NEWS: Red Cross accuses US of torture in Guantanamo, page 1

posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 11:08 AM

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The International Commitee of the Red Cross, Geneva, has found that different torture methods are being used by US interrogators at the prison camp in Guantanamo, Cuba. This contradicts a Pentagon statement according to which the detentions are conducted according to international humanitarian standards.

news.yahoo.com
WASHINGTON (AFP) - The International Committee of the Red Cross has reportedly found prisoner abuse that amounted to "a form of torture" at a US military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Citing a confidential report, the New
York Yimes reported that based on a visit to the detention centre in June, an ICRC team, which included humanitarian workers and experienced medical personel, discovered a system devised to break the will of prisoners through "humiliating acts, solitary confinement, temperature extremes, use of forced positions."

"The construction of such a system, whose stated purpose is the production of intelligence, cannot be considered other than an intentional system of cruel, unusual and degrading treatment and a form of torture," the report said.

...

"The United States operates a safe, humane and professional detention operation at Guantanamo that is providing valuable information in the war on terrorism," the Pentagon statement said.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

The gruesome methods used by the US administration's torturers for 'intelligence gathering' are symbolic of the administrations disdain for justice and human rights. This latest torture scandal at guantanamo validates the claim that degrading treatment and torture against legally innocent victims is being used in a systematic fashion by US authorities around the world.

[edit on 30-11-2004 by Mokuhadzushi]

jsobecky

posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 05:51 PM

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The gruesome methods used by the US administration's torturers for 'intelligence gathering' are symbolic of the administrations disdain for justice and human rights. This latest torture scandal at guantanamo validates the claim that degrading treatment and torture against legally innocent victims is being used in a systematic fashion by US authorities around the world.

Oh, where shall we start?
Legally innocent victims? What about those accused of 'torture'? Are they not also "legally innocent"?

Citing a confidential report, the New

Why is it that all of your accusations against the US seem to cite "confidential reports" or, as in the case of the mass graves, "sources that must remain anonymous", etc., etc? Can it be that they are nothing more than campfire tales, vapors in the mist?

Perhaps instead of our interrogation methods, a video depicting a beheading of a truly innocent victim would be more to your satisfaction?

dgtempe

posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 05:56 PM

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Its my understanding that a lot of folks detained in Cuba were just "suspects". That's right. "suspects"

I say pull the hairs, one by one, out of the terrorists and leave the innocents alone.

Cant tell them apart? too bad. Then we should interrogate them and treat them as we would have them treat us when someone decides to invade this country, in a humane way.

Mokuhadzushi

posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 06:10 PM

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Originally posted by jsobecky
Legally innocent victims? What about those accused of 'torture'? Are they not also "legally innocent"?

The detainees in Guantanamo are innocent because no charge has been filed against them.

Perhaps instead of our interrogation methods, a video depicting a beheading of a truly innocent victim would be more to your satisfaction?

You are mistaken. Most of the victims of beheading get a trial (mostly on grounds of espionage or cooperation with the enemy) by mujahideen prior to being sentenced to death or released. You can argue their trial does not fulfill democratic standards, but they get a trial at all, unlike the innocent detainees at Guantanamo.

jsobecky

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 03:35 AM

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Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
The detainees in Guantanamo are innocent because no charge has been filed against them.

You have conveniently avoided answering my question. What formal charges have been lodged against the interrogators? Are they not also innocent until proven guilty?

You are mistaken. Most of the victims of beheading get a trial (mostly on grounds of espionage or cooperation with the enemy) by mujahideen prior to being sentenced to death or released. You can argue their trial does not fulfill democratic standards, but they get a trial at all, unlike the innocent detainees at Guantanamo.

You are mistaken and incredibly naive. What trial did Margaret Hassan receive before she was summarily executed by the scumbag terrorists? What were the charges against this gentle member of a humanitarian relief organisation?

Corinthas

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 03:41 AM

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The red cross was formed as part of the Geneva convention, the people in "Guano bay" are not subject to the Geneva conventions beacuse of the American linguistic skills that have changed POW to Yankeedoodledandy (or whatever they call 'em) leaving the red cross with no real say in the matter. So you can just guess what the US reply is going to be... something like "Do we look like we care?" might be a good guess.

jsobecky

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 05:27 AM

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When I hear the term ICRC, I automatically associate them with the American Red Cross. I'm sure that many Americans also associate the two. This is wrong; there is absolutely no connection between the two.

