Michael Moore comments on the latest American shooting.

obviously there are those that like him and those that dont. read what he has said and then forget who said it.......base your opinion on that.

i think it all comes down to a mind set. its established that all countries have guns. take away the criminal element and think of the "normal" citizen. we are all exposed to violent movies and games yet dont have the same problems. we have the same issues with mental health.

its time more thought was put into why america ????

originally posted by: g146541
First he says....

I no longer have anything to say

And then goes on to rant for the next hour...
How is anyone surprised??
Did he rant about knives or cars as well?
With the way he thinks, he really should be looking to ban spoons!
(Edit)
With all of Mr. Moore's hatred towards the US, he still stays here and does not go to a "safer" country...
Why is that, is the best question.
No other country will listen to his whining and make him famous.

Its not just about gun control, its much more fundamentally cultural. Europeans decimated the American Native and enslaved the African. We are still doing these things today, here and abroad. We are subjugating millions globally through economic means. When that has failed, we've used military aggression and have violated human rights and have made political prisoners of those who wanted democracy. This is not sustainable and I think its very clear now that there are organized economic influences being exacted upon our corporate aggressions on third world countries. Once the dollar has been crushed by the Sino-Russo alliance, America will be an autocratic, military state run by presidential decree. We'll all get to see just how all of that inbred anger is hedged against those who resist.

Its the tyranny of wealth and power coupled with the excesses of freedom..

originally posted by: g146541
With all of Mr. Moore's hatred towards the US...

So, in your country, one cannot criticise that which he dislikes about the state of things without being accused of hating America? Sounds kinda un-American to me.
Seems to me that Moore has a very abiding love for his country. Also has the parts to put his money where his mouth is.

Soooo, Mr. Moore's bodyguards don't have guns?
I don't have a link but I remember seeing a video some time ago where he admitted that his bodyguards carry guns. Seems an elitist view to me....YOU can't have a gun to protect yourself but I can hire guys with guns to protect me and not have to bother with all the nonsense.....Pretty neat trick, eh?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: bellagirl
a reply to: roadgravel


but.....the thing is is its the same everywhere yet these mass shootings are predominately american.

No, lets get this right....

Mass shootings that take front page for weeks and create 500 posts on ATS are predominately American. The rest hardly get 15 minutes of fame. Is American life more important than any other human? One would think so by the ruckus heard around the world that comes from Americans dying. I guess we are the special ones or maybe, just maybe, people use American deaths as propaganda for their cause.

I'll let you all decide...is some crazy guy that kills in CA really worth the global coverage that so many others do not get that are far worst?

Yes, exactly.

EVERY single shooting death is beat to death in the media here in America. Maybe you should ask the serious question why?

An entire village of 300 people can be wiped out with AK-47's in Africa and nobody hears about it or if they do they don't care. but if 4 people are killed here it's world news. If the question of "why" doesn't come up in your mind then maybe you don't care about the shootings here either. Maybe they're just a bright spotlight you can use to throw light on your agenda. Just saying.....ask the important question.

Take all the gun assaults and murders here in America then subtract the numbers relating to Washington DC, Chicago, Los Angele's, Miami, Las Vegas and New Orleans. Remove these inner city numbers and you would see that the Country overall is not even near the top of the list in countries of the world in gun violence.

a reply to: gladtobehere

well i just read your link and seriously....did you see the countries you put up as being worse than you.

compare your figures to those of other like minded/similar nations eg: europe/australia/new zealand etc and tell us where you stand.

thats the big problem.......have you just become a nation of ostriches who bury there head in the sand and wont admit whats going on.

i know i will get absolutely hammered for saying this but........is it time you all just stoped beating your chest and chanting usa usa and mature.

Dunno why we're even debating this.

The 2nd Amendment assures us the right to keep and bear arms.

Moore is an idiot.

nuff said.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: dollukka
Every time in history of modern man, when goverment has taken guns away from it´s citizens there has been huge genocides by the goverment.

