Snowden releases a exclusive interview

Thanks to Snowden I no-longer talk about blowing up the universe in open/closed forum chat rooms because my government is the evil one. For spying on me.

He's more than likely a double double agent .
But to look at this as nothing more than a Lois Lerner moment. Both were neck deep ,hands all over it and want to claim some form of innocence by stating its (They) not me. To say THEY the NSA or government, is breaking the law or un-American is nothing more than obfuscation. There are real people working for these acronyms . So If got this right they would be the traitors and he's the hero. ....To bad he didn't work at area 51 or where ever we keep the aliens.

(Disclaimer) Have no real plans to blow up universe..
but my corbomite device is real

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: crazyewok

If Snowden had limited his release and hoovering of information before he left to what was illegal, that would also make it a bit different.

He didn't though..and frankly, most of what has so far been released about overseas activity is called good intelligence work, not outlaw. Every nation in the world with ambition or independence attempts to do the same thing at different levels of success.

It's what the NSA has done inward and against Americans that is illegal where those in the NSA live. That is what they can actually BE prosecuted for and that is what can't get anywhere as long as he did it 'to give society a chance to change'. Well.... Society blew it's chance for apathy..again...and I could have told him that would happen.

now what?

Id look at the bigger picture.


ID be pissed, seething with anger that the agency that taxpayer spends 100'sof billions on was happy to spend it resources hacking a allied leaders phone but could not be bothered to stop China hacking its way into every aspect of USA + allies databases and stealing literally every military, political and civilian secret, In fact your computer security was so pathetic a autistic guy from England with limited hacking skills got into NASA most restricted database!
The NSA with all that's spent on it should be a fortress when it comes to internet security but all you got to show for it is a some hacked phone messages and invasion of privacy?

a reply to: crazyewok

You know the thing... The more people tell me that I'm the one with a problem to be calling a criminal a criminal or a traitor a traitor? The less I have any room at all left for anything but certainty in terms of his place in things here.

It's one thing to say he should be pardoned or fined $1. That at least acknowledges the man DID something wrong. HE even admits that, and ironically, has said in recent days the NSA isn't that bad a place and people are being TOO harsh about the agency and people. Interesting...from the folk hero people imagine and fantasize this guy to be. His own spoken words contradict some of what his biggest "supporters" want to imagine he is compared to what he is.

We've reached a point where it's not enough to say we should forgive wrongdoing in context to intent. We've actually now reached a low where we actually pretend wrongdoing never even happened, or that outright law can be casually redefined as we'd like it, because we'd like it that way.



Ummm.. The man is a criminal, a traitor and probably not destined to live a very long life. He could be pardoned......but he STARTS as a criminal because that IS what he DID.

He's still got the most powerful dirty tricksters in the world who want nothing more than to kill him. As painfully as humanly possible, I'd imagine. He has more problems than public image.....but then, he made his bed when he ran off in the night like a common thief to hide in Communist China, in route to the Russian Federation.

We may NEVER agree....but do know my opinions on this little criminal are based on a hell of a lot more than just what some media talking head said about it. The opinion hardens with each insistence that 'if only I understood..." Well.. I do.. and he's still a criminal on the run. His OWN actions and words have left me little more to say about him.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

He may be criminal and a traitor.

But I think you and other are getting hocked on the man rather than his message.

Yeah he broke some rules and he hiding in a not too freindly country.

And that eff all you or the US government can do about him unless Russia revokes he asylum.

You getting to focus on a situation you or anyone else CANT change.

But your ignoring the far bigger picture.

Yes Snowden may have betrayed you and hell "us" seeing as his spilled my government secrets too.

But OUR own governments have betrayed us too. They have sold us out. The agencys that should be protecting us are spying on us and at the expense of our national security! Because of there warped focus not only have our life's have been intruded upon but China has had a free meal ticket into the heats of our digital empires. they have had access to all our most sensitive data.

Sure snowden revealed some sensitive information, most we guessed anyway. And sure he has made the NSA and my own GSCHQ operations that much more difficult when it comes to domestic spying (BOO HOO))

But OUR own governments and these agency's have done far more damage! There incompetence and miss focus and neglect of REAL security means China have stolen BILLIONS in economic secrets, that lost jobs and money. Thats for starters. In the future if there are ever hostility's with China or more likely one of it friends that stolen data could be used to bring down our planes, sink our ships and kill our troops.