The ICRC has a political agenda, and as such, it's reports and findings must be viewed with some skepticism. I hope to post references to this later in the day.

FredT

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 05:39 AM

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Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
You are mistaken. Most of the victims of beheading get a trial (mostly on grounds of espionage or cooperation with the enemy) by mujahideen prior to being sentenced to death or released.

What exactly are you basing this on? What trial did Hassan recieve? What cooperation? She opposed the invasion. Lot of good it did her. DO you have first hand knowledge of this or are you basing this on some noble romatisism you seem to have with these animals?

BTW, what does the Quran say about cutting the head off a an innocent woman?

[edit on 12/1/04 by FredT]

[edit on 12/1/04 by FredT]

Mokuhadzushi

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 08:05 AM

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Originally posted by FredT
What exactly are you basing this on? What trial did Hassan recieve? What cooperation? She opposed the invasion. Lot of good it did her. DO you have first hand knowledge of this or are you basing this on some noble romatisism you seem to have with these animals?

I don't know the Hassan case in detail. It's just one single case. There have been over thirty beheadings caught on camera, and usually the beheading is preceeded by a trial, on charges of 'spying for the ennemy' as in many cases of contractors where these guys where CIA agents dropping bomb target emitters by houses which they thought might contain insurgents (or just people they didnt like), or often, 'comfort/cooperation with the enemy'. I think those crimes would also be charged with death penalty in the US.

BTW, what does the Quran say about cutting the head off a an innocent woman?

If you simply stopped believing the racist islamophobia preached by zionists, you would lead a better life and be closer to truth.

FredT

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 08:06 AM

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Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
If you simply stopped believing the racist islamophobia preached by zionists, you would lead a better life and be closer to truth.

I repeat show me in the Quran where it says that the beheading of a woman is okay?

Surah 81
81:9 For what crime she was killed; ?????

[edit on 12/1/04 by FredT]

DrHoracid

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 08:16 AM

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Again, any "rules-of-war" are the utimate oxymoron. Geneva Convention is complete BS. War has but on rule "WIN" or die. 99% of those poor innocents already released have gone back to pick up arms AGAIN.

History leason folks........the United States won independence form England by not fighting the war by thier rules. The british stood in nice neat lines while the "colonist" hide like cowards behind rocks.

As long as "we" play by some stupid rules the terrorist will always win. This is a fight for survival.......PERIOD.

Volksgeist

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 08:17 AM

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It seems that some are incapable of justifying the treatment of detainees in Guantanamo Bay. Instead they juxtapose the Iraqi "terrorists" with the American military. Do people do this because they are incapable of distinguishing the two, or because they find it too difficult to justify the treatment of "detainees"?.

Most detainees were captured in Afghanistan, and you may have noticed that there have been very few beheadings (if any) in Afghanistan. You may have also noticed that the majority of those captured were directly fighting the US coalition, and served as the practical military of Afghanistan. So why are they not afforded the same rights that captured enemy soldiers have been given for centuries by civilised nations?

[edit on 1-12-2004 by Volksgeist]

[edit on 1-12-2004 by Volksgeist]

Montana

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 08:20 AM

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Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi

usually the beheading is preceeded by a trial, on charges of 'spying for the ennemy' as in many cases of contractors where these guys where CIA agents dropping bomb target emitters by houses which they thought might contain insurgents (or just people they didnt like), or often, 'comfort/cooperation with the enemy'.

Where did this come from?????

Do you have anything to backup this statement?

Carseller4

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 08:25 AM

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"humiliating acts, solitary confinement, temperature extremes, use of forced positions."

Let's face it some Muslims are whiners. Humiliating acts could be as simple as being interviewed by a female while in their underwear. Solitary confinement, uhhh that is perfectly normal. Temperature extremes, I know these people aren't used to AC so that could be extreme, especially during summer in Cuba.

These are the same people who won't tolerate Americans near Mosques, but turn around and use them for sniper attacks and ammunition storage areas.

America is just a target for organizations like the International Red Cross because we give them access.

Mokuhadzushi

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 08:40 AM

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Originally posted by FredT
I repeat show me in the Quran where it says that the beheading of a woman is okay?

Surah 81
81:9 For what crime she was killed; ?????

a) I'm not an expert in sharian law, perhaps the link i provided later can help understand these trials.

b) If you ask me fact-questions about coranic sures, i can ask you if Luther said the following thing : I shall give you my sincere advice: first to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them.

