Pregnant Pakistani woman stoned to death by family

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: luciddream
Its the perspective of what is right and what is wrong.... according to their culture, not ours.

Response to your post .... lucid .. take it up with Skorpion. He, the Muslim on this thread, stated that it's the culture and not the religion. Our response ... it's the culture based on religion. But he's the one who said it's culture. So you'll have to take it up with him as to why he says it's the culture.

As to the statement above .... are you saying that 'right and wrong' is based on culture? I'm not sure if I'm following you. If that's what you are saying, I'm going to counter with ... murder is wrong no matter what. A culture that celebrates or approved of religiously motivated murder is not worthy of respect. IMHO

respect is earned.

originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: 727Sky

So what do you think, is it Islam? Is it as some have suggested their culture, or way of life? It seems to me that it is rooted in their religion.

doesn't seem to be a very good survival strategy, does it.

for a culture or religion.

originally posted by: lambs to lions
I respect everyone's opinions, and I know I shouldn't judge. However, I think this 'radical' Islam is evil.

Yes, it is your moral duty to judge. People turning a blind eye allows this behaviour to continue.

There are two worlds. The civilised and the uncivilised. This type of behaviour exits in the uncivilised bit.

BTW stoning people to death is not "radical" Islam as it is part of capital punishment regimes in some Islamic nations, although Iran stopped its use in c. 2005, if I recall. However, most reported cases seem to be by lynch mobs and tribal morons. Note it's mostly women who get stoned. Just love the way women are treated across the Islamic world, so "yesterday".

Anyway, must not judge. What do I know in my comfy house with all the mod cons of a civilised society?

Regards

This is yet more proof that Pakistan is a dying country. If respect for the rule of law - she was killed outside a courthouse FFS! - is this low then the country is in deep trouble.

I will venture to say that many Islamic / Muslim people are equally disgusted by the event. I would not attribute this behavior to the majority.

As the article says, "Her father was promptly arrested on murder charges.." which tells you the (Islamic) governments stand on this issue.

For whatever reason, the psychological truths that cure these problems are supressed information. It's an inconvenient truth to the powers that be.

Was this the woman who's known her fate for a while?
The one Bill Clinton spoke out for recently and the one there's been a big campaign trying to raise awareness for?
I really hoped they wouldn't kill her.
I can't imagine any God wishing or instructing its followers to kill people.

This is so sad and so sick.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

For once in your existence at ATS .... directly answer a question put to you.
Do you support or condemn this stoning to death of the innocent pregnant girl?
Support or condemn. Pick one. There is no in between.
If you don't condemn it ... then you support it.

ANSWER A QUESTION FOR A CHANGE.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Nobody asked for a global society and by ''our duty'' do you mean the both of us or just Americans? Because Americans have no right to dictate other cultures how to live,.

Hey genius ... It's not an American thing. It's a BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS thing. PAKISTAN signed the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.
THEY agreed to this list of basic human rights.... all of which were denied to the innocent pregnant girl who had her head bashed in by Muslim fanatics.

United Nations Declaration of Human Rights

Article 16.

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

Article 18.

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Article 19.

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

List of countries that signed the Declaration

Pakistan signed it. They admit the woman had a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT to marry who ever she wished; to have a family as she wished; to leave her religion if she wished; and to express herself and her opinion as she wished.

ANSWER THE QUESTION ... Should all people have equal rights. Yes or no?
Answer a question for a change.

a reply to: FlyersFan

YOU are anti-christian. YOU said you can't wait for it to die.

Its going to die because Christians themselves have discarded Biblical morals and adopted secular "anything goes" morals, as evidenced by your own post.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n
And you said you can't wait for Christianity to die. Which means you are anti-christian. So for you to say you hate the west because it's anti-christian is silly. It's disingenuous spin.

a reply to: boymonkey74

1) do you agree with what happened in Pakistan?

2) Do you think the family was right to stoning her.

First recognize the fact that it was purely a family dispute that turned violent.
I don't have an opinion on family disputes, especially those in an ultra-conservative part of the world. It is for this reason that I have not expressed any view about the actual event itself. Besides, the news article in the OP, doesn't even mention Islam or an Islamic court ruling. Yet some have turned a family dispute into an Islam and Muslims issue....which is what I'm trying to counter.

3) Do you agree with stoning?.

First, I'm going to assume this question has nothing to do with the issue raised by the OP.

That said, I believe in the death penalty no matter what kind, IF the circumstances justify it. But this line of discussion is pointless because you already said you believe the death penalty is barbaric. (Another classic example of ATSers argues from emotion and personal opinion instead of reason and intellect.)