Ottoman Turky 1915-17 Armenians 1-1.5 Mil. 1866 Art. 166, Penal Code

Soviet Union 1929-53 Anti-Comm. 20 Million 1929 Art. 128, Penal Code

Nazi Germany & occupied Europe 1933-45 Jews, Anti-Nazis, Gypsies 13 Million 1928 Law on Firearms & Ammun/Weapons Law,


China 1948-52 AntiCommunists 20 Million 1935 Arts. 186 & 7 Penal Code. Pro-Reform

Guatemala 1960-81 Mayan Indians 100,000

Uganda 1971-79 Christians, Pol. Rivals 300,000

Cambodia 1975-79 Educated Persons 1 Million Penal Code

TOTAL VICTIMS: 55.9 MILLION

And Guns don´t kill people People and Goverments do.

Australia took the guns away and there has been no genocide by the government.

You show ignorance on the subject when you respond without knowing the truth. Australia didn't have their guns "taken away". They are still able to own firearms. The types were restricted but not overall ownership.

The difference between an armed nation like Australia and the U.S.A is that like the U.K & Europe you are a more socialist nation than the U.S.
The difference between the poor of Australia and the poor of the U.S is chalk and cheese and this is mostly because of socialist programs. Taking people out of poverty reduces crime and give them upward mobility where they are given the tools they need to make something of themselves
The problem is that you need social programs that are invasive in people's lives so that people who don't raise their kids are punished & taken away from them if necessary, you need a proper national curriculum, a free healthcare system so that people can get back on their feet quicker and back to work.
Adopt more social programs that take people out of poverty and they won't be faced with the only option of crime and lack of hope.

Maybe instead of talking out of his ass, he could you know.. read the statistics?

It's been shown time and time again that areas without gun restrictions tend to have lower crime rates. This is another attempt to start a bandwagon brigade to demonize guns again.. even though it's clearly not about guns.

a reply to: bellagirl

I rarely comment on the US and it's gun laws because I live in Britain. We share a common language, and our cultures and values are very similar. However guns are not a major problem in this country for a number of reasons.

We Brits (when we were stil Celts) did most of our fighting against the Romans, Vikings, Saxons and Normans more than a millenium ago. We had a few skirmishes or two and even a civil war in second millenium. But after that most of our battles were in the good old days of Empire when you could nick a man's country by planting the Union Jack and then civilising the natives with a nice cup of tea (actually I think the Indians gave us that! ).

We've moved on and have some very different issues to deal with these days. Guns are low down the list of our priorities.

America developed very differently, as a young nation, founded mainly by people fed up with life on the small rainy islands off the coast of Northern Europe. Eventually citizens needed to protect themselves as they ventured west in the massive expanse of North America. Wild animals, Native Americans, criminals and of course those British redcoats all needed to be dealt with. In the days before instant communication the gun was a tool for maintaining law and order. It hasn't really changed since.

Taking my tongue out of my cheek now I will say this.

Micheal Moore obviously has an agenda. However what is his solution?

As a non-US citizen I would hate to even hint at what Americans should do to solve their perceived gun problems. The US needs to take a long hard look and decide what it's major problems are and identify the solutions. Asking people outside the country is not the answer. Our friends in the USA are the only people who can decide for themselves what the best policies are to reduce these mindless killings. I'm sure you don't want to be told from across the pond what works for us will work for you. It's pretty obvious that it won't.

a reply to: LarryLove

I hate to burst your bubble but I'm Canadian, not American.
We pretty much have the exact same pointless gun laws that you do.
We might have even had them a bit sooner...
Australia has had it's genocides as well as Canada.
Just because our nations starved natives or expiramented on them instead of shooting them doesn't distinguish them from America in the slightest. Your splitting an aweful lot of hairs to be trying to come off holier than thou.
The human heart creates violence...not guns.

-Peace-

a reply to: Eryiedes

Your nationality is irrelevant; the lack of logic in your argument is relevant. It is hard enough understanding all sides on the gun law topic but the addition of nonsense doesn't help.

