Pregnant Pakistani woman stoned to death by family

originally posted by: luciddream
Its the perspective of what is right and what is wrong.... according to their culture, not ours.

Response to your post .... lucid .. take it up with Skorpion. He, the Muslim on this thread, stated that it's the culture and not the religion. Our response ... it's the culture based on religion. But he's the one who said it's culture. So you'll have to take it up with him as to why he says it's the culture.

As to the statement above .... are you saying that 'right and wrong' is based on culture? I'm not sure if I'm following you. If that's what you are saying, I'm going to counter with ... murder is wrong no matter what. A culture that celebrates or approved of religiously motivated murder is not worthy of respect. IMHO

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: junglimogli
Every culture is different and should be respected and accepted..

Nope. I'm not going to respect and accept a culture based on outdated religious nonsense that says an innocent pregnant woman can be slaughtered by her family and neighbors with rocks simply for exercising her basic human right of loving and procreating. That is NOT worthy of respecting and no one should accept that kind of thing happening. Call it what it is ... barbaric. (I already gave the definition of 'barbaric' ... and this fits)

You're talking with your emotions .. without the benefit of intellect ..
So you think it's OK for the an American to sit in a comfy chair in Kansas and kill civilians .. children.. pregnant women..and their household members via a drone strike in ANOTHER country ..? and then go home to his/her family and kids to have lunch like nothing happened ..? These is happening every day ..do you see any respect for human life in this ? You think this is not barbaric ..? I'm surprised you are not crying over this every day ..

Those guys did it as a family honor to one of their own .. it's the way they do things OVER THERE .. NOT here in America or any other non-islamic country .. what they do in their country, in their own ways is their business ..

a reply to: boymonkey74

Oh .. you can add to the list of questions that apply to this topic ... ATS Thread - Should Human Beings All Have Equal Rights?

Don't people have a basic human right to believe as they wish; to love whom they wish; to have children when they wish; TO LIVE AND NOT GET MURDERED ?? Yes or no. Simple question. (and he's never answered it)

originally posted by: junglimogli
You're talking with your emotions .. without the benefit of intellect ..

My intellect is just fine and dandy, thank you very much. Murder is murder. It's not acceptable no matter who does it. It's not worthy of respect no matter who does it.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: junglimogli
You're talking with your emotions .. without the benefit of intellect ..

My intellect is just fine and dandy, thank you very much. Murder is murder. It's not acceptable no matter who does it. It's not worthy of respect no matter who does it.

Then use your intellect to make the right judgement ..not a partial one ..

a reply to: FlyersFan

No i merely meant that we indeed give death judgement on people, whether it be "standing your ground" or "self defence" or any other 100s of death that happens.

They give their death judgement on people for different reason.


In the end both cultures take lives..

Her father was promptly arrested on murder charges, police investigator Rana Mujahid said, adding that police were working to apprehend all those who participated in this "heinous crime."

And it is not their culture to stone any more, since its a crime, but that does not stop their conservative population to follow their old archaic rules.

originally posted by: junglimogli
Then use your intellect to make the right judgement ..not a partial one ..

What the hell are you talking about 'partial judgement'. Murder is murder. It's wrong. Period. There is nothing partial about that statement. The fact that you won't condemn this murder tells me that YOU aren't using your intellect. Like I said, my intellect is fine and dandy.

originally posted by: luciddream
They give their death judgement on people for different reason.

And it's an unreasonable 'reason'. Murder is murder. It's always wrong.

In the end both cultures take lives..

Speaking to your example .... that is self defense. Having to take a life in self defense is much different than a group of family and neighbors standing around and bashing a pregnant girls head in because she dared to want to marry someone they didn't approve of. Ya' know?

originally posted by: junglimogli

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: junglimogli
You're talking with your emotions .. without the benefit of intellect ..

My intellect is just fine and dandy, thank you very much. Murder is murder. It's not acceptable no matter who does it. It's not worthy of respect no matter who does it.

Then use your intellect to make the right judgement ..not a partial one ..

