Atheists being persecuted in the USA.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Because the paranoia is justified looking at all the religious governments from the past.

All around the world, all throughout history, we can see the marks that theocracies have left on the people.

originally posted by: poncho1982
I do NOT believe the world was created in 7 days
I do NOT believe in Adam and Eve and all that jazz
I DO believe in the basic principles (love thy neighbor, etc)
I DO believe in evolution
I DO believe in a higher power
I DO believe in an afterlife

Upon reading this, I am reminded that the division between people is largely due to believers and atheists making assumptions about each other's beliefs. Just because someone is a Christian (a follower of Christ), that doesn't mean they necessarily believe in the bible as 100% factual, complete with a "big man in the sky". And just because someone is an atheist, that doesn't mean they "believe in nothing" or have no beliefs or morals. Too many assumptions get tossed back and forth, based on the labels, and we don't come to any common ground or understanding. I'm as guilty as anyone else.

I do NOT however respect you not respecting others different views on it though. It's one sided and judgmental.

Here's the thing. I cannot respect what you believe. I can respect YOU and your right to believe what you believe, but some of the things people believe are crazy (IMO) and I don't respect their views. Can you say you respect the view that there is no higher power or that the Earth is flat? The reason I'm asking is to be as clear as possible on what you mean about respecting your views.

I like to think of myself as someone who respects people's rights to have their beliefs and that should include not making fun of their beliefs. And, as I said, I'm guilty of that and I'm going to stop that now. But it's some of the ideas that the religious (particularly Christians) have that are wreaking a bit of havoc in our society.

Most everything that is wrong in the world today can be traced back to that very attitude. Intolerance and judgement

VERY true. And it's only when Christians show this intolerance and judgment (and laws are made based on that intolerance and judgment) that I get angry and start hurling needless insults, because it makes me so mad that people won't just let others live their lives without trying to push their beliefs regarding homosexuality, abortion and the marriage of church and state.

Just wanted to put that out there.

originally posted by: bigcountry08
like Jesus did to the men selling in the church? or was jesus not a real christian when he did that? a reply to: ninjamikec

It was a joke, as in christ was always forgiving, yet these christians today are evil.

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: ninjamikec

If it weren't for those bloody crusades that were in retaliation for the slaughtering of Christians, you and everyone else would be on your knees praying to Mecca every day.

The crusades were about taking back holy land, but i am pretty sure it was an offensive more than a defensive. Both sides were wrong, but I do believe you are wrong saying I would be praying to Mecca everyday. That is like saying if Hitler would have won the war I would be a nazi. You can't say that because you don't know, nobody does, thats why things happen the way they do. My whole intention was to be a joke because all christians are supposed to be good neighbors and help each other, but 99% of them dont practice what is preached.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: 3u40r15m
I don't get why atheist always rant about Christians, when they aren't the ones going door to door like Mormons. And touching kids like Catholic priest.

Mormons and Catholics are both Christians.

Technically... They are denominations of Christianity....Whaaatever

a reply to: ninjamikec

The idea that Christ was (is) always forgiving is a comforting one, but it is not supported by His words. He spoke several times about the punishments of Hell. And, as the whip in the Temple episode clearly shows, you better not be insulting His Dad when He's around.

Oh, the Crusades? There's a lot of evidence showing they were a response to the Muslim invasions and conquests. Historians disagree, and can be found on both sides of the issue, but most, if I recall correctly, agree that after a couple hundred years of invasions, the West was pretty peeved and thought they should do something about it.

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: 3u40r15m

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Mormons and Catholics are both Christians.

Technically... They are denominations of Christianity....Whaaatever

Yes, just as Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans and Episcopalians are. "Christians" is a huge umbrella.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: 3u40r15m

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Mormons and Catholics are both Christians.

Technically... They are denominations of Christianity....Whaaatever

Yes, just as Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans and Episcopalians are. "Christians" is a huge umbrella.

Just another fork in the road that's all one road.

www.ibtimes.com...
Atheists Persecuted In Many Muslim Countries: Report

The criminalization of atheism is contrary to Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the report argued, which protects “the universal human right to freedom of thought …[and] the freedom of conscience of every human being.”

The report called out Afghanistan, Iran, the Maldives, Mauritania, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Sudan as countries who dole out severe punishments for those who refuse to acknowledge the existence of a higher power.

“Atheists can face the death penalty on the grounds of their beliefs. In several countries legal measures effectively criminalize atheism, criminalize the expression and manifestation of atheist beliefs, or result in systematic discrimination against atheists and those who reject religion,” the report says. It also pointed out that “compulsory religious registration” occurs in Indonesia and Jordan, while in Iran residents must declare their faith to be one of the four officially recognized religions in order to claim certain legal rights or be able to enroll in university.

Countries like Egypt also monitor online social networks, and between 2011 and 2012 the number of prosecutions for “blasphemy” rose sharply, IHEU said.
www.ibtimes.com...
Bangladesh, Bahrain, Kuwait, Tunisia, and Turkey also made the IHEU’s list of countries that were vigorously going after online “blasphemers.”

