China summons US envoy over cyberspying charges

originally posted by: DietJoke
a reply to: mikegrouchy

a reply to: ThePublicEnemyNo1

Those stores that sell that junk in America are American and the customers who buy that junk are also Americans.

The problem resides within the USA!

All of the pictures in the post of mine
linked in the quote above
were taken IN China, and are FROM China.


Mike Grouchy

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You're ranting. Read my post again and cut back on the vitriol.

a reply to: mikegrouchy


To China I say;
don't be upset, the master will always see the apprentice as a child
and you have made great progress. If these last few steps seem hard,
just remember that these are the last few steps.

Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: ImaFungi
Oh yea that hurts them soooo much, they are probably soooo embarrassed omg, we really got them good didnt we. Like an all out bombing of embarrassment on them, what suckers! Even if America doesnt get the justice it deserves in this despicable act of terror, at least America can rest well knowing how embarrassed the Chinese must be. I bet they are like, so embarrassed.

Please don't get hysterical.

There is no need to over react,
or to exaggerate the situation in this way.


Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: mikegrouchy
[
Sure, why not.
Get them some million dollar lawyers,
and win the case in open court in America.
I would be a major coup for China.

Why should they?

China are a sovereign nation with no extradition treaty to the USA.

Not everyone recognizes the USA right to enforce its laws world wide.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: mikegrouchy

[

Sure, why not.

Get them some million dollar lawyers,

and win the case in open court in America.

I would be a major coup for China.

Why should they?



China are a sovereign nation with no extradition treaty to the USA.



Not everyone recognizes the USA right to enforce its laws world wide.

Every nation in the world, including China, has laws against this. It's not some wacko American law no one else has.

originally posted by: mikegrouchy
Sure, why not.
Get them some million dollar lawyers,
and win the case in open court in America.
I would be a major coup for China.

originally posted by: crazyewok


Why should they?

China are a sovereign nation with no extradition treaty to the USA.

Not everyone recognizes the USA right to enforce its laws world wide.

Because it is the clearest path to a clean resounding victory for China.

Using Americas' own open justice system against itself.

Exonerated within Americas' own legal system.

It would be a milestone both in the
history of the world, and for the
future of all human kind.


Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: Thorneblood
a reply to: OccamsRazor04



You're ranting. Read my post again and cut back on the vitriol.

Translation: You know I am right and so want to use some nice logical fallacies to not answer.

What was the rant? What was the vitriol? You just don't like the fact I called you out and you can't back up what you said.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

Every nation in the world, including China, has laws against this. It's not some wacko American law no one else has.

Since when did laws, national or international, ever stop the US Government and it's many agencies from doing anything nefarious, both at home and from within other sovereign nations?

See, they protest at every opportunity and get the bought and paid for MSM shills to paint them as the victim (how very Israeli), but do the same, to an even greater extent, than anyone else on the planet.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

My question was entirely subjective in nature, as it said, WHEN do you think the US will do this, and will it be the will of another US corporation crushing its competitor?

If you think the US or operatives under the employ of the US wouldnt do this period then you're just naive. Everyone can be bought and the analysts at the NSA are not above reproach so I fail to see why you so vehemently defend the position you have taken.

a reply to: Thorneblood

The problem is not it was done with a precise target, but the sheer scope of operations. The US doesn't do that. If they ever do I would consider it an act of war.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

Every nation in the world, including China, has laws against this. It's not some wacko American law no one else has.

O of course.

But if it state sanctioned though its not illegal in that state.


Its illegal in the USA and UK to bug your computer and download all you personal communications, NSA still does it as its state sanctioned.

At the end of the day the law us just letters written down on bits of paper and its interpretation is as the whimes of government in charge.

As pointed out by the source article ...

Despite the pointed language, damage to U.S.-Chinese relations is likely to be limited, with little change in trade or military links, because Beijing realizes the indictment of the five officers is symbolic, said Shen Dingli, a director of the Center for American Studies at Shanghai's Fudan University. He has close ties to China's foreign policy establishment.

Beijing is unlikely to engage in tit-for-tat retaliation such as issuing its own indictments of American soldiers and probably will go ahead with plans to take part in U.S.-hosted naval exercises next month, Shen said. He said cybersecurity cooperation is likely to be suspended indefinitely, but that should have little impact because the joint group achieved little in its three meetings.

Nothing will come of this ... its purely for show!

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04



Every nation in the world, including China, has laws against this. It's not some wacko American law no one else has.

O of course.



But if it state sanctioned though its not illegal in that state.





Its illegal in the USA and UK to bug your computer and download all you personal communications, NSA still does it as its state sanctioned.



At the end of the day the law us just letters written down on bits of paper and its interpretation is as the whimes of government in charge.

Yes no actual jail time will ever be given. This is a message, that's all. My point was this is something China recognizes as "unlawful".

originally posted by: mikegrouchy
Because it is the clearest path to a clean resounding victory for China.

Why would it?

Better victory is keeping the suspects in China and showing the world that USA law is not intentional law and its jurisdiction ends at China borders.

Giving them up says they accept US law as there law.

At best they could try them themselves showing they are against hacking but they are taking action as there own sovereign nations.

originally posted by: mikegrouchy
Using Americas' own open justice system against itself.

1) US justice system now days is far from fair
2) American courts will eat a foreigner alive
3) Why should china care as they have there own courts

originally posted by: mikegrouchy
Exonerated within Americas' own legal system.

We both know that would never happen.

