Is there such a thing as self defense?

Let us treat this as a thought experiment.

~Hello ATS, long time no see. I've just spent the past four months in lockup and was just recently bailed out. Let me tell you, most of the people who spend that long in jail can't bail themselves out because their charges are so serious and their bail is set at hundreds of thousands of dollars. My bail was set at several hundred dollars; my family basically wants to quietly sweep the case underneath the rug by having me sent to prison or a mental institution. //Don't get any ideas spooks.

So here is what happened:

I was the passenger in a moving vehicle and my stepfather was driving. He had agreed to drop me off at a location, but as we approached it he changed his mind; he was quite angry about being late for an appointment and the utility company. I had taken off my seat belt in anticipation of him dropping me off, and was requesting that he pull over and stop. Obviously, he flat out refused to do so.

This is where things started to go very very badly.

All he had to do was take 10s to pull over to the side of the road, and I assumed he would do so; he was transporting me against my will, after all. Unfortunately this was not a reasonable person to be dealing with. As, when I had opened my door and demanded, repeatedly, for him to pull over and stop, he still refused to pull over.

Then he ordered me out of the vehicle and I responded with colorful language. The next thing I knew, I had been forced out the the vehicle. My last thoughts before being rolled like a rag doll and knocked unconscious were "Oh #." But BEFORE I had that epiphany, I had thought "There is no way in hell that I'm getting out-"

I saw a bust of images, nothing made sense. There was shape and movement without comprehension; the area of my brain that controlled movement and visual processing got overloaded by the concussive force. Then, suddenly, everything swam into focus, a single moment of clarity before I blacked out: I was on my side, and could see blood and brains coming out from under my head, taking up the bottom of my field of vision. Then, nothing.

Just as suddenly, I was presented with another flash of movement which made no sense; when it ceased I was on my ass, but very much alive.

I was very fortunate to regain consciousness, even though I was bleeding, concussed, in great pain, and suffering from some kind of stroke or seizure. I guess those things happen if you don't die after an ordeal like that. It was terrifying, not having fine motor control, my arms and legs spasming and moving about uncontrollably. I had never had anything like that happen before. Then I realized that I was in the road and needed to leave before I got run over; it was pure luck that hadn't already occurred.

So I staggered out of the road, forcing one foot in front of the other, when, lo and behold, the bastard who forced me out of the damn thing runs up and tries to grab me. As I'm still in the road.

He got hit in the jaw so hard that his knees gave out and he was knocked flat. Thank god, because he outweighs me 2-1 and is former military. Then he tried to get up, and I subdued and restrained him. As gently as humanly possible. No knees, no elbows, nothing below the belt, no dirty moves. But some teachers saw this part of events, and wouldn't you know my luck, they were all a bunch of know-nothing pansyassed, flower child, ivory tower folks. Who don't believe in self defense. And this is an overwhelming democratic state (jury duty with zero violence tolerance jurors? These people are brainwashed.) Like a naive idiot, I demanded that they call the police, who in all honesty would have been called anyway.

I handed him over to the authorities, kept my peace, and was taken into custody after being forced into an ambulance. I don't have insurance. No charges were brought against him, and the prosecutor pressed charges on me.

Let me repeat that: No Charges Were Pressed Against Him.

The State pressed charges against me. That is right, the State. i'm up against the State that I live in, and they are prosecuting me with one hand, and defending me with the other.

I spent a week in solitary confinement with no showers. No change of clothes. No potable water. No toothbrush. Then things got better when I was moved to jail. Of course, the guards beat me up to put me in my place… when I called up my relatives and told them what happened, they called the guards and said I was making stuff up. So the guards had some words with me, threatened me and made me sign a statement. And then quietly allowed the inmate workers to beat the crap out of me as they, the people who were supposed to be guarding me, watched. I stayed in my cell for the next month. Legal calls were regularly cancelled, personal calls were regularly cancelled. The phone lines were monitored, and calls would be deliberately dropped by the guards to prevent contact. Letters which I tried to send out were returned, or bounced back.