What you are literally saying to FlyersFan is to somehow use his intelligence to condone the killing of a pregnant girl for loving someone. Do you realize how that sounds? Intelligence and respecting the murder of an innocent woman are polar opposites. There is no intelligence involved in any point of view that agrees with what happened to her.

originally posted by: lambs to lions
What kind of person can murder one of their own family members? Seriously, the psychological state of these people really disturbs me. It's not like it is just a few crazy people here and there. The article makes it clear that it happens quite often. Once is too often if you ask me.

I'm a Christian, and I realize that's not very popular on this site. I respect everyone's opinions, and I know I shouldn't judge. However, I think this 'radical' Islam is evil.

Doesn't the Old Testament of the bible give a somewhat elaborate list of reasons for which people should be killed / stoned to death?

I'm not trying to be a smart aleck or anything... I just think most people don't consider this, if they even realize it. And I personally find it very interesting how both Judaism and Christianity seem to have moved away from their more harsh and seemingly barbaric roots, while Islam has not.

In the case of Christianity, I "get it." The teachings of Christ supersede those of the old testament, so it's "love thy neighbor," "forgiveness," and "turn the other cheek," rather than "they shall be put to death if..."


I am quite curious though why observant / orthodox jews don't follow such "old school" rules, themselves.


All that being said, it does drive me quite batty when some christians talk about how terrible and sinful homosexuality is (and of course they have to point back to the very same parts of the bible mentioned above to do so) and yet they usually follow none of the other Old Testament rules. e.g., Not eating pork and shellfish etc, only marrying a virgin, a woman's "unclean" period, stoning to death, etc., etc. It really seems both misguided and hypocritical. But I digress....

a reply to: FlyersFan

..that is self defense...

Who set the premise of where we can take lives soon as an intruder approaches our house for robbery? Didn't our culture make that up? Im not saying the incident in the OP and standing you ground is the same, but the idea of taking lives were culturally instilled.

"You enter my home without my notice, i get to kill you"... have you ever wondered in some countries there is no such laws.. they might look at what we do as something barbaric?

"they killed a human so they can protect some jewellery and some money?"


Our response would be, well he should not entered the house if he didn't want the punishment.... and now we go to a countries where some people views pre martial relationship or any non cultural affair as bad as stopping an intruder.

Our sense of laws are derived from our cultural exposure. we have the right to take lives if its an intruder, they have the rights to take lives if they have pre martial affairs.

you might say, "its just love".. love is innocent according to our culture.. for them it might be like betrayal of family.

a reply to: iwilliam

Christianity is based on the teachings of Christ which is found in the New Testament. Most Christians will probably tell you that the Old Testament had it's place in a different time when the world was a brutal place and people were ignorant. I don't try and reconcile the two. There are others on ATS who could do a good job explaining the OT.
I believe the Judaism has been influenced by Christianity.

According to Sharia law all those who killed that woman should get executed !

The police were 20 ft away and did nothing.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Don't watch please If you can not handle the aftermath of the stoning of a pregnant woman.





It goes on a lot...
I hope they round them up and put them in Jail for a long time.

It amazes me that people on ATS have more or less defended this when the actual country and the government of Pakistan has condemned this and even talked of giving the people who did this the death penalty...
Eye for an eye....my arse.
Lock em up and let them think about what they did.
Gonna leave cos Iam disappointed.

Hey, they drag there crap head warped mentality over here too:
Without Honour: The True Story of the Shafia Family and the Kingston Canal Murders

Sometime in the middle of a June 2009 night, Mohammad Shafia — with help from his eldest son and one of his two wives — put his three daughters and his first wife inside a Nissan Sentra and pushed it into the Rideau Canal. It was a murder committed in the name of honour: Shafia believed his daughters were too interested in boys, too immodest — too Western — to live. And he believed his first wife, Rona Amir, a bad influence on the girls.

This should never have happened in Canada, this is male chauvanism at it's worst. Where is the honour in killing your kids.
What an idiot!

Anyway, justice was served, and I hope this makes those who think they can excercise their stupid idiotology (ideology) over here in the Western world think twice.
He (the father) is old enough to die in prison, worse than just dying, maybe he will have time to think about what he did, or how ill served he was as he was only fulfilling religiocultural obligations.

