Supermassive Black Hole Theory: Wormhole

www.iflscience.com...

From what I can tell, the full theory is not available yet, but could we dare imagine if such a theory were proved as law? Ooooh boy, what a can of worms that would be! Governments racing to the center of our galaxy to check it out!...CRAZY!

I found the talk of plasma observations near the center of the galaxy quite interesting. Hopefully new tech will allow us to ascertain if the proposed Black Hole in the bullseye of our galaxy is indeed a Black Hole. I will post more when I have time and/or can find it!

a reply to: Boscov

Interesting theory, but it has a lot of "ifs" and "maybes".
If proven to be true, could this make space travel easier?

We'll just have to wait for the VLTI instrument GRAVITY to be added to the European Southern Observatory in Chile.

a reply to: Rainbowresidue

Yes, it is a grasp of a hypothesis, attempting to turn theory, but hopefully, the VLTI instrument GRAVITY will be able to gather enough usable data to either disprove or identify the physics interactions surrounding our galactic center.

The theory is extraordinary. If wormholes are the root of some galactic centers, and capable of being traversed, then postulations of space travel will explode! I too am eagerly anticipating what new physics may come from the European Southern Observatory in Chile.

And, imagine where we could go! Or, who could pop into this galaxy! Albeit, WE most likely will not live to witness the dawn of interstellar or trans-galactic travel, I sure hope our descendants, however far removed will!

This theory is just as good as the theory they already have about Black Holes anyways. I like this one a lot better too

originally posted by: Boscov
I found the talk of plasma observations near the center of the galaxy quite interesting. Hopefully new tech will allow us to ascertain if the proposed Black Hole in the bullseye of our galaxy is indeed a Black Hole. I will post more when I have time and/or can find it!

They have a test to see if it's a wormhole or a black hole.

Reading between the lines in the paper, the test will probably show it's a black hole. Why? Because the paper says conditions today are not conducive to forming wormholes, so, if it's a wormhole, it would have been formed in primordial time near the big bang. The problem with this idea is that some people have claimed that while wormholes are theoretically possible, they would likely be unstable.

This general idea of an apparent black hole actually being a wormhole entrance is the plot to the Disney science fiction movie made in 1979 called "The Black Hole".

www.imdb.com...


Everybody thinks the evil genius mad scientist is mad when he takes them into the black hole, which he thinks is a wormhole, though he doesn't use that term that I recall, but that's exactly what the movie portrays.

So my point is, the idea isn't exactly new if they made science fiction movies about it in 1979.

I'll be surprised if it turns out to really be a wormhole at the center of our galaxy, but the universe has surprised me before, so it won't be the first time. It's interesting that they came up with a wormhole test though, which allows them to distinguish it from a black hole.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

This general idea of an apparent black hole actually being a wormhole entrance is the plot to the Disney science fiction movie made in 1979 called "The Black Hole".

You just reminded me of one of the all time worst movies I've ever intentionally been exposed to.
Thanks a bunch.

That, and Final Countdown. But at least that one had jets.

Intriguing, this used to be a fringe theory that I've always been a bit partial to wondering about. If even a small fraction of them could be wormholes, then that begs the question of where do they go? Bridges between galaxies? Bridges between universes? I've always come back to that one for black holes, the potential for it to a materials drain in this universe and a spigot in another. Now that would be awesome, all the universes interconnected much like a sink's drain & water plant & vice versa. What goes in eventually comes out, somewhere.

Great, now I'll be up all night pondering again.

a reply to: Nyiah

If even a small fraction of them could be wormholes, then that begs the question of where do they go?

Do we have a volunteer?

a reply to: Phage
I never said it was a good movie. The one thing I liked about it was the opening music, which someone used for this video of sizes of objects in the universe. The more massive stars will probably become black holes when they die. They probably won't become wormholes though.

Star Size Comparison, to "The Black Hole" theme song

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Nyiah

If even a small fraction of them could be wormholes, then that begs the question of where do they go?

Do we have a volunteer?

If doc said I had a week left to live, I'd go inside whether it was a black hole or a wormhole. Finding out if there's really a singularity inside, or if it's a wormhole, seeing where it goes, would be a better way to die than just dying in bed. I'd probably die quickly if it was a black hole but I'd still outlive countless generations on Earth, where my spaceship would tick one second for every 1000 years on Earth just outside the event horizon.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Nyiah

If even a small fraction of them could be wormholes, then that begs the question of where do they go?

Do we have a volunteer?

You know, of all the uncertain things in life to gamble with, this is one I'd do. One way or the other, I'll have figured out the answer to an extent. Whether or not that information makes it back to wherever anyone at a safe distance is is another thing entirely.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I never said it was a good movie.

I know.
It isn't.
And Disney should stay away from science fiction...even if the music is good.

