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originally posted by: borntowatch
originally posted by: GetHyped
originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: chr0naut
Please give the link to the so called "rebuttal". I guarantee it's not a science site and can pretty much guess which anti evolution site it's from. You do realize that the paper was peer reviewed, right?
Here: bio-complexity.org...
The journal in question is a creationist (sorry, "intelligent design") ahem "journal". Oh, it's been peer-reviewed alright... by creationists
Cargo cult science at its best.
Ahh so peer reviews can only be done by sources that support evolution
Now I can see why we dont deny ignorance.
I get it all evolutionist anti evolution papers must be peer reviewed by evolutionists.
I thought the idea was to challenge peoples opinions of science to find the truth
You just want people to agree with what you think the truth is or argue what you think the truth isnt, and
get your side to review everything.
Science needs to be tested and questioned.
Its a terrible state of affairs when it isnt and turns in to a faith, its supposed to be science, not religion.
originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
originally posted by: borntowatch
originally posted by: GetHyped
originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: chr0naut
Please give the link to the so called "rebuttal". I guarantee it's not a science site and can pretty much guess which anti evolution site it's from. You do realize that the paper was peer reviewed, right?
Here: bio-complexity.org...
The journal in question is a creationist (sorry, "intelligent design") ahem "journal". Oh, it's been peer-reviewed alright... by creationists
Cargo cult science at its best.
Ahh so peer reviews can only be done by sources that support evolution
Now I can see why we dont deny ignorance.
I get it all evolutionist anti evolution papers must be peer reviewed by evolutionists.
I thought the idea was to challenge peoples opinions of science to find the truth
You just want people to agree with what you think the truth is or argue what you think the truth isnt, and
get your side to review everything.
Science needs to be tested and questioned.
Its a terrible state of affairs when it isnt and turns in to a faith, its supposed to be science, not religion.
But science IS tested and questioned - by science! And we see the standard creationist strawman argument come out, that science is a 'faith'. No, it's not. You obviously have no idea what the peer-reviewed process of publishing is. If a paper on evolution is reviewed by a scientist then the science itself is the focus. If it's reviewed by a creationist then there's 2 problems. 1) how qualified is that creationist and 2) is he or she able to put their own prejudices aside and look at the science?
originally posted by: borntowatch
a reply to: AngryCymraeg
If a paper on evolution is reviewed by a scientist then, Christian or secularist, the science itself is the focus. If it's reviewed by an evolutionist then there's 2 problems. 1) how qualified is that evolutionist and 2) is he or she able to put their own prejudices aside and look at the science?
originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
originally posted by: borntowatch
a reply to: AngryCymraeg
If a paper on evolution is reviewed by a scientist then, Christian or secularist, the science itself is the focus. If it's reviewed by an evolutionist then there's 2 problems. 1) how qualified is that evolutionist and 2) is he or she able to put their own prejudices aside and look at the science?
I don't think that any scientist would ever call themselves an 'evolutionist'. A supporter of evolution perhaps, but not an 'evolutionist' - as there's no such word.
As a primary witness for the defense, Behe was asked to support the idea that intelligent design was legitimate science. Behe's critics have pointed to a number of key exchanges under cross examination, where he conceded that "there are no peer reviewed articles by anyone advocating for intelligent design supported by pertinent experiments or calculations which provide detailed rigorous accounts of how intelligent design of any biological system occurred".[26] In response to a question about astrology he explained: "Under my definition, a scientific theory is a proposed explanation which focuses or points to physical, observable data and logical inferences. There are many things throughout the history of science which we now think to be incorrect which nonetheless… would fit that definition. Yes, astrology is in fact one, and so is the ether theory of the propagation of light, and… many other theories as well".[27]
His simulation modelling of evolution with David Snoke described in a 2004 paper had been listed by the Discovery Institute amongst claimed "Peer-Reviewed & Peer-Edited Scientific Publications Supporting the Theory of Intelligent Design",[28] but under oath he accepted that it showed that the biochemical systems it described could evolve within 20,000 years, even if the parameters of the simulation were rigged to make that outcome as unlikely as possible.[29][30]
Which arguments should definitely not be used?
