Three matadors are gored HAHA!

originally posted by: tadaman
You woulnt understand what we are doing. We dont need to justify our culture or explain ourselves to anyone. I will say this though, We see it as a connection between man and beast. We HIGHLY respect the bull.

i completely agree! you dont need to defend your culture to anyone!

for example, in my culture we love dog fighting. theres no better way to show the love a dog has for its master then when it gets pushed back into the ring, tho it can barely stand and is bleeding from hundreds of wounds, to get killed by its opponent. when im burning its corpse in the open ditch, im not thinking about the money i lost on the bet, but how much that dog loved me to only need 2 or 3 pushes to get back into it. i really cant explain it, and you wouldnt get it, as its a cultural thing.

or like how i get the illegals that work on my ranch to engage in bare knuckle fights. true, some of them get crippled or killed, but they do it cause they love the sport! my people have been doing it since the romans, and i dont need to explain my culture to you!

when i go home to my four wives and tell them, they just dont seem to get it. course the oldest is only 16, prime breeding years, so i guess i can forgive them.

after all, its a cultural thing.

(the above is totally fictional, tho based on true events from around the world, to show how "its a cultural thing" is no excuse for anything)

a reply to: stormson

Thanks....go watch an MMA match or boxing....

Its great you can reduce a practice done since BEFORE written word to being like a dog fight.

You really get it. Your culture must be superior to quantify mine like that.

Your taboos are mine, or at least should be. If not I am intolerant right?

PS. I gave you the star for being cute. You deserve that much, if anything at all.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: stormson

Thanks....go watch an MMA match or boxing....

Its great you can reduce a practice done since BEFORE written word to being like a dog fight.

You really get it. Your culture must be superior to quantify mine like that.

Your taboos are mine, or at least should be. If not I am intolerant right?

PS. I gave you the star for being cute. You deserve that much, if anything at all.

no worries.

there really is no comparison between mma and boxing to bullfighting. two fairly equal people engaging in combat till submission or defeat is not really equal to death being the final outcome in every fight.

but lets think logically about the animal sports. dog fighting probably came first, then bull baiting (setting the dogs on the bulls) then bull fighting. we will never know for sure, but that seems logical to me. and yes, bull fighting, dog fighting, and cock fighting are pretty much all the same.

as for age, slavery is older than writting, yet we can all say it was a pretty bad thing.

puerto rico still loves cock fighting. i mean they really love that stuff. just visit and all their stuff has fighting cocks on it. pretty crazy.

seriously, i can say bullfighting is for pansies and not condemn the whole culture. if it was one guy with a sword and a ticked off bull, have at it. id actually watch that as the bull would win a whole lot more often. several men taking pot shots to bleed the bull and weaken it so the caped one can step in for the glory doesnt strike me as very manly.

compare your bullfighting with our rodeo. we try to ride a bull for 8 seconds. thats it. the bullriders that do it give up counting the broken bones they get. you know what we do with the really bad bulls that no one can ride? breed him! we dont kill them, we reward them with all the cows he can handle. thats respect right there.

as for tolerance, how can you be intolerant if you allow it to happen and think its cool? im the intolerant one that thinks it should be outlawed or made even more dangerous so more matadors die. i see you tried to do that right wing double speak tho, nice.

a reply to: stormson

right wing double speak

careful your bias is showing.

Nice try. This isnt about right VS left. This is you trying to crap on a culture which has outlasted countless other cultures, empires and civilizations with nothing but your own culture as a reference. Really, its such a smart and tolerant thing to do.

You mention bull riding...oh dear god. You do realize where bull riding comes from right?

You dont need to understand it, but to sit there and try to justify your point by hinging it on my political stance is retarded to say the least.

Ride your bulls that are electrically shocked, beaten and taunted so they are extra pissed off for the "SHOW".

Sure we kill them, we also risk dying in the process. Bullfighters fight 2 bulls if not more per match. An animal that can kill 12 men without breaking a sweat. They also get to live free range lives before and sometimes AFTER a bullfight. They are generally kept in the best physical and mental health possible and their owners and FANS celebrate them like celebrities. What do your bulls get? Shocked with cattle prods and carted around like...CATTLE?

Each "jab" as you put it pisses the bull off and makes it more dangerous. Its not just about weakening it, its about making a life and death struggle for man and beast. Most times, without the finishing kill from a sword the bull will live. Sometimes the bull will be spared if its seen as having a great fighting spirit. Kind of misses the point if it were to die afterwards no?

