Spiritual Reorientation 6: We Are All Prophets

a reply to: AfterInfinity

And that is fair. But adjectives are still labels. Any word is a label, actually.

Not necessarily. Adjectives describe the things we label.

a reply to: EviLCHiMP

I respect your beliefs and I mean no disrespect to you personally, I just see that we are having a philosophical debate about our minds perceptions.

And I yours. We cannot be personally disrespected by someone who does not know us personally. Perhaps we should pretend we're sitting around a table drinking beers.

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: AfterInfinity

And that is fair. But adjectives are still labels. Any word is a label, actually.

Not necessarily. Adjectives describe the things we label.

If we keep this up we'll form a googalplex out of attempting to unlabel labels. LOL you guys are fun to debate with

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: EviLCHiMP

I respect your beliefs and I mean no disrespect to you personally, I just see that we are having a philosophical debate about our minds perceptions.

And I yours. We cannot be personally disrespected by someone who does not know us personally. Perhaps we should pretend we're sitting around a table drinking beers.

Agreed! I'll take a Ballast Point Sculpin Ale please

a reply to: Serdgiam

Labels really are a funny thing.

I liken them to a function of assembly line production. Products come off the line and we affix them with their particular labels. But can we change the label countless times without changing the product? Only for marketing purposes.

The human remains the same despite the labels, yet they come to believe it is the label that defines them and not the product.

a reply to: Aphorism

But can we change the label countless times without changing the product?

Excuse me for interrupting this brilliant conversation.

I can, in one day, wear many 'labels' - daughter, sister, friend, wife, mother, cousin, aunt, employee, gardener, housekeeper, animal caretaker, cook, laundress, scullery maid, purchaser, reader, writer, explorer, thinker, spiritualist, and others. ALL = me.

Your world seems very narrow and dark, to me. But that is a product of when you apply the label 'philosopher' to yourself and act out from that level in your words on the computer.

a reply to: Aphorism
Gotta love words! and you use them very well, this is all so true!

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I can, in one day, wear many 'labels' - daughter, sister, friend, wife, mother, cousin, aunt, employee, gardener, housekeeper, animal caretaker, cook, laundress, scullery maid, purchaser, reader, thinker, spiritualist.
Your world seems very narrow and dark, to me.

We can and we do. Definitely. But though the labels change and we can wear a variety of them, what of you changes fundamentally?

It is my belief that before we wear so many labels, we should do best to understand the one that matters most, rather than bury it beneath a laundry-list of other names.

Your world seems false to me and misguided.

a reply to: Aphorism

check my edit. I'm one of the most authentic, genuine people you will EVER come across, in person or on the 'computer.'
Do you know what it means to be authentic and genuine?
Regardless of which hat you are wearing at any given moment?

I wonder.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

check my edit. I'm one of the most authentic, genuine people you will EVER come across, in person or on the 'computer.'
Do you know what it means to be authentic and genuine?
Regardless of which hat you are wearing at any given moment?

I wonder.

I can only take your word for it. But we can claim many things about ourselves until the cows come home, and people often do. It will be yourself and your actions, and not your labels, that confirms it in the hearts of others.

a reply to: Aphorism

Yep!
And I've had very positive feedback, and have it in writing, which if you were ever in a position to wonder what impact or influence I've had on others, would be irrefutable evidence of it. But of course I'd expect you to "label" it inane hearsay and opinion based on nothing but irrelevant interactions amongst people.

No worries, I won't be sending you copies of my records, because I don't care what you think of me; just as you don't care about anyone else who spends their time, thoughts, and energy attempting to converse with you. We're just nothings on a computer screen.

Not nearly as 'special' as you fancy yourself to be.

a reply to: Aphorism

Yeah, it just seems to be a basic part of the system, perhaps we could even label "labels" to be tools.

Somehow though, unlike many tools, they have the power to start defining reality if that is the path that is chosen. I find it absolutely fascinating.

