China Deploys 3 type 094 Ballistic Missile Boats to Hainan Island.

Ummm... Well.... It's like this I guess... We knew they were coming, anyway. There they are.

China’s navy is expected to begin the first sea patrols next year of a new class of strategic missile submarines, highlighting a new and growing missile threat to the U.S. homeland, according to U.S. defense officials.
“We are anticipating that combat patrols of submarines carrying the new JL-2 submarine-launched ballistic missile will begin next year,” said one official familiar with recent intelligence assessments of the Chinese strategic submarine force.

Source: Red tide: China deploys new class of strategic missile submarines next year (July 2013)

I believe we can say they are definitely here now, right about on time too, I suppose.

Title: Three Chinese Nuclear Missile Submarines Photographed in South China Sea

China has deployed three nuclear-armed ballistic missile submarines to a naval base in the South China Sea, according to a recent photo of the vessels that appeared on the Internet.

Now I'm sure some folks will be about saying it's a case of 'nothing to see here...moving along now', but the Commander of United States Pacific Command, Admiral Samuel Locklear, had this to say.....

“China’s advance in submarine capabilities is significant,” Locklear said. “They possess a large and increasingly capable submarine force. China continues the production of ballistic missile submarines. … This will give China its first credible sea-based nuclear deterrent, probably before the end of 2014.”

Source

Global Security information:
Type 094 Jin-class Ballistic Missile Submarine

Military-Today's Specs:
Jin class

With Russia also returning to regular blue water ballistic missile submarine patrols, the ocean won't be near as lonely as it used to be. That's for sure.

I am not sure it's about expansion in anyway but might just be a way of owning the area . This lecture brings up many points about the Ukraine and what it did . Could it have been China pushing Russia towards a alliance with them ?? China is not going away anytime too soon and they are the major player . a reply to: Wrabbit2000

So the chinese got themselves a early 1970 era tech submarine. Good job china ... But it's 2014 and you guys still got a long way to go with your sub tech. Meanwhile all three of those subs have probably been stalked and thoroughly analyzed by us naval assets since they've left port. Probably under hauled all of them.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

The question always is, can you guarantee you can destroy those missiles before they hit their target? if not then they've got some nice tools at any bargaining session

China is probably more concerned about its problematic expansion ambitions rather than trying to rival the west and especially the US navy, it's so far behind I doubt it is of real concern only worded concern for more funding and R&D

Sure china is catching up militarily bit still a long way behind... but also slowing down economically, it's hard to think china now stands a chance of surpassing the US anytime soon in either military or economically, and not to mention doesn't have many friends

originally posted by: BASSPLYR


So the chinese got themselves a early 1970 era tech submarine. Good job china ... But it's 2014 and you guys still got a long way to go with your sub tech. Meanwhile all three of those subs have probably been stalked and thoroughly analyzed by us naval assets since they've left port. Probably under hauled all of them.

Arrogance and underestinating your enemy gets you one place fast
: DEAD.

Plus thanks too your incomptetent NSA with its screwd up prioritys china has comprised all most all the USA + allies electronic systems. All data about USA military hardware, its strenghs and weaknesses is in their hands.

To top it off most the parts on your equipment and verhicals were likley made in china, and resent news has shown its very easy for bugged and other comprised components to make its way into sensitive US positions.

Usa may have the more shiny toys but they are no good if China knows how to bring them down or worse ground them before even first use.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

let us not forget what the Chinese will be arming these submarines with!


Interesting development.....

a reply to: crazyewok

I think we're right to be concerned. They first put one out in 2004, so it's far from old tech. Based on the 093, but that doesn't make it the same boat. I'd imagine there is a bit more to their premier subs than is in the public record. What is worthy of attention, regardless of how super the boat itself is, is what it carries 12 of.

The JL-2 has a minimum range of 2,000 km, a maximum range greater than 7,200 km, and carries a payload of 1,050 to 2,800 kg. This payload can be equipped with either a single 1 MT yield nuclear warhead or between 3 and 8 MIRV warheads. The MIRV warheads probably weigh between 250 and 300 kg and can be set to a nuclear yield of 20, 90 or 150 kT. The missile will likely be capable of being equipped with penetration aids and decoys to decrease the effectiveness of missile defense systems. The JL-2 uses an inertial guidance system with stellar updates and a Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) system. It may employ the Bei Dou navigational satellite system. An accuracy of 300 m CEP has been suggested, but other reports suggest 150 m CEP, which seems to better reflect current guidance technology. 2

Source

Ahh yes.. Mr. MIRV. The more the merrier and it really spreads the good cheer around, indeed.

That's one thing about China these days. Whatever they were, it isn't what they are now and they're moving real fast in multiple areas at once.

** Cal, thanks for the vid! I was actually typing this as you posted.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Aah I cut ya off did I? I couldn't help myself, it immediately came to mind as soon as I finished reading. I discuss the Chinese military a lot with my buddies, being from the relatively undefended Canadian west coast. But the west coast of the US has more to be worried about methinks.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Yeah im worried.

Just take the F-35 thats meant to be the back bone of both our air forces and naval airforces.