But whatever. I am not going to argue with an ignorant judgmental person bent on crapping on my culture. When your culture is long gone and is only a reference in history books, mine will be fighting bulls and arguing with the next empire and its "golden" superior culture. We dont give a flying chuck what you think. You are temporal people that may not last another 200 years. We have been here since the STONE AGE. We arent changing for the EU, US, UK or anyone else. We have seen plenty of you come and go. We are Iberians and we arent going to change to be like anyone else. Thats why we are still here and KNOW who we are. We are true to our culture and celebrate it like no ones business...BECAUSE ITS NOT. Lets see if the US is even remotely "American" in even 100 more years.

I wont justify it to you, while you revel in death culture and try to justify its superiority.

You watch men beat each other into bloody comas and sustain lifelong head injuries (SOME DIE). You watch people shoot each other and torture each other for entertainment. (do you own the box set of "saw" movies yet) You cheer on executions like medieval cultures full of blood lust. You celebrate death when its "justified" in war or in society, and you continue to live in a world that eats mass tortured animals and cages animals for our amusement.

Excuse me if we face off against bulls. You are so much better than us. Do you hunt? If so try going at it with an animal 10 times your strength in a closed ring with nothing but a cape and a little spear that only inflicts a flesh wound.

Nice double talk, left or right that it may be. I think its just mental diarrhea on your part. You judge my culture and fail to see the hypocrisy in that judgement coming from someone living in the greatest death culture that ever existed.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: stormson

right wing double speak

careful your bias is showing.

Nice try. This isnt about right VS left. This is you trying to crap on a culture which has outlasted countless other cultures, empires and civilizations with nothing but your own culture as a reference. Really, its such a smart and tolerant thing to do.

You mention bull riding...oh dear god. You do realize where bull riding comes from right?

You dont need to understand it, but to sit there and try to justify your point by hinging it on my political stance is retarded to say the least.

Ride your bulls that are electrically shocked and taunted so they are extra pissed off when they are ready for the "SHOW".

Sure we kill them, we also risk dying in the process. Bullfighters fight 2 bulls if not more per match. An animal that can kill 12 men without breaking a sweat. They also get to live free range lives before and sometimes AFTER a bullfight. They are generally kept in the best physical and mental health possible and their owners and FANS celebrate them like celebrities. What do your bulls get? Shocked with cattle prods and carted around like...CATTLE?

Each "jab" as you put it pisses the bull off and makes it more dangerous. Its not just about weakening it, its about making a life and death struggle for man and beast. Most times, without the finishing kill from a sword the bull will live. Sometimes the bull will be spared if its seen as having a great fighting spirit. Kind of misses the point if it were to die afterwards no?

you say the matador could die. 533 since 1700 have died. less than 2 per year. how many bulls? do the math and you have a pretty good chance at living.

again, i can bag on aspects of "your culture" without condemning the culture itself. i do it with my own all the time.


But whatever. I am not going to argue with an ignorant judgmental person bent on crapping on my culture. When your culture is long gone and is only a reference in history books, mine will be fighting bulls and arguing with the next empire and its "golden" superior culture. We dont give a flying chuck what you think. You are temporal people that may not last another 200 years.

I wont justify it to you, while you revel in death culture and try to justify its superiority.

You watch men beat each other into bloody comas and sustain lifelong head injuries (SOME DIE). You watch people shoot each other and torture each other for entertainment. (do you own the box set of "saw" movies yet) You cheer on executions like medieval cultures full of blood lust. You celebrate death when its "justified" in war or in society, and you continue to live in a world that eats mass tortured animals and cages animals for our amusement.

Excuse me if we face off against bulls. You are so much better than us. Do you hunt? If so try going at it with an animal 10 times your strength in a closed ring with nothing but a cape and a little spear that only inflicts a flesh wound.

Nice double talk, left or right that it may be. I think its just mental diarrhea on your part. You judge my culture and fail to see the hypocrisy in that judgement coming from someone living in the greatest death culture that ever existed.

again, i never really said anything about your culture. just showing how "its my culture" is a lame reason for anything. it absolves you of thought and critical thinking.

im talking about bull fighting.

now be honest. those little flesh wounds you write of really aren't that light. they are designed to incapacitate the bull. i watched a fight one time. the bull came out hard, hit a wall and broke the thing. magnificent! then he was hamstrung so he couldnt move as well. then he was stabbed so he was bleeding out. by the time the matador came out he wasnt much of a threat. also, i dont know if the bull is trained to follow the flapping cape or if its just part of the way the bulls react, but that seems to be the trick. the bull gets distracted by the flapping cape, allowing the matador to step safely to the side.