The guards were on meth. They had made deals with the inmates in return for "perks". It was in the news for a nearby jail, soon it will be in the news for this location as well. They are even selling prescription drugs which are meant for the inmates to suppliers on the streets. This is glaringly obvious; many of the inmates talk about such matters… if they didn't agree to the arrangement, the guards would take the pills anyway.

This facility needs to be audited. ASAP. Who the hell will listen to any reports which I write? I saw an inspector at one point, he took pictures. Of things that weren't in disrepair, yet failed to document the obvious damages which were present. This is a sign of financial fraud. As funds are given for upkeep, the facility is allowed to fall into disrepair as they pocket the monies.

and the inmates, never have I met so many evolutionary dead ends. Not even on ATS. They have multiple children from multiple "baby mamas", women who only have kids for a paycheck. They live on government handouts to support their drug habits. They refuse to work.

Look, If you need help, that is nothing to be ashamed of. If you need help and you budget some of your money for recreation, that is only human. If anything, it is HEALTHY. But that is not the same as relying on government handouts for the express purpose of not having to work and constantly doping out as a lifestyle. I had never understood why "republicans" had such toxic emotions towards the unfortunate. Now, I understand how they may mistakenly apply those negative emotions too liberally in error. But more on that later.

So what do you think ATS, do I deserve to be a felon? To never be able to serve in the military (domestic charges mean no guns=no military,)? If you were on the jury would you find my actions justifiable, or would you send me to prison to be raped for the next decade? Perhaps you've already made up your mind that I jumped out of a moving vehicle. But does the responsibility of being a driver obligate him to pull over when the passengers life is in danger?

At any rate, I'm extremely fortunate and relieved to be alive. I am grateful for my health, for still being of sound mind and body. Money is only money, and though the medical expenses will bankrupt me, even though my life has been completely disrupted, even though there is virtually no chance of me ever getting a settlement, at least I'm not dead.~

Something to think about.

a reply to: teachtaire

It sounds like the jail your were in was one heck of a place, but then again, I have a little bit of a problem with your story.

I don't think you deserve to be a labeled a felon and be stripped of rights but that is a whole other thread on why I think that.

IMO it sounds like you were in the wrong at one point in the car and that is the part you didn't tell us or don't want to admit

Hoo, boy. that sounds like a hell of a ride. When in doubt, beat the hell of them. I would be more than happy to roll with you in the spirit of sport and work on technique. It is never any fun to get the crap beat out of you, and then have to deal with law enforcement. Believe me, I have been there. I don't really like to fight, but if you find yourself in middle of one, it is best to have the skills to end it as quickly as possible. Best of luck to you.

One of the things I learned a long time ago was that the best defense was a good offence .Unlike most of my family and friends that were always getting into trouble I decided to do what ever took me out of the circle of people I grew up around .I would pop in and out of that circle but would never live it . Your story sounds like someone who has a hard time with life .With the parts about you being in and out I would have to wonder if maybe you don't have some medical issues . You claim you got out of the car as if it was stopped but yet allude to maybe jumping out . Your story would raise flags for me as a juror . There is always two sides or more sides to one story ...Best of luck ...

I think the first thing you should do is take responsibility for yourself and the things that happen in your life. Stop blaming everyone else and make better decisions.

It sounds like you've had strained relations with your family to the point where they are giving you some tough love...I think you are leaving out quite a bit from your story.

Or, perhaps you really are just an innocent victim of circumstances. But I doubt it.

A sharp knife-hand to the sternomastoid will drop the average opponent without causing lasting injury. The hands have to be properly conditioned.

Could you show us the official report?
Something about your story just don't sit right with me.

I'm thinking that you went into some kind of rage when you didn't get your way hit your step dad when he was driving and then you jumped from the moving car which resulted in your cracked skull blood and brain.

a reply to: thesaneone

The driver is claiming that it was a fart. A massive fart.

Such a violent episode of flatulence, that the force of the expanding gases caused me to shoot several feet out of the vehicle.

He attempted to grab me, but alas. The gases incapacitated him and the poor soul wasn't able to immediately stop the car.

a reply to: teachtaire

A fart?? Seriously?
And the state was for that stance from your step dad?
What state?

a reply to: teachtaire

A fart?