There nothing we can do about Snowden. Plus he one man and hes done all the damage he can do. And quite frankly traitor or not he likely done more good than harm. But even if you disagree so what? We cant touch him and the cats out the bag and it not going to kill us.

BUT we can ask question and demand action from our government! They have sold us out, they are far worse and damaging traitors. There ineptness has caused untold damage and continues to do so.

I say forget Snowden he just one man. Focus on the REAL threat the stupidity of the government.

a reply to: crazyewok

He may be criminal and a traitor.

But I think you and other are getting hocked on the man rather than his message.

This is reality, not a Robn Hood movie with kevin Costner coming out at the end to cheers and a day ending well. It's never going to have that happy ending and I DO look at the actions of individuals when it is individuals we are talking about.

If we want to talk about the state of the United States and Russia in the world and what each nation has done to rape, pillage and murder across this planet over the last several decades, which check mating each other each step? That is a great debate to have! Little Eddie Snowden isn't a factor in that great debate. He's a major agitator to making everything WORSE..but he's been no positive influence SO far, to anything but really making the day of America-Haters. THAT he has delivered like a gift on Christmas.

Some would forget and forgive anything about the man, for the message.

I say the message cannot forgive or allow us to forget the betrayal the man committed and the damage done.

It's literally a 180 degree difference in how we see a traitor, as I've almost come to see him now with nothing left for doubts.

Keep something else in mind... The country little Eddie is hiding in...treated the last person to do what HE is doing to a Polonium Shot with Alpha radiation to send him to the happy whistle blowers paradise beyond. Russia kills it's traitors, and has made that outright law of the Federation, wherever in the world they need to hunt them.

We all but make heroes of ours. (sigh) It's a sad and depressing contrast in a world gone mad.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Im not entirely sure what that damage is?

Yeah he causes great embarrassment to both our country's intelligence agency. and exposed how useless they are.

But the it seems both our country's intelligence agency's have damaged themselves with messed up priority.

Boo hoo Germany have wised up to NSA phone trappings. Is that critical blow to the USA? No Will it cost life's? Doubtful.

But the NSA and my own country's GCHQ while playing spy on our allies and people have neglected cyber security and allowed China right in. Is the a critical blow to the USA (And UK)? HELL YES! Will it cost life's? Very likely!

Forget snowden. I want to know right now why we have not been protected from hostile foreign nations hacking!

a reply to: crazyewok

Im not entirely sure what that damage is?

Yeah he causes great embarrassment to both our country's intelligence agency. and exposed how useless they are.

You've taken a very hard core Anti-American/Anti-English/Anti-West tack lately..and that's fine. It's everyone's right to develop whatever world view floats their boat. It's so overpowering though, it's coming to define ya, and I hate to see it. Those who caused that shouldn't get the satisfaction from what it does to people.

Still...I mention it, because if we're at a point where we honestly cannot stipulate that going out the back door of a nation security service (Any security service for that matter) with 2 million highly classified documents even DID damage? We're not even on the same page of music. Maybe not even in the same book.

Betrayal is something I can't condone or embrace. Betrayal is what he defined HIMSELF as being about ...and so, I'll take him at his own words for what he is. He makes it easy that way.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree tho..as I hadn't realize how little common ground to start with, we actually had on this particular topic.

* It's kind of ironic..look at my position here on ATS, outside this thread of course...and you're trying your best to convince me that total betrayal to all someone has sworn loyalty to and agreed to maintain the standards and security for, should mean nothing.. if betrayed for what is "thought" was a 'greater good'.

We wouldn't have much of a society left anywhere, if the way Snowden is being giving the free pass of justification were applied evenly across it. We would have a world full of people you couldn't trust to ask the time from, for as long as we had that much.

Snowden, regardless of motive or what we don't know, has done a great thing. He has single hand-idly helped stop our country from becoming a coy of the old Soviet Union or worse, North Korea. Who want's a country that spends Billion upon Billions of Dollars spying on it's own citizens with no oversight. We know that's a recipe for disaster. Thank you again Edward Snowden. We need more patriots like him to stop our government. I'm not sure why more "conservatives and republicans" aren't in support of these actions? I guess they are okay with certain branches of the government taking away our freedoms. As long as they are Alphabet agencies. However, they imagine that the Healthcare system is worse for some reason. I'm just not following the logic. Let's stop the NSA first.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

The US governments betrayal is far greater than his exposure of that betrayal.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000
Thing is Im not trying to excuse his actions.