btw, i do hunt. boar. with a spear. so i guess i am better. see, a boar is a really vicious animal. to spear hunt it you first have to really tick it off so it charges you. then you lift the spear so it impales itself on it. if the shaft brakes, you could be toast. if it swerves so you dont get the spear up, youre toast. lots of variables. however, its just me and the beast, healthy and ticked off. it not me against a boar my boys just beat up to make me look good.

a reply to: stormson

by the time the matador came out he wasnt much of a threat. also, i dont know if the bull is trained to follow the flapping cape or if its just part of the way the bulls react

its about the bulls line of sight. You have to lead him into a charge and place your body just outside his charge. You only really see the experienced bullfighters. The amateurs learning the trade have a high injury rate. Allot die in the process of becoming a bullfighter or are seriously injured.

The bull can easily kill you even after all those wounds. Plenty do. If you didnt notice the ones to get maimed in the story were the matadors. They come out after everyone else when the bull is a pushover as you would like to think.
Apparently the bull is still a freaking bull, fighting for its life...like the Matador.

So you hunt because the local grocery store doesnt have enough meat? Or because you try to pin some extra honor to your practice? Your words ring of how noble you think it is.

Some here would call you a sick barbarian for even killing an animal where there is no need for it. You going hungry or something?

I am not going to respond anymore.

Have at it. Quantify a cultural practice without even bothering to get better informed about it.

Your post with the dog fighting was brilliant by the way. You crapped on about half of the world... And we wonder why the world considers Americans AND Europeans as being arrogant.

Enjoy.

a reply to: tadaman


the spanish ARE european. darn near brought the eu down as well due to their debt.

as for boar hunting, let them talk. i will say the same thing to them as im trying to get you to say. i do it cause i want to. difference is the boar has a chance. theres a reason boar dogs wear kevlar after all.

my problem with your post, and your follow up posts, is your insistence that "its my culture" makes it all right. slavery was part of my culture, yet it was never alright. so was manifest destiny, but we got rid of that or iraq and afganistan would say "property of the u.s." right now.

if you like bullfights, fine, just dont pass it off as "its my culture" so its ok. man up and say "i like bullfights cause i like them".

as for your culture argument, every culture has both good and bad traits. im sure youre not that proud of the inquisition, or go witch hunting because its part of your culture. perhaps bullfighting is part of your culture that you should distance yourself from. or totally embrace as awesome! but do it because you want to, not because "its my culture".

a reply to: stormson

The Eu was nearly brought down from the combined debt of fiat currency and fractal banking that the entire world operates on for the most part. The US suffered too and is equally to blame. It was a near global collapse which we will see rear its head again since nothing has changed for the better. Italy, portugal, and many others are in the same position as Spain. Singling out Spain as a special culprit is dishonest at least or down right uninformed to say.. Its a lie too. If France and Germany hadnt lent so much money beforehand they couldnt float on the interest being collected. They too would be operating at a loss immediately after the collapse of 2008, which they MAY be doing anyways now. Its the nature of our financial system which is at fault not a single country. Spain was one of the few countries if not the only country to follow all guidelines set by the EU and the IMF.

I dont know what that has to do with bullfighting...another cheap shot at my people like many in this pitiful dumbing down of humanity thread?

Also, I did say we like because we like it. Hence why we do it. We have reasons behind that appreciation is all, like all things people like. We have reasons. Ours is culturally based. Why do we own guns in the US? Its as much part of our culture being that we are a country born of a revolution as it is founded in our reasons for them. Its not just for self defence. Those are our reasons, but our traditions come into play as well. Its part of our idiosyncrasy.

Bullfighting is similarly part of my culture. That is not me justifying it. That view of justifying it is entirely on your end. I dont care if its right or wrong to others outside of my culture. I say that distinction is irrelevant to us. We like bullfighting BECAUSE its a tradition we passed down since before the dawn of civilization. Its part of who we are. Its not a pass time like baseball. We highly respect the bull and identify our people with its image like the US with the bald eagle. To us at one point in history it was the most powerful beast we knew and to challenge it was to embrace and overcome our inner animal. Bullfighting is in essence becoming one with the animal in a primordial struggle of survival and for the civilized man to overcome him and in so doing to overcome his inner beast. I am not just pulling this out of my ass. We had whole religions and mythology based on the bull.

Most wouldnt really understand. They have sacrificed their traditions and cultural practices so many times they lack any real identity from our point of view. We never had problems like the US is facing now for example. We have always adapted to the times without sacrificing our core beliefs or identity. The US wont have an iota of "Americanism" left in even another 100 years thanks to it listening to everyone under the sun as to what it should be.