Dude come on, just show us the police report this way nobody will call you a out.
What do you have to lose?

a reply to: thesaneone

You want to see the police report? You and me both man. You and me both. I want to know what the hell is going on in this hypothetical situation.

But the fact is, I just don't have it.

Yet.

a reply to: teachtaire

#1. Grow up - IE Stay away from people who will f@#$ you.
#2. Don't put yourself in situations like that.
#3. Get real friends/family. If your family sucks ditch them....

Violence is only worth it if someone is physically threatening your life with a weapon. THIS DOESN'T INCLUDE VERBAL THREATS!

There.. 1,2,3.. Easy. Learn your lesson from this and move on.

You can't really be surprised that the Police, and jail systems are corrupt are you?

a reply to: teachtaire

I am so sick of this country violating the Constitution. Locking innocent people up in jail because they cannot post bail makes my blood boil, and I literally pray to God that He will destroy this horrible, horrible Land. But, alas, the Eighth Amendment was violated in your case. When a person is indigent and cannot post bail, that is called "excessive." The person should be released on their own cognizance, or heck, it's 2014, they can wear a GPS ankle bracelet in lieu of posting bail... (Of course, that makes me cringe since the desire to escape and flea is a natural human response. about half of the people who commit crimes were correct in doing so.)

Anyways, corrupt corrections pigs is nothing new in this country. I sure hope they had their fingers crossed when they took that Oath to the Constitution, because I promise you, the Biblical God will NOT show any one any Mercy who has committed the sin of Dishonor.

Good luck in your case. And if you're going for pro se representation or using a public defender, I'll be more than happy to help you out. (I do not have any legal training, but I do have the Constitution, and that should be enough.)

a reply to: teachtaire

you really really need a constitutional lawyer

a reply to: teachtaire

Does your lawyer not have it yet? If he/she has it then you should.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Remember, this is a thought experiment. God forbid if say, he was speeding intentionally, in a school zone, at the place he worked at, and I had to cover for his ass to make sure he didn't go down for attempted murder and kidnapping. Or lose his house, or his job, or his wife. That would be one #ed up scenario, to have to leave out enough little details to protect someone who is lying out their ass to get you sent to prison. It doesn't seem like there are many people in this world who'd do something like that.

Asking a bunch of conspiracy theorists to have a thought experiment in the hopes that a spook will decide to audit a corrupt facility, what a weird motive. Why, It might actually force the minions of the state to shape up; even if they got smart it'd only make things appear more legit. Honestly, all of the facilities are corrupt, it is the degree of corruption that matters. There really isn't much to bitch about. Besides, this is all imaginary anyway.

So your step dad attacks you, a guard beats you.....
Sounds like you may or may not have a big mouth, or having some addiction issues.
Now you're mad at the jail, placing all your blame on them when you should be blaming yourself. You're trying to find a way to 'bring them down', but it will never work, you see. It is a business and business is booming for that county and nobody in their right mind wants to hamper that. This is like when some people get a ticket and they vow to 'bring down that officer'.

*Now this could be my first assessment of this situation based on what you've told. I'm not claiming it to be true, only that there's always two sides to every story. Now for the second part:

Everything you said could be true. Maybe your step dad did attack you, maybe you have a right to go after the jail....I don't know. But cool story, bro.

a reply to: teachtaire

All I asked is if your lawyer had the report... You have been in jail for months it sounds like and they get that report rather quick. Been through the process, know how it works.

And so you were in a school zone when this happened?
That wasn't part of the original story...
My biggest problem with it all is how you describe your self before he comes back around and "grabs" you.
You go from brains on the ground and no body control to taking down a man twice the size of you and what I assume is military training since you brought it up.
I find it INCREDIBLY hard to believe the state took the fart defense.... That is just out right ridiculous.
It also sounds like there was much more then just one charge, if you had hundreds of thousands of dollars of bail put on you.

If you want us to be in your though experiment then we need to know all the info, not just what you want us to know

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