just faded away. Like Joe Rogan in the bellow vid said, what if were just here to eat the sandwich? For all you know we can just be microbes for another type of lifeforms, merely automatons going about our prescribed and predestined even programed existence, and all for a purpose we can not even ever hope to grasp, the same way microbes in a petri dish can never hope to grasp why there there and who put them there, and yet none of that disqualifies or the fact that they in there short spans will be there, doing as they do, as they always done. Be fruitful and multiply.

I give you credit for you thread while interesting and very perky. I just have to say that there is a myriad of ways any and all of this can be interpreted. Your take on things is but one, what I said above another, and there are yet others. But I just dont think life or even intelligent life in the scope of things is all that important.

originally posted by: stormbringer1701


They have a decentralized brain with neurons distributed throughout their bodies. evidently they are massively parallel processors. intelligence is not necessarily related to brain volume either as there are very bright birds with a brain the size of a marble. but there are mammals with bigger brains than ours. elephants, whales, dolphins. and so forth.

I always like to say that the most intelligent species in the universe is most likely a sponge like creature on another planet, smart as hell but can't do much with it...hehe

Intelligence is just one piece of the puzzle to create a intelligent spacefaring species. I don't see elephants or dolphins going to space anytime soon as good examples of that would most likely be more of the norm for other intelligent life.

The other thing is what do we do with this other intelligent life. We cant even communicate with the intelligent life on our own planet much less really alien intelligent life forms.

BTW you are missing the critical aspect that makes our brains so much better... it is not the size but the amount of energy that is pumped into it. Basically 1/3 of all the energy you put into your body (food/O2) goes to the brain to keep it functioning as it does. No other animal comes close to that.

originally posted by: Ross 54

The fact that we have not be overtly contacted by extraterrestrials doesn't seem an especially convincing argument against the possibility of our planet being a protected preserve.
The sort of obvious presence such contact implies could be deemed undesirable and disruptive to our cultures, which they would, in this scenario, seek to protect.

We may have been shown or even accidently seen signs of an otherwise elusive tutelary civilization. We may not have realized what we were seeing, and/or not agreed on the meaning of what was seen.

I think this scenario is totally bull....

So another race would not step in to help guide us in a good direction to save us and our planet, and to speed up the process of natural evolution? There must be a good amount of smart civilizations that wipe themselves out, so we need to pass some bar of not killing our species off to earn the right of contact?

This is only an extremely convenient scenario to explain no contact so far.... As I said totally Bull...

BTW I do not think another race would even be able to communicate with us much less think of us as a no contact race...Think of an alien intelligence many times different than the dolphin intelligence...The whole idea of humanoid aliens running around is pure human invention.

originally posted by: Ross 54 This occurred again and again in a number of primate and hominid species.

But it wasn't until 4.5 billion years that earth broke the code on the whole intelligent primate thing. Intelligence prior to the primate only gave the species a better ability to hunt, and we need to really look at what drove our intelligence well pass what would be considered the standard level needed for evolution. Was it a combination of our thumbs and communication skill sets that pushed our brains well past anything really needed for survival?

As someone said the elephant is extremely intelligent but were has all that intelligence got that species so far.

originally posted by: stormbringer1701


Further thoughts:

perhaps they are immortal. perhaps they have achieved the mythical singularity and uploaded themselves to a super computer. maybe even the information substrate of the universe postulated to be the final form of the GUT theory of everything.

Lots of "perhaps" in your post. The bottom line is that none, zero of all these races have gone the direction of colonization, none, or they would have already been here, that is the point.

Also all these different examples of yours are totally worthless to us as a species since they have come and gone into some higher realm...they might as well not exist for us then, so same situation as if they never existed.

No I don't think tptb will fall and the status quo will continue
a reply to: Rainbowresidue

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: stormbringer1701


Further thoughts:

perhaps they are immortal. perhaps they have achieved the mythical singularity and uploaded themselves to a super computer. maybe even the information substrate of the universe postulated to be the final form of the GUT theory of everything.

Lots of "perhaps" in your post. The bottom line is that none, zero of all these races have gone the direction of colonization, none, or they would have already been here, that is the point.

Also all these different examples of yours are totally worthless to us as a species since they have come and gone into some higher realm...they might as well not exist for us then, so same situation as if they never existed.

I do not think colonizing the whole of space like some kind of bizarre bacterial colony would necessarily be the hallmark of a truly advanced civilization. It seems to me a truly advanced civilization would be much more picky about which star system/planet they chose to exploit choosing places that harbor exotic elements or matter or picking places near natural macroscopic wormholes.

Also the more advanced we have become the lower our reproductive rate has become for another thing. they may have such low rates that there is no pressure for them to expand.

originally posted by: stormbringer1701


I do not think colonizing the whole of space like some kind of bizarre bacterial colony would necessarily be the hallmark of a truly advanced civilization. It seems to me a truly advanced civilization would be much more picky about which star system/planet they chose to exploit choosing places that harbor exotic elements or matter or picking places near natural macroscopic wormholes.

Also the more advanced we have become the lower our reproductive rate has become for another thing. they may have such low rates that there is no pressure for them to expand.

What earth isn't good enough for them? I'm not saying colonizing everything, but they would have time to explore all, even earth, so either earth isn't good enough or no one has reached that point yet to do it. The point is there has been plenty of time to cover our galaxy many times over if there ever was a species that reached that level.

With total absents of any then one concludes all are just homebodies or none have reached the capabilities yet...

a reply to: JadeStar

Yet there just as easily could be only one!