On January 29, 2012, the jury completed its deliberation after 15 hours and reached a verdict of guilty, four counts of first degree murder for each of the three defendants. First degree murder carries an automatic sentence of life in prison without a possibility of parole for 25 years.

Ahhh, but they only think once, because they are doing their duty following the way of the idiot for centuries.

These people, when they come here should be made to repeat an oath that they understand that women are equal here and we have laws and mechanisms in place to help ensure that.
Leave your stupid customs and religions at your place of origin.
We don't want to be exposed to this BS.


PS, where is the honour in killing your family members, is that not worse than the original dishonour?

This brings the thoughts about the rest of the world into my head. As type this out on a laptop, in the comfort of my home, sipping from a tall glass of clean ice water, there are millions of people in pain all over the world. There is a severe problem in human nature where we do not show compassion to people when their culture is slightly different from our own.

There are children in prisons in North Korea

There are women being sold into sex slavery all over the world

there are men starving and killing for leaders who do not care for them

What are we to do?

a reply to: lambs to lions

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

But it does not give the other cultures the right to murder people because of such things either

thats opinion. Just who decides who gets what rights? If malaysia decides to execute people for marijuana possession, can you judge them by the standards of a country where marijuana is completely legal. This thread is another example of people telling others how to deal with domestic issues.

It is an opinion based in fact.

Fact; A Pakistani Muslim woman was stoned to death for marrying a man she loved because her father wanted an arranged marriage.

Fact; a pregnant Christian woman is currently shackled to a wall in a Sudanese prison for supposedly leaving the muslim faith, which she claims she was never part of.

There are certain basic human rights that should be the same around the world. Freedom to love whom you want and freedom of religious belief are a couple related to this very thread and because they harm nobody. Things like legalising marijuana are issues for local societies to decide because there is good evidence that it can be detrimental to people.

As a global society it is our duty to stand up and fight for those without a voice so that they can have the same chance to live in peace and without fear in their home nations.

a reply to: oneupShadow
And 2/3rds of the world doesn't have enough to eat, and that is why I eat all the food on my plate most of the time, because I know there are people that would give there left *** to eat our waste.

And I complain about having to go to work, not enough ketchup for my fries, it's cold for late spring, my fingers hit 2 keys at once, one too msany times; the hot water takes too long to flow from the water heater.

And when things get really bad, like my toast gets stuck and burns in the toaster, I stop to think, I am not an innocent person in prison with a life sentence, I can toss the toast to the birds and pop in 2 more whereas some people dream of owning a loaf of bread (and butter to boot! ), I am not being tortured, etc. etc.

What was the topic?
Oh yeah, the cesspool of ignorance here is not as bad as the ignorance there. There must be men in those 'honour killing counties' aka extreme muslimism that hang their head in shame because of the backwards ignorant ideology that goes on.
They can't all agree that this is right.

Oh, and what happens to the husband? Oh yeah, he's not a woman, he is spared.

IDOITS!

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
@

But it does not give the other cultures the right to murder people because of such things either

thats opinion. Just who decides who gets what rights? If malaysia decides to execute people for marijuana possession, can you judge them by the standards of a country where marijuana is completely legal. This thread is another example of people telling others how to deal with domestic issues.

What you're doing is supporting this heinous crime against humanity and you should be utterly ashamed of yourself.

a reply to: lambs to lions

It's sad, truly is. But don't think for one second that just because they immigrate it changes anything. They bring their insane ideals with them to the West. In a very liberal country (one of which I live in here in Europe) has a small issue with things like this. Just a stone throw away from me is an apartment complex which has seen several honor killings over the past decade and a half. One young lady was thrown from a five story balcony breaking her neck killing her for dating a westerner.

For those of us who aren't brainwashed with the inane politically correctness thrown about, we can see that Islam is a danger. You'll get those PC idiots with their heads buried so deep in the sand that they'll deny any of this happens and that "Islam is just misunderstood" or "targeted". Naturally, this is BS and Islam is destroying Western Europe from the inside out.

But what do I know, I've only experienced and seen much of what Islam brings to Europe for the fifteen+ years I've lived all across this continent.