4) I want to know If you live in the west?

No.

5) If so why when it gives you freedom to do many things a theocratic country would not allow you to do so why bash it?.

I'm not bashing anything.
I simply pointed out that its hypocritical of some people to point fingers at violence in other cultures....when their own children and loved ones are at the mercy of violent gun culture. With all the mass shootings in schools, universities, theatres etc. Americans are simply in no position to point fingers at violent behaviour elsewhere. And when they make an attempt to do so, its laughable.

originally posted by: lambs to lions
Associated Press

Sorry, I'm on my iPhone so I'll keep this short...

What kind of person can murder one of their own family members? Seriously, the psychological state of these people really disturbs me. It's not like it is just a few crazy people here and there. The article makes it clear that it happens quite often. Once is too often if you ask me.

And once again we see no outcry from "moderate" muslins in Pakistan anyway. They are tolerant of their fundamentalist brothers and tolerance is what its all about. Not to mention the ak-47s and car bombs.

a reply to: FlyersFan

And you said you can't wait for Christianity to die. Which means you are anti-christian.

Being critical of Christianity, the religion... isn't being opposed to Jesus.

Its the Christians who openly adopt secular "values" while discarding Biblical ones who are the true anti-Christs.
Besides some even insult the prophets Jesus held in high esteem. And why does your avatar pic contain what clearly looks like an inverted cross on it?

a reply to: stargatetravels

Nope, as unbelievable as it sounds, there is another publicized event that you are speaking of. It involves the law handing down a sentence of death to a woman for marrying a Christian. She is also pregnant, but they are nice enough to let her have the baby before they put her down like the dog she is. Oh, and that is another case of "radical" Islam and this time it's being carried out by law, not some rogue group of law breakers. There are a few apologists that keep suggesting that these things are happening outside of the leadership or governing bodies. BS, clearly there are examples that prove otherwise.

a reply to: Logarock

Exactly. The silence is deafening. However, pointing out the facts will get you nowhere with the apologists. They go full ostrich mode on you.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
a reply to: FlyersFan

YOU are anti-christian. YOU said you can't wait for it to die.

Its going to die because Christians themselves have discarded Biblical morals and adopted secular "anything goes" morals, as evidenced by your own post.

It will not die because Christ taught love and tolerance. These are ideals that are universally accepted in the modern parts of the world. There is a$$hole Christians that think they are above everyone else, and that is their problem.
Regardless, Christianity will flourish because following it's teachings doesn't require human rights violations. Can the same be said for Islam? Nope. The truth is that the civilized and developed nations would never allow such ignorance and brutality to evade the law in their societies. So, while the United States, Europe, Japan, Australia, Russia, and others move forward with their ideals and developments, Muslim nations will continue to isolate themselves. Eventually, no one at all will travel to these regions. They will be virtually quarantined. Once the world moves away from Oil reliance, which is already happening, there will be no need to trade in the middle east. Keep living in the dark ages.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
And why does your avatar pic contain what clearly looks like an inverted cross on it?

Henrietta has a FULL CROSS. The fold of the dress in this particular picture makes it look otherwise. Your continued insinuations that it's an upside down cross is absurd. Anyone who has seen Southpark knows different. And why do you have a CHAOS symbol ... Chaos = anti-God.

How about you get on topic. Since you won't condemn stoning an innocent pregnant woman to death, then you support it. It's just that simple. Lovely.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Nobody asked for a global society and by ''our duty'' do you mean the both of us or just Americans? Because Americans have no right to dictate other cultures how to live,.

Hey genius ... It's not an American thing. It's a BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS thing.

In this case its a common sense thing. A family flips out and killed their girl. Could have happened anywhere. Nothing to do with ''human rights'' or Islam. So go easy on the copy pastes. It isn't going to magically add substance to your posts.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
And why does your avatar pic contain what clearly looks like an inverted cross on it?

Henrietta has a FULL CROSS. The fold of the dress in this particular picture makes it look otherwise. Your continued insinuations that it's an upside down cross is absurd. Anyone who has seen Southpark knows different. And why do you have a CHAOS symbol ... Chaos = anti-God.

How about you get on topic. Since you won't condemn stoning an innocent pregnant woman to death, then you support it. It's just that simple. Lovely.

since you dont condemn gunlaws that allowed psychos to kill innocent people,you support their deaths. Terefore you have no business pointing fingers at, of all things, a domestic issue elsewhere.