Great work with the thread but Drakes equation is worked out by applying guess work to assumptions!

Evidence being collected by Kepler and other instruments are surmounting to a fleshed case for the existence of ET, microbial or otherwise - or at the very least, candidates for alternate future homes (if we ever produce spacecraft capable of warping the fabric of space). It's exciting to know that finding potentially life harbouring worlds is increasing in ease. Mind the cliche, but this is a very exciting time to be alive. I don't buy in to most of the UFO/Ancient Alien conspiracies (I don't rule them out entirely necessarily, but evidence is required - although I understand standards of evidence clearly vary from person to person).

I can't get enough of space exploration news! I don't know why, but it gives me hope in times of such world weariness.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: stormbringer1701


I do not think colonizing the whole of space like some kind of bizarre bacterial colony would necessarily be the hallmark of a truly advanced civilization. It seems to me a truly advanced civilization would be much more picky about which star system/planet they chose to exploit choosing places that harbor exotic elements or matter or picking places near natural macroscopic wormholes.

Also the more advanced we have become the lower our reproductive rate has become for another thing. they may have such low rates that there is no pressure for them to expand.

What earth isn't good enough for them? I'm not saying colonizing everything, but they would have time to explore all, even earth, so either earth isn't good enough or no one has reached that point yet to do it. The point is there has been plenty of time to cover our galaxy many times over if there ever was a species that reached that level.

With total absents of any then one concludes all are just homebodies or none have reached the capabilities yet...

What if all evidence that they have in fact been here has been dismissed by "broom stick up the butt" skeptics? there is an awful lot of what may be more than lore to the contrary.

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

What if all evidence that they have in fact been here has been dismissed by "broom stick up the butt" skeptics? there is an awful lot of what may be more than lore to the contrary.

I don't know, is there truly alien evidence, I mean real evidence not human assumptions?

Everything we see as evidence is nothing more than our speculations. That may be enough for some to be convince but it doesn't really prove anything at all.

So right now there is no contact period. We can't use what ifs and speculations to create aliens.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Always the same conundrum. If complex (and potentially intelligent) life is so abundant, why hasn't it found us, or we it? Can't have it both ways, really.

Good point

The whole thread's premise is based on assumptions right?

Assuming there are 100 million world with complex life

Assume we were caught in between those worlds in our development then there is about 50 million world more advanced than us.

Assume 1 million is advanced enough for space travel.

Assume 10 thousand civilizations do not conform to "star trek rules"

Assume 100 Civilizations won't be ruled by the "elite" on earth or any governments so they can make themselves known to us.

Why isn't my best friend an alien?

The number of worlds where star-traveling civilizations originated in the galaxy is not of the essence. There has been far more than enough time for these various worlds to have become united in a single civilization with a consistent policy toward naive, virtually planet-bound civilization, like ours. The subordinate bodies-politic in a larger united political system do not each conduct the own separate foreign policies.

a reply to: JadeStar

I can't even begin to comprehend the vastness of our universe....when I try I get a headache.

My brain is meltinnngggg!!!

originally posted by: Ross 54
The number of worlds where star-traveling civilizations originated in the galaxy is not of the essence. There has been far more than enough time for these various worlds to have become united in a single civilization with a consistent policy toward naive, virtually planet-bound civilization, like ours. The subordinate bodies-politic in a larger united political system do not each conduct the own separate foreign policies.

The fact that there are multiple civilizations all "getting along" they have bypassed the entire concept of evolution.

Why is earth so special? We cant get along with our multiple races on earth, now we expect thousands of civilizations from different planets to be buddies?

They would not need to have bypassed the process of cultural evolution, merely been at it longer than we have. We have progressed from competing tribes and city-states to, in some cases, nations of large extent, which are at peace within themselves.
Given enough time, our entire planet could become a single federal republic, where nation fighting nation would be no more thinkable than Manitoba going to war with Saskatchewan, or California with Arizona. Given civilizations millions of years our senior, or more, why shouldn't this process extend itself from the planet-wide scale to the entire galaxy, if not even farther afield?

a reply to: JadeStar

Drake equation is made up and is meaningless. There could also be 0, according to the Drake equation.

These are the variables.

N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which radio-communication might be possible (i.e. which are on our current past light cone); (Equation result)

R* = the average rate of star formation in our galaxy (known)
fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets (known)
ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets (known)
fl = the fraction of planets that could support life that actually develop life at some point (UNKNOWN)
fi = the fraction of planets with life that actually go on to develop intelligent life (civilizations) (UNKNOWN)
fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space (UNKNOWN)
L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space (UNKNOWN)


How is an equation with more unknown than known variables meaningful? Basically it says whatever you want it to say based on your bias.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: JadeStar


N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which radio-communication might be possible (i.e. which are on our current past light cone); (Equation result)

I think we need to point out another part to this that Dr. Drake in 1960 had no clue would happen. It seems that a typical up coming civilization would have very limited years of radio-communications before the majority of communications become a very focused closed system. Roughly 100 years is about all you get with what we would consider world wide transmissions of radio-communications, and 100 years is s blink if anyone could catch it they would be extremely lucky.

I think there are other factors that he really didn't see back then too, such as a planet really needs a moon most likely to stabilized the seasons so that extreme temperature ranges do not inhibit life, Also need a huge planet(s) like Jupiter and Saturn to vacuum the solar system allowing evolution to do its thing without frequent resets. We need a long term liquid core too.