At some point you just have to do you. If not you are as transient and temporal as the empires and powers that rule on any given day in history.

We arent changing this aspect of our culture. Its important to us BECAUSE its our culture and as such is irreplaceable... especially with whatever the UN, EU, or current regional or world ideologies are pushing. That is also why we like it. We are proud of who we are and it feels great to say that. This is to us as Spanish as apple pie is American.

Its as much part of our culture as it is part of who we are and we LIKE being who we are.

We dont need to justify it to others who have lost their cultural identity a thousand times over or explain it to others not really interested in learning anything from it.

The world is full of people whose identity is based on just the last couple hundred years. Iberians have learned from countless civilizations and cultures over millennia that have passed through our lands. Some came in peace others as conquerors. We learned from all what was best for us and discarded the rest. What we kept we did so because it was considered worthy. The muslim moores taught us advanced architecture to name one contribution. The phoenicians advanced mathematics and language. The romans showed us a plethora of techniques for governance. The visigoths city planning and philosophical ideas.

These groups taught us many other things too and there were countless other groups I cant think of right now. The EU and our current global civilization has taught us other things we place very highly in terms of value to our peoples future.

We arent negotiating though. We choose what we keep and what we incorporate. We are keeping this practice of bullfighting and you would be a fool to call us barbarians for it. We know why we do it and that is enough for us at least.

EDIT TO ADD:

the spanish ARE european.

Europe never really considered us European unless it was convenient.

To us, we are Iberian first and foremost, not just European....and within that, our regions people first and foremost. I am an Asturian before I am a Spaniard.

I carry that with me. I am a New Yorker before I am an American.

there is a difference.

I responded because I wanted to say this much: I would like for you to understand my people better so as to understand your own better. I can see this from your point of view. Learn to see it from mine. Somewhere in between is A truth that applies to all people.

Never been a fan of bullfighting (except in cartoons, they're actually funny there), but if these guys brains are going to be all machismo, no common sense, and just plain stupid enough to go up against these with little more than life-sized 'dress up barbie and ken clothes and sharpened sticks'....well, you can see the results aren't always as planned.

I understand it's tradition and I'm not doing any 'ban this' activities, but I have only ever watched about 15 seconds at a time of a bullfight...usually the parts uploaded to youtube where these guys are getting new piercings.

Would I ever go to one of these? No way, no more than I'd go to the running of the bulls. It's just plain crazy in my book.

a reply to: tadaman

that was a whole lotta words to say "spain is awesome, which is why i live in new york!"

a reply to: stormson

Sir if that's all you got from that then I have wasted my time with you. I should have just trolled you and had a laugh.

You are obviously out of steam.

And I don't live in NY. I was born and raised in NY.

You are dumb, but I'm dumber for trying to reason with you.

Enjoy the alien world you think you live in and the discord you will always have with 90% of the population not like you.

I have a long time hatred for bullfighting and these matadors. I detest them, their so say "sport". Honestly, I think its a shame the injuries were not worse...

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: stormson

Sir if that's all you got from that then I have wasted my time with you. I should have just trolled you and had a laugh.

You are obviously out of steam.

And I don't live in NY. I was born and raised in NY.

You are dumb, but I'm dumber for trying to reason with you.

Enjoy the alien world you think you live in and the discord you will always have with 90% of the population not like you.

so youre not even spanish but american! and just like an american, stealing another countries heritage to make yourself feel better.

you know what else i got from your posts? that spain has a long history of being conquered. guess thats a cultural thing to?

a reply to: stormson

lol

that spain has a long history of being conquered. guess thats a cultural thing to?

Youre quite the troll.

Another cheap shot at Spain? Nice. Everyones been conquered. At least we kept winning our homeland back. At least we still keep our cultural identity despite the worlds greatest empire´s best efforts. I would take notice that half the world speaks Spanish and the second most spoken language in the world after Mandarin is Spanish (English was first...now 3rd, lets keep it up I hear fourth is open). Apparently the world isnt going to forget our contributions anytime soon. What is the difference between conquering and being conquered? Enjoy your rodeos. LOL. Youre welcome.


I would like to say the US will keep its values and its traditions but sadly we will probably lose all that we are without a single shot fired thanks to people like you who are too busy with their entertainment and "showing face" to take time to actually improve themselves and their people.

just like an american, stealing another countries heritage

Americans steal other peoples culture? You said it not me.