Look at the case of the Howes
The action committed were done on UK solid where there actions were not illegal yet they still got extradited to the USA and faced a Kangaroo court that found Bryan guilty and he is now serving 5 years in one of you brutal prisons, for legal action done in the UK.

Now incidents like that are hardly isolated in the good old US of A.

Now these hackers are guilty but even if not they would not get a fair trial.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
[
Yes no actual jail time will ever be given. This is a message, that's all. My point was this is something China recognizes as "unlawful".

What message?

Only message Im getting is the USA is impotent and can only whine.

A REAL message would be to use that big shinny NSA of yours and show the world it can do more than invade personal spying, hack allied phone and do domestic spying. Show the world the NSA is actually good for something!

originally posted by: crazyewok
1) US justice system now days is far from fair
2) American courts will eat a foreigner alive
3) Why should china care as they have there own courts

So we are down to a question of venue.

Not as far apart as I thought we were.


Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: mikegrouchy
[
Sure, why not.
Get them some million dollar lawyers,
and win the case in open court in America.
I would be a major coup for China.

Why should they?

China are a sovereign nation with no extradition treaty to the USA.

Not everyone recognizes the USA right to enforce its laws world wide.

You brought up a great point indeed and to many I'm going to sound like a stark raving lunatic...but think about this. First of all, the rest of the world does recognize US/International law...including stealing and hacking.

Why should they respect our laws? Well, they should because, if they don't they really do have a lot to loose. For one, supposedly, they've been caught red handed (maybe true maybe not...but if it is true with evidence...oh boy). Oh, now you may ask about our debt to them. What debt? The fake monopoly money we printed and sold them...you know the paper with the eye on it? That? Oh please! They can keep it pushing swearing..."They owe us...the Americans owe us!" Who's gonna care? Putin? Really, We'll take that guy out without ever leaving our doorstep. I do however, have to admit likewise, the Russians can do the same. Just depends on who plays chicken the best. I'm not a huge Obama fan (I did vote for him but I feel betrayed) but he will handle his business with all means necessary...in real time, yes he will. I think we all know that, I believe that. Now what....where do we go from here when the Big Bad Bear is out of the way or not?

Both nations, China and the US have a lot to loose. However, not nearly as much as China if we decide not to pay them more monopoly money...lmao! If we don't pay up who's gonna do something about it...China...Russia? Please! This ain't nothing new. China's been caught with their hands in the cookie jar over and over. Please don't underestimate the setup practices of the US. We've been viewing it for at least 13 years (I'm being nice here). They've already been had. Do you know what the US did to Nigeria when gold mattered? No...well, go search that piece of history. We tricked them out of trillions! We're holding everyone that matters money. No one is going to jeopardize that savings and security for China...they're not worth it.

I'm not undermining nor underestimating the Chinese, but seriously...think about who has the most to loose here. Either I'm naive and maybe a tad bit stupid....or, we could hold our cash/goods (which is a lot), the rest of the worlds gold and property, weapons, security, etc., etc., and say screw them if they want to have a hissie fit. Then what? What? Who's gonna flinch first? We won't...we never flinch. Look back at history. Show me a flinch move besides the Civil War and that was internal. That's truly the worst war in US History. People say it'll happen again...BS...never ever again, a civil war will never ever happen again (I don't care how much you hate your neighbor). But let one of these foreign idiots step out of line for "real" and see what happens. Nothing...that's what. Just watch...because nobody will step out of line...because nobody wants to loose. Everyone is uncertain....uncertainty, the real reason nothing will ever crack off. It's all huff and bluff. Should we continue to be vigilant...yes...but nothings going down. Not in our lifetime anyway.

There's always two sides to every solution if not more. I'm no bully and I won't be bullied...that's "our" general sentiment (if I'm using that word properly) as a nation...even you as an American (though some of you act like whimps). By the way, I'm half Russian (not a broke Russian matriarch)....doesn't make me anyone special, but I do understand bully tactics and if there's ever a possible time to flex, China is currently in target IMO, but so are we as is Russia.

I could be wrong...but who knows until we execute a no pay...get the hell out tactic...get lost even! What are they gonna do...come over here manpower strong with Russia...lmao? Never, ever going to happen...ever. Go ahead and try it...they'll get gunned down. For every Chinese on US soil, there will be at least 6 bullets waiting. At least 3 bullet's gonna hit. Casualties of making a stand are unfortunate...but I don't care and do you? How many of them is it...they'll always be outgunned...maybe not out manned, but surely outgunned. You know it, the rest of us do and so do they.

Now say you, respectfully

ETA
I kind of got into rambling. I apologize however, stop BS'ing yourself. This is a farce created by both parties. It's just simply ridiculous. What we need to be doing is looking for that dam missing airplane!

originally posted by: mikegrouchy

originally posted by: crazyewok
1) US justice system now days is far from fair
2) American courts will eat a foreigner alive
3) Why should china care as they have there own courts

So we are down to a question of venue.

Not as far apart as I thought we were.

Mike Grouchy

Ideally yes the Chinese would arrest, try and punish them themselves .

It wont happen.

But the USA really should use that NSA of yours.

Two more articles covering this story ... check them for other angles of inquiry ok!

Chinese hacking: US calls out '21st Century burglary' [BBC]

China confronts U.S. envoy over cyber-spying accusations, [REUTERS]

I hope this helps!

originally posted by: ThePublicEnemyNo1
Show me a flinch move:

War of 1812, Vietnam and likely Afghanistan come to mind.

No offense.