Rape and Mens Passive Acceptence

a reply to: crayzeed

I completely understand the concept of our base instincts, pheromones, and such.....I'm a evolution guy. But the concept that our base instinct excuses criminal behavior or is any kind of moral " get out if jail free" card is just stupid. If someday we found out serial killers are 100% a genetic switch. That it was the way were were "supposed" to live. Would excuse going around and killing people.


Our base instincts have zero Bering on right and wrong. Right and wrong are based on in a lot of cases denying those base instincts.


Take even me. More then once have I thought "man I would love to just grab this or that random attractive chic and go to town". In reality in my sex life I'm far more turned on by a chic throwing me on the bed and going to town :p.


Put in a situation where I was to walk in on some one raping some attractive chic there is no way it would make me wanna join in. Not even as a first base natural instinct. There's reality and fantasy . As a human being your con joys enought to know the difference. That's what seperates us from the monkeys.

a reply to: InSolace

Very noble ideals they are ,true. But will never,ever happen. Not in a million generations. Humans are personally unique in body and mind. There will ALWAYS be some one who want to control other humans and that includes rape and all the other anti-social behaviours. A point in instant. What is looked on as socially acceptable and even encouraged is the power structures in upper management. It is a proven fact that the most successful top CEOs have sociopathic tendencies exactly the same as murderers. Just because they don't go round murdering people does not change the fact that they could murder someone and it would not bother them psychologically as it would a normal person. Every human is different no matter how idealistic you are you can't alter or "breed into" them civilized behaviour. There will always be murderers,rapists,thieves and all other associated low lifes. Just try like all of us to keep away from them.

a reply to: crayzeed

You're arguing on power structures. Nonetheless they are still power structures. We can explain them, understand them... Not through our basal instincts or emotions, but through language. Ideas can spread the same way evolution can change. For blast's sake, even the tools we create change the course of our evolution through neuroplasticity.

Every human is different, but some items of knowledge we should discuss. Guess why most sociopaths get away with rape? Because there's still no social upbringing to support it. These questions remain, but people decide to look on the determined sides of things: "They're animals, we're civilized", "she was wrongly dressed, they're nutters" from the approach of societal norms about rape and rapists because that's all we know.

You may be a pessimist, crayzeed, and even a realist. I consider myself an optimist who at least wants to solve this grave and painful trauma which the species inflicts upon itself in the name of evolutionary progress.

I may be wrong, but castration and shipwrecking rapists because there's simply "no choice" is too rich for me. It's treating the symptoms, not the sickness.

a reply to: InSolace

I agree but the power structures also tell the sociopaths that if they do attempt it that they will be caught and punished, thus increasing the risk in the mind of the perpetrator. The problem is the power structure is flawed when dealing with these types of crimes.
You need to punish them and they do have to be harsh but I don't believe in vigilante justice but the severity of the crime should mean you are putting them away for the rest of their lives, as it is a life sentence for the victim.

But i agree that we need to deal with the underlying social issue but it's a complicated problem and I think it's an easier solution to solve in a small country like Scotland but in America where you have a very strong conservative base, the policies required would be seen as socialist so goes against the fabric of your country.

The solution is increased social services and removing children from abusive and uneducated parents early because imo that's where the breakdown happens. Kids that are in an unloving and abusive background can go 2 ways and that's to be strong and refuse to carry on the cycle or perpetuate it and thus continue the cycle of abuse.
So I think we should come down hard on parents who are abusive and tell people that in this day and age that if you don't raise your kids responsibly they will be taken away from you.

I know this will be baulked at by the Americans here but I believe in the social services in my country and although there are failings where abuse has been ignored and kids have died I also believe that this is caused by nanny state bureaucracy which ties the hands of the public servants from doing their job properly.

Think what the OP is trying to say in regards to a large number of men passively accepting it is seen in the rape culture, where the victim is blamed for "not being more careful".

I believe it isn't a one way street for blame in some cases. For example: A girl goes to a party, gets drunk/drugged, passes out, gets raped. Wakes up and realizes something isn't right, if not outright wrong.
A lot of people I've seen that reply to stories like these like to say "she shouldn't have gotten drunk in the first place!" or "She shouldn't be partying with guys in the first place!" Or usually something along those lines or something about tempting the guys there.

This is victim blaming. It's a way of saying "boys will be boys" and that it was her own fault. She set herself up for it.
This type of attitude towards rape cases shouldn't be accepted. Period. Those involved should be held accountable for their actions and their actions looked down upon. Otherwise it's a passive way of saying this type of behavior is O.K.

But I also believe that women also need to take precautions to protect themselves too in these cases. They need to realize that not every person out there has her best interests at heart. I don't have a problem with party-goers, but in these cases a girl shouldn't accept drinks from anyone (except perhaps directly from the bartender) and she should know her limits when it comes to drinking and not cross that line.

I am not a supporter of rape culture, but the world is not a safe place and sometimes we have to take it upon ourselves for self preservation instead of relying on the morals and decency of others. It's sad, but it's true.

But this doesn't cover all cases. There are cases when a woman is forcibly raped without the help of alcohol or drugs. I see victim blaming to a lesser extent at these times, but it is still there. Usually someone saying, "She probably tempted him by her (choice of fashion here)." And to hear such things is appalling. A woman should be able to dress how she wants without being attacked for it.

Unfortunately, the only solution I can see is active parenting by both parents from an early age about subjects such as this one. We can't change the past, but we can shape our future.

originally posted by: onehuman


Why do men not, as a collective let it be known amongst their peers that this just isnt acceptable beyond the public stance,

Because men aren't going to act as a collective anymore than the entire race is. It's like asking why all humans don't get together and decide to stop being crappy to one another? I don't know, why don't we?

Every man in my circle of friends and family have no passive acceptance for rape of anyone, man or woman. I mean, they could by lying, but I've never experienced any man once taking about rape as if it was something they would actually do, or tolerate regardless of whether or not it was a family member. Things like they should all be shot, hung, etc etc. Whenever talking about bad people, it usually starts with "bad people like rapists..." AFAIK this is pretty typical for men in the US but I guess I could be wrong, I tend to avoid the east coast and the south (no offense to anyone)

Even in prison, where the population consists of those society has decided are the lowest of the low, rapists are still considered the bottom of the barrel.

I don't see your question as being any different than me asking why women don't get together and decide it's not OK to kill their kids. Women kill their children at a rate that is far higher than men, yet it's not seen as acceptable to label infanticide as something women need to get together to stop doing. EDIT TO ADD: Wanted to clarify I'm NOT talking about abortion, I'm talking about women killing their already born children. I read my post and I just wanted to make sure that was clear.

Maybe what you see as passive acceptance is merely men sick and tried of being treated like like rapists because they have a penis.

a reply to: James1982

I'm an atheist progressive and I think the OP has fallen for some ultra radical feminist stuff. Might even be playing into her own steriotype by expecting the men of the world to SAVE the women of the world.... Since obviously they can't protect them selves from being raped... They need a man to do it. ( that's sarcasm) :p

I'm disgusted and offended with the title and the opening post of this thread. Seriously, Onehuman, how dare you?