For the life of me I cant figure why atheist rail against Christianity so much.

That is if you are really atheist, and not wolves in sheep's clothing.

a reply to: charles1952

The law suit said they were made ill by the sheer existence of the ground Zero Cross. (You know, if I were an Atheist, I wouldn't admit that a religious symbol had such great power over me through action at a distance.)

Me either, are they possessed and did their heads spin around?

a reply to: Stormdancer777

Did you just post an article on atheists being executed by theists, then criticize the atheist campaign against theism?

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: Stormdancer777

Did you just post an article on atheists being executed by theists, then criticize the atheist campaign against theism?

I am confused about that, myself. There was also a dig in there about atheists just pretending to be atheists... Either that's a very strange post or it was a form of sarcasm that I just don't get.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I think she is alluding to that atheists should attack Muslims more often than Christians. It appears to me that she is showing an article that talks about muslim persecution against atheists then she asks why atheists spend so much time attacking Christianity. Almost suggesting that they should spend more time attacking the muslim religion. Unless I'm wrong and that whole thing was just contradictory sarcasm.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Ah! I see. I think you're right. Thanks for the explanation.

I would have to say that I live in the US and am concerned about equality, as it applies to us, based on our founding documents. I'm not so much concerned what they do in countries whose government is a known theocracy.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Yes, I agree. I tend to focus more on Christianity because it is the religion I am most familiar with here. It is the majority religion here in the states. It is the religion with the most religious power in the states. So I focus on it. Sure there are lone cases of other religions trying to worm their way into state sanctioned activities, but their actions are quickly shot down.

It also comes down to quantity of debate partners. This forum being populated by a largely western population is majority Christian, atheist, or some other religion that Christians usually label as pagan. That means that there is plenty of opportunity to find a person to debate that religion with. When it comes to a religion such as islam, it is harder to find a debate person. Off the top of my head, I can think of just one muslim poster on these boards (and yes, I've debated islam with him).

a reply to: chelsdh

The sins of the self are the hardest to see. You can spot them so easily in everyone else, but it's very hard to look in the mirror and see them in yourself.

I'm doing a very poor paraphrase of C.S. Lewis there. He made his point far more eloquently.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: 3u40r15m

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Mormons and Catholics are both Christians.

Technically... They are denominations of Christianity....Whaaatever

Yes, just as Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans and Episcopalians are. "Christians" is a huge umbrella.

Just another fork in the road that's all one road.

Ah, riiiiiight.

Tell that to the Catholic Irish and Protestant Brits who spent so long blowing each other up ... just one big happy family.

It makes your life and worldview simpler to boil us all down into one simplistic pot, but reality is far more complicated.

I'd ask you to go over the Syria or Iraq and ask the Sunni and Shi'a why they don't understand that they're killing each other over just some forks in the same road? Or better yet, you ought to be able to get the Jews and the Muslims to sit down across from each other and broker that lasting peace by explaining that really Judaism and Islam are just forks in the same road ...

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Lol I know it is normally the Christians right?.
Just to point out Iam not an atheist I just found this vid and thought you would like to see it.

Now there is swearing so If your under 18 don't press play or If you are a prude same thing.

Many more examples.

www.ft.com...

It isn't just in the States.

www.reuters.com...

www.secularism.org.uk...

So have any of you atheists or non religious been persecuted from the religious?.
Why can't the religious understand they don't know the truth no one does and to claim you do is arrogant.
God begins where humanity's imagination ends.
I have in work many times thoughts?.

How is seeing signs "persecution?" Methinks he needs to look up the word and understand it's meaning.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Because the paranoia is justified looking at all the religious governments from the past.

All around the world, all throughout history, we can see the marks that theocracies have left on the people.

In all fairness, we have some pretty awful examples of atheistic governments like Communist China (especially under Mao), The Soviet Union, Cambodia, etc., so aweful and abusive governments are not limited to theistic ones. I have to agree with Krazyshot--that all government needs to be as small as possible.

originally posted by: NavyDoc
In all fairness, we have some pretty awful examples of atheistic governments like Communist China (especially under Mao), The Soviet Union, Cambodia, etc., so aweful and abusive governments are not limited to theistic ones.

No one here is promoting an atheistic government. I want a secular government with the freedom of expression for all.

I have to agree with Krazyshot--that all government needs to be as small as possible.

I definitely agree that we need a smaller government.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Because the paranoia is justified looking at all the religious governments from the past.

All around the world, all throughout history, we can see the marks that theocracies have left on the people.

In all fairness, we have some pretty awful examples of atheistic governments like Communist China (especially under Mao), The Soviet Union, Cambodia, etc., so aweful and abusive governments are not limited to theistic ones. I have to agree with Krazyshot--that all government needs to be as small as possible.

Fair point.