[edit on 1-12-2004 by Mokuhadzushi]

Mokuhadzushi

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 09:00 AM

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Originally posted by Montana

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi

usually the beheading is preceeded by a trial, on charges of 'spying for the ennemy' as in many cases of contractors where these guys where CIA agents dropping bomb target emitters by houses which they thought might contain insurgents (or just people they didnt like), or often, 'comfort/cooperation with the enemy'.

Where did this come from?????

Do you have anything to backup this statement?

I searched yahoo news etc, the only thing i could find is this article in french www.lemonde.fr...

There has been extensive video footage of these trials in September.

soficrow

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 09:26 AM

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Originally posted by DrHoracid

As long as "we" play by some stupid rules the terrorist will always win. This is a fight for survival.......PERIOD.

As I understand it, that's what terrorists say, "As long as "we" play by some stupid rules -America/Israel/Britain- will always win. This is a fight for survival.......PERIOD."

There is a reason civilized people agreed to the Geneva Convention. The challenge is to buy time for the uncivilized to mature - and keep them from destroying themselves or the rest of the world while they grow.

One of the biggest problems in raising developmentally challenged children comes in that inevitable period when their strength and potential do do damage is greater than their wisdom and self-discipline.

...That's when it takes a village to guide them gently, or as in this case, a planet.

.

jsobecky

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 11:30 PM

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Originally posted by Volksgeist
It seems that some are incapable of justifying the treatment of detainees in Guantanamo Bay. Instead they juxtapose the Iraqi "terrorists" with the American military. Do people do this because they are incapable of distinguishing the two, or because they find it too difficult to justify the treatment of "detainees"?.

No, I'll justify it. I don't believe that they are innocent. I don't care if they haven't been charged. We're fighting for our survival, and if we have to hurt them to get the info we need, then, fine by me. Temperature extremes and isolation aren't torture in my eyes.

Most detainees were captured in Afghanistan, and you may have noticed that there have been very few beheadings (if any) in Afghanistan

Wrong. There have been dozens of beheadings in Afghanistan. Remember Daniel Pearl? It was Pakistan where his throat was slit on videotape and the tape sent to his pregnant wife, but liberals like to push that under the rug. The terrorists know no borders between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

curme

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 11:45 PM

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In the USA, far more people are killed by crimminals, than by "terrorists", yet murderers are accused with a crime, and then have a trial to see whether they are guilty. If people are actually guilty, that's another argument. What about people who are tortured, but not accused of a crime? Or given a review to seee whether they commited a crime?

If, in my neighborhood, there was a bounty of say, 1,000 dollars for every terrorist someone turned in, I would be scared out of my wits! For a quick buck, someone could be pounding down my door, and I would have no way to explain my innocence. A couple of years later, after torture, the US might release me out of embarrassment as they have done in Gitmo. You know what? If I wasn't a terrorist before, I'd be damn sure a terrorist now!

jsobecky

posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 11:46 PM

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Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
I don't know the Hassan case in detail. It's just one single case.

BTW, what does the Quran say about cutting the head off a an innocent woman?

If you simply stopped believing the racist islamophobia preached by zionists, you would lead a better life and be closer to truth.

Since you're unfamiliar with the particular case, let me school you:

Margaret Hassan (also Madam Margaret) (1945�November 14, 2004?) was an aid worker who worked in Iraq for many years and was kidnapped and killed there, apparently by members of the Iraqi resistance, in late 2004.
:
She was kidnapped in Baghdad on 19 October 2004, and apparently killed some four weeks later. At the time of her kidnapping she was head of Iraqi operations for CARE.
:
On 16 November, CNN reported that 'CARE' had issued a statement [2] (www.careusa.org...) indicating that the organization was aware of a videotape allegedly showing Hassan's murder. The British Foreign Office has yet to confirm the tape as genuine. Al-Jazeera reported that it had received a tape allegedly showing Ms. Hassan's murder but was unable to confirm its authenticity. The video shows a woman, referred to as Hassan, being shot with a handgun by a masked man.

en.wikipedia.org...

So now that you know the details, maybe you can answer the questions posed to you. What does the Quran say about murdering a woman? What trial did she receive? What was Margaret Hassan's crime? How do you justify the actions of these cowardly murderers? Any man that can murder a woman in this manner, and needs to wear a ski mask while doing so, is a COWARD, Mokuhadzushi, and anyone that defends their actions is a lover of COWARDS.