Edit: you mean the mind not heart.

a reply to: LarryLove


half the trouble with the debate is some just will never get it. they are so irrational and pig headed they can't step away from their view for even one moment to look at the bigger picture.

when i really think seriously about the whole thing and what feeds this irrational defense i keep coming up with fear....is it fear ???.

they fear the government...the world...each other....their rights being taken away...etc etc etc.

and please believe me when i say i am not taking a cheap shot. i am just simply trying to get my mind around how this stuff can happen and why in a first world country that is held up as the glowing beacon of all that is good and great cant deal with this carnage.

originally posted by: beezzer
Dunno why we're even debating this.

The 2nd Amendment assures us the right to keep and bear arms.

Moore is an idiot.

nuff said.

I didn't see Moore or anyone else questioning your right to bear arms or defend your property. He was asking a perfectly valid question, why are Americans keeping a half billion guns laying around and allowing then to fall into the hands of angry or crazy people?

Its one thing to have rights, another to exercise responsibility.

By the way, the wording of the constitution only allows the bearing of arms through government sanctioned "militias", which are purposed to the task of protecting land and people from criminals and foreign armies. It was only recently that the supreme court interpreted that anyone owning a gun to protect his person and property was not violating the constitutional definition.

If the government decided to create a change in national policy, say under a national emergency, the so-called right to bear arms could be revoked under the Patriot Act.

originally posted by: Gianfar

originally posted by: beezzer
Dunno why we're even debating this.

The 2nd Amendment assures us the right to keep and bear arms.

Moore is an idiot.

nuff said.

I didn't see Moore or anyone else questioning your right to bear arms or defend your property. He was asking a perfectly valid question, why are Americans keeping a half billion guns laying around and allowing then to fall into the hands of angry or crazy people?

It's no-ones business how many or what type of weapons we have.

Crazy people will always exist. With or without guns.

Its one thing to have rights, another to exercise responsibility.

It's called personal responsibility.

Not government mandated take-over of our individual responsibility.

By the way, the wording of the constitution only allows the bearing of arms through government sanctioned "militias", which are purposed to the task of protecting land and people from criminals and foreign armies. It was only recently that the supreme court interpreted that anyone owning a gun to protect his person and property was not violating the constitutional definition.

Bullspit.

If the government decided to create a change in national policy, say under a national emergency, the so-called right to bear arms could be revoked under the Patriot Act.

lolz

They can certainly try.

*chuckle*

What is fully ironic about Michael Moore, is that he is good at speaking, but when it comes to taking actions, he does very little in that aspect.

What he fails to mention in what he mentioned, is that California, the hot bed of progressive movements and laws. This also includes one of the most restrictive in the USA. And it ultimately would require tests, background checks, and a restriction on the amount of ammunition, along with a waiting period.

What is sad about this entire event, and he does not even go into it, is that this is going to be another mass shooting that is politicized, and there will be more questions than answers.

The one question that should be asked, and that being, with all of the people who work in Hollywood, for the entertainment industry, the numbers of whom are for gun control, how did this one sad excuse for a person, get ahold of a fire arm?

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Because they only want laws that inhibit you and I.

Not "them", the progressive, ivory tower elitists.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: sdcigarpig

Because they only want laws that inhibit you and I.

Not "them", the progressive, ivory tower elitists.

So, you're paranoid about loosing your rights and you've never actually read the Constitution.

originally posted by: Gianfar

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: sdcigarpig

Because they only want laws that inhibit you and I.

Not "them", the progressive, ivory tower elitists.

So, you're paranoid about loosing your rights and you've never actually read the Constitution.

You're obviously a person who adheres to a political agenda that I disagree with.

And you are wrong on both counts.

Let's save time.

You want gun control.
You want the Constitution re-written.
You probably watch MSNBC and are a fan of Michael Moore.

I will diametrically oppose you.

Neither of us will capitulate.

We'll trade quips concerning our own ideology until you slip up and insult me or I, you.

The mods will step in and delete our posts and probably post-ban either one of us.

Fortunately, we live in a society where even people such as yourself can post ideological extreme thoughts with near impunity.

I will never agree with you.

(See! We just saved so much time and bandwidth!)

Peace and nothing but love and hugs.

beez