If we was captured by the USA or given up by the Russian I would not be adverse to him standing a FAIR trial in the USA.
As for my thoughts on if he is guilty or not? Il rather wait to said trial.

But what laws he may or may not have broken is irrelevant as he is out of our reach for the time being.
One day he may come home to face trial. But no today.

But today what I do know is our intelligence agency's are betraying right now. Betraying due to to not doing what our tax money was meant for and that protecting us from REAL threats.

I've reflected on the argument that he is a traitor and have some questions for those who think he is.
I wander do people who think this way also support the catholic church for protecting and hiding its predator priests from prosecution ?

Are you suppose to expose the vile illegal activities of any organisation you belong to or work for? Or as an example are the bishops treasonous if they called the police on a priest that raped children?

Do you report corporate crime whether a government or church?
Or stay silent as you get punished for exposing the nasty truth?

Is supporting the NSA, like supporting a rapist priest? If you find it different I'm interested to hear how.

Is the government different to any other organisation if the activity is illegal and should that illegal activity be exposed by employees?

a reply to: zazzafrazz

So the evils of one, justify the evils of another?

The society that thinking creates isn't a society I want any part of being in when it runs through it's logical conclusions.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: zazzafrazz

So the evils of one, justify the evils of another?

In this instance yes, if you think what he did was evil.

Was it?

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

t's everyone's right to develop whatever world view floats their boat. It's so overpowering though, it's coming to define ya, and I hate to see it. Those who caused that shouldn't get the satisfaction from what it does to people.

This same exact thing can be said for our government and the lies they tell us all on a daily basis, we ALL know they have been but Snowden confirmed it, that's it. People hear so much of it (govt lies) that they tend to believe it, and THAT is why this country keeps going deeper and deeper into the crapper. I'm not going to accuse you of actually believing the U.S. government here, but it sure sounds like you do when it comes to Snowden. So I can tell you that is something I hate to see. Snowden exposed the lies, when you, along with millions of other Americans are still buying the governments lies even with evidence to prove contrary. THAT is a society I would rather not be part of. THAT is what has damaged this once great country.

Yes Snowden admits he broke the law, damn right he did, because it's people like him and ONLY people like him who have no other choice BUT to break the laws in order to expose those corrupted at the very very top, not the average NSA worker, but those who have time and time again abused their power and infringed on OUR rights over the last decade. Personally, I think anyone and everyone who sees what corruption is going on around them and does nothing about it cannot use the excuse "I was just doing my job".

Now you want to throw the book at him for showing us that our "masters" have been lying to us evidenced in writing? Who cares about an actual trial by the people right? Just screw him? Well, I'll tell you what sir, I hope the days are numbered for this type of mentality because a lot of us are sick and tired of the BS, and it didn't take Snowden to show us that BS, he just showed us on paper. Too bad if you want to hold some kind of cynical grudge about it.

Get back to exercising in common sense again Wrabbit, you're starting to scare me.

Btw, here is the full interview. Kinda surprised no-one has posted it yet -

First of all, I’m no fan of Snowden’s. I think he’s a narcissist with a 007 complex. Oh yeah, and a traitor, too. I believe that if he was so concerned about our privacy rights he would have gone about things quite differently. He worked for a spy agency. He even puffed up his chest and proudly proclaimed that he, himself, was a trained spy working undercover (Whoa, big time! Personally, I don’t buy it...), and not just some low/mid-level sys admin that the government claims. Let’s see now, an undercover agent with an aversion to spying. Makes perfect sense. Obviously when he took the job he wasn’t aware of what modern day spy agencies do all the time, all over the world. They spy; on EVERYONE and EVERYTHING electronically. At some point he must have asked himself (reality strikes), “Did James Bond really start out this way?” And after mulling it over, his finely tuned, supremely logical mind told him, “Probably not...” Thanks to his spy training, though, it allowed him to easily and transparently switch roles and morph into Supersnitch. Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound...Look! Up in the sky, it's a bird, it's a plane, no... it's Supersnitch! He’s now on a single mission, dedicated to fighting the never ending battle for truth, justice, and the American way (as he sees it).