The devil was in it. The devil!

if the galactic center is a wormhole; that's great. but even if it is- it would take 70,000 years or so travelling at light speed to get there to make use of it. the only real benefit other than increasing scientific knowledge is if that discovery prompts science to learn how to make some wormholes at the place and time of our choosing. theoretically that's the hard part because expanding an aperture requires negative mass or energy. expanding a quantum wormhole is probably necessary because we have no idea how to create a wormhole that is already large enough to mess with. But placing the other end of the wormhole at a desired location is actually easy once you have a wormhole large enough to go into without touching the "sides" of the entrance or the tunnel itself.

the very phenomenon theoretically postulated to forbid wormhole travel actually ensures that placing the distant end of it someplace useful is then as easy as pie. the "back reaction" principle is ready made to move the other end in a controlled manner. furthermore once you have a wormhole opened back pressure can be used to generate any quantity of any exotic energy or matter you want simply by chucking it's opposite form into the near end of the wormhole. a positive charge on one end generates a negative charge on the other end. you can even impart momentum this way.

generating momentum or velocity on the far end like this means you can move the other end around in space by doing stuff to the near end.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Arbitrageur

I never said it was a good movie.

I know.
It isn't.
And Disney should stay away from science fiction...even if the music is good.

The devil was in it. The devil!

I agree. ANd i bet you Disney tosses a refrence to that movie into Star wars. Luke: steer clear of the wormhole Han.

The center of the Milky Way is approx. 2700 lightyears away. I don't see why the supermassive black hole there would be any different then other black holes in the galaxy. There is a black hole closer.

V4641 Sgr is a micro quasar black hole located 1600 lightyears from Earth. Maybe, that black hole is a worm hole to the center of the galaxy. Maybe.

a reply to: ChefSlug

Why does this remind me of a video game..... SOmething something center of the galaxy something something Collector base...something something well bang ok?

(please if you get the refrences shout out)

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
if the galactic center is a wormhole; that's great. but even if it is- it would take 70,000 years or so travelling at light speed to get there to make use of it.

It's not 70,000 light years away.

originally posted by: ChefSlug
The center of the Milky Way is approx. 2700 lightyears away. I don't see why the supermassive black hole there would be any different then other black holes in the galaxy. There is a black hole closer.

Nope. 70,000 ly is too far, 2700 ly is too close. Try ~26,000:

Sagittarius A*

Distance 25,900 ± 1,400 ly

V4641 Sgr is a micro quasar black hole located 1600 lightyears from Earth. Maybe, that black hole is a worm hole to the center of the galaxy. Maybe.

Also incorrect but at least in this case such a distance was reported and later found to be in error:

A Black Hole in the Superluminal source SAX J1819.3-2525 (V4641 Sgr)

we find a distance 7.40 ≤ d ≤ 12.31 kpc (90% confidence).

That converts to 24135 ly ≤ d ≤ 40150 ly, which works out to a midpoint of 32,142 ly, so it's perhaps 80% likely to be further than the supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy, but the distance estimate has a fairly wide band of uncertainty.

sorry about that however the point remains. we aren't even capable of going 1 light year yet. a worm hole in the center of the galaxy is on no practical use to us for travel. we'd need a wormhole to get to that wormhole. however if we do detect a wormhole signature it does mean that we confirm macroscopic wormholes exist and can look seriously at the theories we have that allow for that to analyse if they should allow travel or not. and then we can work on producing artificial or artificially enlarged natural wormholes at a more convenient location.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Arbitrageur

I never said it was a good movie.

I know.
It isn't.
And Disney should stay away from science fiction...even if the music is good.

The devil was in it. The devil!

Who was the devil in that movie? It wasn't that scary looking red robot...was it?

Scientists speculate that you would need the power of a super nova, inorder to create a wormhole. They also say...that once a wormhole senses the vibrations of a starship, it would collapse unto itself. Imo...I don't believe that wormhole travel is feasible ---- with the black hole being the gateway too wormhole travel.

originally posted by: Erno86

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Arbitrageur

I never said it was a good movie.

I know.
It isn't.
And Disney should stay away from science fiction...even if the music is good.

The devil was in it. The devil!

Who was the devil in that movie? It wasn't that scary looking red robot...was it?

Scientists speculate that you would need the power of a super nova, inorder to create a wormhole. They also say...that once a wormhole senses the vibrations of a starship, it would collapse unto itself. Imo...I don't believe that wormhole travel is feasible ---- with the black hole being the gateway too wormhole travel.

it's more like if your starship touches the throat or walls of the wormhole it will collapse though there is some argument about that under cosmic back reaction arguments. also if there is a second wormhole through the same region both will go poof because such an arrangement would allow time travel into the past. the primary obstacles to creating a wormhole at macroscopic size are negative energy requirements to hold it open or enlarge it enough to go through, cosmic back reaction, and causality preservation. there is an interesting discussion on these considerations at last year's NIAC conference of which there are videos on you tube. you can find the links in the woodward/mach effect thread at the NASA Advanced concepts forum.