According to lockheef and BAE china have manged to hack and steal most of the data reguarding it.

Seeing as its main defence and advantage is stealth Id say that fighter is comprimised, no stealth is invisable and if china does have the specs then they could work out exactly how to detect it and make the $200 million doller fighter a piece of scrap metal.

If airforce data is comprimised then theres a good chance bothour navys data is too and again will know all the weaknesses.

Good solid solid intel can beat shiny new toys.

Plus china seem quite happy to copy that stolen tec too, maybe not to our level of quality but with quantity instead. And quantity over quality did win 2 world wars already.



7

a reply to: crazyewok
Absolutely, especially if you take into account the literal collapse of north american manufacturing capabilities. competing with china would not even be possible these days. Not even if we tried to pump out shermans and chirch hills.
Made in china means more than just that!

yeah the Chinese may steal information
however the Quality in craftsmanship simply wont be there,
so failure when they need it most is a for sure thing.

I worked for a Chinese manufacturer of equipment sold here in the US
and they are junk. they take many shortcuts in the quality sector of their productions.
I am not worried.. they are doomed to fail.
needless to say, I quit the company cause I couldnt stand behind their product in good conscious.

a reply to: Maxatoria

You can intercept some of them, but not all, that's why the best way to stop the Chinese is to stop buying their products altogether, and very importantly, tell Walmart to recall their companies immediately, because once they have enough nuclear missiles to destroy the world, then they will be impossible to stop.

a reply to: crazyewok

"solid intel" dont u mean AMD,,,

never trusted intel after Clinton,,,

I think war between the west and China is very unlikely and assume their beefing up of naval power is a means to secure their territorial claims in the region. I really think China will play chess well in the coming years and the USA will not intervene but I could be wrong and they very well might have bigger plans for the future. If that's the case I'd hope the USA has as good of classified military tech as I assume they do coupled with their enormous military budget would probably give the Chinese a beating in open war but the aspect of MAD really negates that possibility imo.

I am not pro-USA at all but I do respect their ability to project firepower globally and have a lot of experience doing so.

originally posted by: Maxatoria
a reply to: BASSPLYR



The question always is, can you guarantee you can destroy those missiles before they hit their target? if not then they've got some nice tools at any bargaining session

The next question is if you launch can you destroy the missiles coming your way? China looks at themselves as the only place on Earth that matters. For them having China turned into a parking lot just to take someone else out would never be an option. That's my take on it.

My concern is that they are made properly and not cheaply. We certainly don't need some nuclear powered submarines that may carry nuke warheads on them having some malfunction and going down, destroying the oceans further

Under the adage "Generals always are prepared to fight the last war" so to are the Admirals.

There are ways to use these boats differently such as intimidating U.S. allies in the Pacific such as Japan, Taiwan, Philippine's or to counter U.S. basing such as Guam. The use as a political tool to achieve Chinese policy is not to be disregarded as they will be a factor especially in any overt reaction to crisis having to do with Chinese territorial disputes.

I don't see them used in a first strike on CONUS as the retaliation in return is too costly - however if the U.S. was to suffer something like an EMP attack or similar that compromised the economic ties that exist now then all restraints may be removed. Today the spigot of wealth flows in China's direction but remove that and what do we have?

The PLAN navy surely knows U.S. submarine capabilities in tracking their boats and counts that into tactics and strategic planning. There is a finite number of U.S. attack boats deployed at any given time and its not a given that U.S. can track each and every Chinese boat that sails. Witness Russian boat showing up in Gulf of Mexico seemingly undetected.

The danger comes not from the boats themselves but more so that any of them can have the short window required to launch their missiles after that they may see loss of the boat as acceptable to whatever outcome they foresee.

I'd be most interested in a discussion of just what circumstances these boats could be used other than normal deterrent or direct first strike on CONUS as the current numbers do not quite meet that job and I wonder if there is a more asymmetric use in mind.

a reply to: Philippines

I'd be willing to bet the Chinese actually know a few things about Nuclear physics and proper vessel construction. Umm.. The Chinese were making ships to make Europe's 'Ships of the Line' look like toys in a bathtub by size and crew strength, well before America was a place to give a name

I'll bet these are even very capable and very effective weapons platforms, just as the American military experts and men who will have to face them in combat (should it ever get there) have said they are.

I'll never understand the need to belittle our adversaries as if they are simple minded backward dolts just because they happen to be OUR adversary. China stopped being an agrarian economy built on farmers quite some time ago.

We'd be as quickly seeing seeing them talked UP and made to look very powerful if they were allies with us against some other common threat.

1945 was not that long ago. My grandparents were 10 years old when the U.S. dropped nuclear bombs on Japan. With no sympathy to the women, children, elderly and innocents that were killed.

We all have grown up in a society where we think these things cannot and will not happen to us. The US was only successful in not ending the world completely because they dropped the first ones. Now that every major country has nuclear weapons, the tension is building.

The human race is very peculiar. Self destruction seems to not phase us. There is nothing we can do but watch as the political leaders engage in this pre-apocalyptic pissing contest.