Yeah, I got a little carried away. Anyway, if he really wanted to make an impact and expose the biggest invaders of our privacy, he should have gone the corporate route and taken a job with Google, Apple, Microsoft, AT&T, Verizon, Mobile or any of the thousands of other companies that openly profile us and know every move we make. Now that would be interesting. Telling us that a spy agency is spying on us is not exactly what I would call a revelation. Frankly, it’s quite old news. And, believe it or not, other countries have spy agencies, as well, and they’re doing the same damn thing.

Since it’s apparently OK with most people these days that an individual who works with highly sensitive and classified information, and who has been sworn to secrecy, violates that oath and unlawfully broadcasts to the world whatever that individual finds personally objectionable, then I guess the next guy who comes along and puts the U.S. nuclear launch codes on YouTube will achieve true SUPER hero status. Man, now that would definately call for a ticker tape parade.

Sounds good to me...

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Evil is used figuratively. The US gov spent many many years doing it's thing, both very good and very bad. Snowden spent seven years as a willing and well thought of part of actually forming the networking structure that allowed for parts of it to happen today.

Some see his late change of heart to go from being a literal professional spy (his own description) to being a betrayer, as an honorable thing. I see it as proving him a traitor at best. A coward at worst. When he stops hiding in Russia, I may at least respect him a bit, depending on how that stage of this plays out.

We need to get real heroes in our society, not criminals whose best defense is relative wrong compared to.....(fill in fav target). He's a criminal with far better justification (maybe) than most, but a cigar is still just a cigar in the end.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I think too many people are getting hung up on the fact that Snowden leaked information. Could he have possibly leaked information unrelated to the crimes he was revealing? With 2 million documents it's certainly possible but do we have any examples of published information so far where that's the case?

Breaking his oath was completely responsible and the right thing to do. Oaths and NDA's cannot and should not be used to cover up illegal activity.

I don't like that he's hiding in Russia but where else would he go? The US forced him into Russia. He tried to goto Ecuador which is not an enemy nation, and he planned a route that went through countries which weren't enemies but he would be safe. The US took that option away from him, leaving him with China and Russia.

a reply to: Aazadan

Well, that's the joy of a free nation. Some think we're getting too hung up on "the fact that Snowden leaked information", and some of us cannot and will not go beyond the crime which that represents, in it's own right.

He may get a pardon (who knows who the next President is and Ford's Pardon came as a surprise to many) or he may get a $1 fine or he may get life in prison. It's hard to say....but until he's stood for it? I can't and won't move beyond the criminal action his whole life has become defined by...

After his whole adult life being defined by living the lie of an intelligence Officer before that? Well, No. (He wasn't a contractor for the first 7 years of his career, after all. He was an Intelligence Professional.)

Very much like Hansen, Ames,and Boyce, Snowden isn't even original in what he did. He just set new records for the scale he did it on. Even Manning didn't run...and folks know how I feel about him for other reasons. I've tried to give the benefit of the doubt, but he's removed all doubt now by his own words and actions. Any doubt I ever had.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000

Well, that's the joy of a free nation. Some think we're getting too hung up on "the fact that Snowden leaked information", and some of us cannot and will not go beyond the crime which that represents, in it's own right.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
...but until he's stood for it? I can't and won't move beyond the criminal action his whole life has become defined by...

I don't want to sound rude it not my intent.

But if you fail to even acknowledge the things he has leaked then your dooming yourself not just to a incompetent government but maybe also tyranny.

Fine you think he a criminal. I respect that.

BUT he has leaked some pretty damned disturbing stuff. Not only is the government encroaching on our freedoms but NSA and GCHQ warped priority's have have least us weak as kitten against REAL and nasty threats like China.

If you went to Russia and killed him yourself, I wont lose any sleep.

BUT please please please don't write off and ignore what he said just cause you don't like him.

You say Im Anti American and Anti English. No im pro American and Pro English, but for our people , our freedoms and our REAL security. What I'm anti is anti self serving selfish incompetent scum that run both our country's.