I am an American sure. A first generation son of a spanish Immigrant who has personally lived in Spain among other places. I keep my traditions and values and live what I preach. I dont need to make the world like me or find validity in the opinions of others. It takes actually knowing who you and your people are to accomplish that in any meaningful way. I learn from others, I dont assimilate them or become assimilated by them. You are an amalgamation of countless fads and other peoples "new" ideas you dont even know who you are or what the hell you are talking about.

Try getting out of your home town once in a while. The world doesnt end where your little world´s borders do.

You are the prime example of why people like myself have to almost apologise to people of other nationalities for the ignorance and backwardness of my countrymen. I am talking about Americans here. Do us and yourself a favor, read a book, go back to school, get a hobby not entirely engulfed in your personal entertainment and not brought to you from a freaking screen.

Sad /pathetic.

EDIT TO ADD:
Heres my inner Spaniard for you and all the haters:

Eres una persona sin identidad, ni de pueblo ni de patria. Eres un traidor al hombre libre que rinde su pueblo y su cultura al mas alto precio. Un esclavo sin sueños de libertad ni pesadillas ni peso de cadenas que te entorpecen.

Ni sabes quien eres pero quieres decirme quien debo ser.

que te den por la cristiandad.

Translation:
You're a person with no identity, not of a people or a country. You are a traitor to free men who surrenders his people and their culture to the highest price. A slave without dreams of freedom or nightmares of even the weight of the chains that hinder you.

You do not even know who you are but you tell me who I should be.

screw that /you

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: stormson

lol

that spain has a long history of being conquered. guess thats a cultural thing to?

Youre quite the troll.

Another cheap shot at Spain? Nice. Everyones been conquered. At least we kept winning our homeland back. At least we still keep our cultural identity despite the worlds greatest empire´s best efforts. I would take notice that half the world speaks Spanish and the second most spoken language in the world after Mandarin is Spanish (English was first...now 3rd, lets keep it up I hear fourth is open). Apparently the world isnt going to forget our contributions anytime soon. What is the difference between conquering and being conquered? Enjoy your rodeos. LOL. Youre welcome.


I would like to say the US will keep its values and its traditions but sadly we will probably lose all that we are without a single shot fired thanks to people like you who are too busy with their entertainment and "showing face" to take time to actually improve themselves and their people.

just like an american, stealing another countries heritage

Americans steal other peoples culture? You said it not me.

I am an American sure. A first generation son of a spanish Immigrant who has personally lived in Spain among other places. I keep my traditions and values and live what I preach. I dont need to make the world like me or find validity in the opinions of others. It takes actually knowing who you and your people are to accomplish that in any meaningful way. I learn from others, I dont assimilate them or become assimilated by them. You are an amalgamation of countless fads and other peoples "new" ideas you dont even know who you are or what the hell you are talking about.

Try getting out of your home town once in a while. The world doesnt end where your little world´s borders do.

You are the prime example of why people like myself have to almost apologise to people of other nationalities for the ignorance and backwardness of my countrymen. I am talking about Americans here. Do us and yourself a favor, read a book, go back to school, get a hobby not entirely engulfed in your personal entertainment and not brought to you from a freaking screen.

Sad /pathetic.

EDIT TO ADD:
Heres my inner Spaniard for you and all the haters:

Eres una persona sin identidad, ni de pueblo ni de patria. Eres un traidor al hombre libre que rinde su pueblo y su cultura al mas alto precio. Un esclavo sin sueños de libertad ni pesadillas ni peso de cadenas que te entorpecen.

Ni sabes quien eres pero quieres decirme quien debo ser.

que te den por la cristiandad.

Translation:
You're a person with no identity, not of a people or a country. You are a traitor to free men who surrenders his people and their culture to the highest price. A slave without dreams of freedom or nightmares of even the weight of the chains that hinder you.

You do not even know who you are but you tell me who I should be.

screw that /you

youre quite verbose.

i like how you say you chose your own identity, yet this whole time you relied on the "its my culture" as an argument, when it isnt even your culture! its your fathers culture, as you are a new yorker.

i bet you even describe yourself as "latino" even tho spanish is a regional country dialect of latin, created by the italians. by that logic, im germanic as english is mostly german based, right?

what traditions did you keep? your american traditions and culture? or did you jettison them to be cool? "im not american, im latino" spoken with a new york accent.

spanish is widely spoken. true. yet every spanish country is less than america. breeding isnt much of an accomplishment.

so mr spanish, are you like most other spanish men and live with your mommy till your 30?

either way, bullfighting is a farce, just like spanish footballers that flop to the ground trying to get a penalty.