originally posted by: borntowatch
a reply to: AngryCymraeg
If a paper on evolution is reviewed by a scientist then, Christian or secularist, the science itself is the focus. If it's reviewed by an evolutionist then there's 2 problems. 1) how qualified is that evolutionist and 2) is he or she able to put their own prejudices aside and look at the science?
originally posted by: SuperFrog
a reply to: chr0naut
Are you talking about plagiarist Winston Ewert?
All his misleading research ends right here: boundedtheoretics.blogspot.com...
IMHO he can't be serious scientist and as Dr. Tyson said - people like him who are unable to lock their belief before science lab should not be allowed into lab.
Here is interesting video from Dr. Tyson regarding religion in USA
originally posted by: solomons path
a reply to: solomons path
I want to emphasize something that most might miss in the quote above . . .
From Michael Behe (inventor or the "irreducible complexity" argument) and poster child for the Creationist movement (read: an actual scientist promoting I.D.)
Behe's critics have pointed to a number of key exchanges under cross examination, where he conceded that "there are no peer reviewed articles by anyone advocating for intelligent design supported by pertinent experiments or calculations which provide detailed rigorous accounts of how intelligent design of any biological system occurred".
but under oath he accepted that it showed that the biochemical systems it described could evolve within 20,000 years, even if the parameters of the simulation were rigged to make that outcome as unlikely as possible
originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: solomons path
There was no reference made to Dembski, Behe or most of the names you brought up in your post.
Many of those names have nothing to do with science at all. From that, I assume that this is in fact a list of outspoken people with whom you disagree.
I know of many requests for public debates on evolution which were given to Richard Dawkins and to which he refused to attend. Does that in any way have any bearing on the case for Evolutionary theory?
No, it is character assassination by implication that the reason he chose not to attend was purely from fear of being exposed (and probably not the case).
I have now observed many posters in this topic thread with a stated favor for Evolutionary theory, who, having exhausted their ability to debate in scientific terms, have resorted to personal attacks (this is a tactic that they also accuse others of doing).
It speaks volumes.
In the case of the paper in question, "Time and Information in Evolution", I have researched the credentials of the authors. They are:
Winston Ewert, PhD in Computer Science from Baylor University.
William A. Dembski, B.A. M.S. PhD. in Computer Science, University of Illinois. M.S. PhD. in Physics, University of Chicago. M.Div at Princeton Theological College Seminary with four peer reviewed published articles. (At the ime of writing of the article in question, he had not published any peer reviewed papers).
originally posted by: solomons path
originally posted by: chr0naut
originally posted by: solomons path
Sorry, my mistake, I somehow scanned over Dembski's name. I have edited my previous post to correct it.
It doesn't change the fact that most of the names you brought up have nothing to do with science anyway.
Again, you have called me a Creationist.
Let me clarify: I believe that God may have created everything. I also believe that the current theory of Biological Evolution should still be considered valid as a theory. I also consider alternates to those two theories as just as valid as theories. I have not limited my thinking enough to discard any theory and to declare any particular one as "right/true' and all others 'wrong/false'.
You also defamed many people in your posts. Many of those you spoke against are academics whose income is related to their reputation, as are most other public figures. This is a public forum.
Let's please return to the topic.
You also defamed many people in your posts. Many of those you spoke against are academics whose income is related to their reputation, as are most other public figures. This is a public forum.
Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, or traducement—is the communication of a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal action to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism.
Under common law, to constitute defamation, a claim must generally be false and have been made to someone other than the person defamed.[1] Some common law jurisdictions also distinguish between spoken defamation, called slander, and defamation in other media such as printed words or images, called libel.[