no tengo pelos en la lengua

a reply to: stormson

youre quite verbose.

i like how you say you chose your own identity, yet this whole time you relied on the "its my culture" as an argument, when it isnt even your culture! its your fathers culture, as you are a new yorker.

i bet you even describe yourself as "latino" even tho spanish is a regional country dialect of latin, created by the italians. by that logic, im germanic as english is mostly german based, right?

what traditions did you keep? your american traditions and culture? or did you jettison them to be cool? "im not american, im latino" spoken with a new york accent.

spanish is widely spoken. true. yet every spanish country is less than america. breeding isnt much of an accomplishment.

so mr spanish, are you like most other spanish men and live with your mommy till your 30?

either way, bullfighting is a farce, just like spanish footballers that flop to the ground trying to get a penalty.

no tengo pelos en la lengua

1. It is my culture. I dont even know how to explain that to someone who doesnt even know me? You want to see my Spanish passport or something? LOL

2. Romance languages developed together. I speak Spanish. It is a romance language like Italian, French, and portuguese. Spanish CASTILIAN is a dialect of spain that was adopted by the catholic kings that united the different regions and their respective kingships under one crown. Castilian is one of many dialects. We actually have several separate languages spoken in Spain. Basque, Catalan, Galician just to name the most well known. They were once their own languages in their own right until they more or less merged with Castilian, with the exception of Basque that still is its own unique language. Basque is unique to our part of the world. Another great aspect of Spain: we are already so varied and diverse as a people that we have no problem adjusting to other peoples customs. We learned to coexist with different cultures long ago. We are really good at it.

My heritage is hispanic. My culture can be described as hispanic being that it I come from a spanish speaking background. My ethnicity can be described as partly Latino since I have some Cuban blood on my mothers side. "Latino" and "Hispanic" are entirely separate concepts ignorant people lump together out of sloth for learning....One is a cultural reference and the other is a reference to ethnicity. You can be a hispanic latino....maybe you didnt know that before you tried to school me on it.LOL

You're Not a racist idiot are you.... bringing all this up? Really that out of steam? LOL

I kept the traditions I learned at home. I am probably more american than you "Mr americans steal other cultures heritage". Like most first generation immigrants we love this country more than you pansy ass whiners that find a fault with every damn thing under the sun with it since you come from an entitlement culture directly feeding off the tit of the baby boomers. My family is patriotic and community oriented. Can you say the same thing without contempt for your people and its heritage?

We LOVE this country while you were just born here. We CHOSE to live here while you were just popped out of your mother one day and were handed a passport. Needless to say I dont need to forgo one culture to BE ENRICHED by another. I keep both heritages since they are compatible. Some Americans dont dont even preserve American values and traditions. You used to RESPECT people and carry yourself with honor. The attitude you are showing here is the sort of crap we used to deem VERY un-American. You dont agree with me so you resort to cheap shots at everything from my ethnicity to my culture? You are a TERRIBLE American. I am ashamed of people like you and dont consider you my countrymen. If this country ever falls it will be because of people like you .

BTW Hate NY hispanics much? Ignorant ****snip**** I am probably MORE WHITE than you and more American than you.

3. I am not talking about breeding "mr LESS THAN AMERICA". (arrogant 80s American macho man) My culture has left a lasting impression on every continent and I said that in response to your post that inferred that we are conquered often. You can rewrite history all you like. We were the 4th largest empire to occupy the world ever after Russia.

I was talking about the cultural relevance of my people. You probably live in a town my people named...LOL. IN 100, 200, 300 years from now my people will be able to directly communicate in OUR native language with over half of the worlds populations. Our culture is prolific. Spain makes up less than 1% of the global population, yet our language is the second most spoken language BEFORE ENGLISH. You can say what you want but thats freaking impressive.

4, No, I moved out of my house at 18 and have been working since I was legally able to having applied for my working permit as a minor. Another trait immigrants have. Superior work ethic (something that used to be part of the American ethos). My family has employed THOUSANDS of people in just 30 years. I have employed probably 40-50 and am just 30 YO. I will be successful because one of the traditions I keep of MY HOME the US is pulling yourself up by your own boot straps. Coincidentally it is very similar to the traditional values my family had in Spain. That is VERY American. Tell me if it still is? You can say what you want but your generation is failing this country because you are full of isht. Your parents raised you to be full of it and you are raising your kids to be full of it. That is why we have massive societal decay in our country: Because you have abandoned all your core values for BS. That isnt an issue in my family. We stick to basics.

5. Spanish football is currently the worlds best. The titles we have say as much. That changes over time, but lately we rock in football, basketball and other sports not followed in the US. But really? Sports is your comeback? You are a total brute arent you. Out of all steam and thought. Racist crap and sports? What are you a freaking hillbilly trying to educate me? LOL You are in a position to shut up and learn(maybe not from me), not dictate a damn thing (especially to me).

the LAST THING you had to say is about bullfighting...in a bullfighting thread. You have done nothing but attack either me or my people. You have done nothing but validate my argument and provide me with many opportunities to elaborate on just how wrong you are. Thank you, really. I couldnt have done it without you. Every post you make TRYING to to crap on me by taking cheap shots at my people or our culture gives me the opportunity to shut you down and school you.

I have done my people justice and you have shamed yourself and shown everyone how ignorant and wrong you are.

You can keep it up. I can do this all day long. You say its being verbose. I see it as USING MY WORDS. I am an intelligent, well adjusted, prosperous and fierce Spaniard full of passion. Youre damn skippy.

VIVA ESPAÑA CABRONES!

a reply to: tadaman

Well I gave you some stars but... some things should not get unscathed...

" I am an Asturian before I am a Spaniard"

I'm sorry but... as an european, I dont see "asturian" as a people... screw you elitist people with your little make-believe reigns and your make believe kings... lol... what the hell is "Asturias" anyway?

Asturias DIED IN THE 900s AD... GET OVER IT. Theres no Asturias, there never was... for a 1000 years... what are you? One of those 1000 year reich that never woke up? This is reality...

a reply to: FraternitasSaturni

no man. You really dont understand the mentality.

I am referring to the fact that we have very distinct types of spaniards. Its just part of our idiosyncrasy. We dont crap on each other for being from a particular region or part of the world. We just have very well documented and celebrated histories we find enrich our lives and country without having to sacrifice who we are /were.

We are celts in the north. That is what Asturian culture is. Celtic. We are celts before we are Spaniards, BUT we ARE spaniards.

Asturian culture isnt dead!! That is absurd! Its never been more celebrated ! The fact you have Flamenco dancing in the south, bag pipes in the north, arabic architecture in the south, celtic mythology in the north, ect is because we have this mentality.

Its not a "we are better than you" mentality. Its a "this is who we are" mentality.

A scott is not an englishman. Try arguing that they are english. A Texan isnt a yank...try telling him that.

We all have this mentality to a degree. Its just very pronounced and celebrated in Spain since we always had the juxtaposition of different cultures to define those traits.

I am confused as to where you see an ultra nationalistic quality to it. Asturians have traditionally been anti statist and left leaning anarcho communists.

Asturias isnt dead! LOL. We are encouraged to preserve our culture and celebrate it since we see it as enriching not only ourselves but Spain as a whole! Not detracting from it.

The EU could learn a thing or two from Spain in that respect. We have no hostilities because of it and generate REAL unity out of the respect it allows for each in his own. We encourage signs to be in both castilian and native dialects. Public announcements and printed press to be available in both...local TV to be available in both for at least one channel. Hell if you go to the Basque region it feels like a different country! You cant even read a road sign or a business sign.

We encourage diversity and a real cultural identity. THAT is the only valid road to unity and peace. Its a spanish mentality we have learned to enforce since it makes us a more resilient people to fads and temporal social fluctuations of the time. It is not out of hate or superiority. Its out of cultural pride and longevity as a people.

Those who know spaniards know that. I hate flamenco dancing, paella, spanish guitar, and most things the world identifies with Spain. I love bagpipes, Faba beans, cider, Mountainous country sides, green lush vegetation, RAIN...all things my background has brought to my life growing up. To this day I get depressed in flat farm land with no rain. I need mountains. I need greenery.

Galicians love the sea, viking culture, ect...They need to live on the coast, work at sea, they eat ALLOT of sea food, hate really warm /dry weather...ect

We are a very diverse people who love their regional culture.

I still like plenty of "Spanish" things, like I do European things. Its not a threat to Spain or Europe. We are better for it.

I have read the NY constitution, our history ect. I celebrate all things NY. Its not bad for the US. All the contrary. If more people were aware of their states history and micro culture there would be a more culturally richer USA....LIKE IT USED TO BE.

In fact the whole world used to be like that. It wasnt until globalism saw it as a threat to centralized power that it was fought against. (during the rise of statist governments) Lazy xenophobic leadership produced that. Its still around. Pissing on the US constitution wouldnt be as easy if each state stood up for its people in the spirit of their cultural identity.

Every defiance to federal or central government impositions and oppressions has been traditionally produced by local communities who still have cohesion and unified ideologies.

Elitist may take issue with a culturally strong people. The people should never. Its their greatest defence against the test of time and empire. Why is the EU stomping out cultural identity? Because they know that a demoralized, transient people with no memory of their history or their identity are easier to control.

Free men love and respect their own identity and as a result find love and respect of others on similar grounds of mutual respect and tolerance...If you want peace you must first respect the other side. To respect the other side you must first respect yourself.

ALl else is BS.

EDIT TO ADD:
for your enjoyment.


PUXA ASTURIAS!

a reply to: tadaman

Ok... undestand this.

Texas exists.

Scotland exists.

The kingdom of Asturias doesnt exists since the 900s... thats like me wanting to claim myself as Lusitanian in the 21st century. You see how how dumb that sounds? I mean... really? All our history went all past that... please... all that medieval age... let... it... go. Our ancestors did a fine good job and without them we wouldnt be here but... think about it... would they want the future to be stuck on the past? Or did they sacrifice their present to assure our future?

Come on... forget all those notions of kingdoms and lands and frontiers long gone and think about the future thats ahead of us. And in that future theres no space for "asturias" or "lusitania" or "rome" or any of those ancient concepts of sovereignty. I know you want to honor your past but to be honest... its only a bunch of dead people like a million of other that come before them and tens of thousands that came after them really... its pretty simple when you look at it that way - that and a piece of cloth painted with pretty colours.

a reply to: FraternitasSaturni

The political kingdom doesnt exist sure. The people, identity, culture, customs, language, mythology, history, and everything else that makes them Asturian does.

May it never fade. It makes Spain and Europe a more culturally rich and interesting place.

I have no care for political boarders, or military history.

I find strength in my people. All my people. Nothing will replace that. We will never forget.

EDIT TO ADD:

forget all those notions of kingdoms and lands and frontiers long gone and think about the future thats ahead of us

A people who forget their past deserve no future.

There is a reason some peoples fade into the footnotes of history while others read about them.

I love NY

PUXA Asturias!

Viva España!

Go USA!

The flag of Asturias shows the "Cruz de la Victoria" (Victory Cross) in gold (yellow PMS 109) over blue (PMS 829).

According to the tradition, this Cross was carried by Don Pelayo (later King Pelayo), in the decisive Battle of Covadonga against the Moors in 722. This battle, fought in the mountains of Asturias, was hailed by 19th and 20th century historiography as the start of the "Reconquista" or Re-conquest of Iberia from "Moorish domination."

The coat of arms of the State of New York was formally adopted in 1778, and appears as a component of the State's flag and seal.

The shield displays a masted ship and a sloop on the Hudson River river (symbols of inland and foreign commerce), bordered by a grassy shore and a mountain range in the background with the sun rising behind it. The unheraldic nature of the Hudson River landscape reveals the modern origin of the design.

The shield has two supporters:

Left: Liberty, with the Revolutionary imagery of a Phrygian cap raised on a pole. Her left foot treads upon a crown that represents freedom from the British monarchy that once ruled what is now New York as a colony.

Right: Justice, wearing a blindfold (representing impartiality) and holding scales (representing fairness) and a sword.
A banner below the shield shows the motto Excelsior, a Latin word meaning “higher”, “superior”, “lordly”, commonly translated as “Ever Upward.”

The Phrygian cap is a soft conical cap with the top pulled forward, associated in antiquity with the inhabitants of Phrygia, a region of central Anatolia. In early modern Europe it came to signify freedom and the pursuit of liberty, through a confusion with the pileus, the felt cap of manumitted (emancipated) slaves of ancient Rome. Accordingly, the Phrygian cap is sometimes called a liberty cap

wiki

"It is the dissimilarities and inequalities among men which give rise to the notion of honor; as such differences become less, it grows feeble; and when they disappear, it will vanish too."

"Nothing seems at first sight less important than the outward form of human actions, yet there is nothing upon which men set more store: they grow used to everything except to living in a society which has not their own manners."

"Every central government worships uniformity: uniformity relieves it from inquiry into an infinity of details."

"As the past has ceased to throw its light upon the future, the mind of man wanders in obscurity."

"After having thus successively taken each member of the community in its powerful grasp and fashioned him at will, the government then extends its arm over the whole community. It covers the surface of society with a network of small, complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence: it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd."

Alexis de Tocqueville

Do not surrender who you are. Nothing is worth that. Nothing can replace that. Nothing is more dangerous to freedom from tyranny.