Most people even limit their thoughts to these labels, when they can be so much more. Perhaps it will change a couple of generations after we evolve something like mass telepathy. A mechanical analogue would probably serve the same end.

Maybe it even comes down to math. Our most "accurate" label we have! We come up with it to label patterns in the universe, and yet now, we have started to explore our labeled equations more than trying to approach it in new ways. I think when these things start becoming more and more complicated, we are simply delving further into the near-infinite depths of the tool itself, rather than what it represents.

Perhaps even something like a return to simplicity would, in many ways, serve to create a time where labels simply allow reality to be more understandable and explorable to our limited functions, rather than define what "It" really is.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Yep!
And I've had very positive feedback, and have it in writing, which if you were ever in a position to wonder what impact or influence I've had on others, would be irrefutable evidence of it. But of course I'd expect you to "label" it inane hearsay and opinion based on nothing but irrelevant interactions amongst people.

No worries, I won't be sending you copies of my records, because I don't care what you think of me; just as you don't care about anyone else who spends their time, thoughts, and energy attempting to converse with you. We're just nothings on a computer screen.

Not nearly as 'special' as you fancy yourself to be.

I don't think anything of you really. I don't know you. All I know is that I like your writing and that you are as bright as anyone here, and that perhaps you do not like what I write, which is quite apparent. The rest I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

I don't fancy myself as special. I fancy us all as equals—one label to define us all.

a reply to: Aphorism

perhaps you do not like what I write, which is quite apparent. The rest I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Well, thank you, that's generous.

As for 'liking' your writing - the truth - the authentic, genuine truth - is that I find it confused and ambiguous.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Somehow though, unlike many tools, they have the power to start defining reality if that is the path that is chosen. I find it absolutely fascinating.

Most people even limit their thoughts to these labels, when they can be so much more. Perhaps it will change a couple of generations after we evolve something like mass telepathy. A mechanical analogue would probably serve the same end.

Maybe it even comes down to math. Our most "accurate" label we have! We come up with it to label patterns in the universe, and yet now, we have started to explore our labeled equations more than trying to approach it in new ways. I think when these things start becoming more and more complicated, we are simply delving further into the near-infinite depths of the tool itself, rather than what it represents.

Perhaps even something like a return to simplicity would, in many ways, serve to create a time where labels simply allow reality to be more understandable and explorable to our limited functions, rather than define what "It" really is.

Absolutely. A believe a de-mystification of our concept "human" might be worthwhile, and return us to a less ideological way of seeing each other. By labelling ourselves we wish to project an idea in the minds of others, and perhaps even ourselves. As a starting point, if we see each other not as atheists, jews, americans, westerners, europeans, etc. etc. etc., but as humans first, our labels might arise naturally out of this soil, and value will be given at least that far. Who knows, maybe there is even a more fundamental label we could use before the concept "human" that has yet to be articulated.

a reply to: Aphorism

I don't think anything of you really. I don't know you.

But see, you could, if you truly wanted to.
The written word is very powerful. Especially when articulated by an authentic person who makes an effort to get their point(s) across.

If you decide not to get to know me, because I'm (from your perspective) only some vague, faceless, nameless typist on the internet, well then - no use trying. It appears to be difficult to break through to actual human interaction with you.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Well, thank you, that's generous.

As for 'liking' your writing - the truth - the authentic, genuine truth - is that I find it confused and ambiguous.

I wouldn't ask for anything more than the truth. As long as you find it, that works for me.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

But see, you could, if you truly wanted to.
The written word is very powerful. Especially when articulated by an authentic person who makes an effort to get their point(s) across.

If you decide not to get to know me, because I'm (from your perspective) only some vague, faceless, nameless typist on the internet, well then - no use trying. It appears to be difficult to break through to actual human interaction with you.

I would love to get to know. I know you're a real person somewhere out there, however I can only ever get an abstract version of you from my standpoint. Authenticity is almost impossible if we're not face to face in each other's company. So rather than build up a misconception of you in my mind based on your words, doing you a complete injustice, I work with what I have, and leave the rest up to the imagination.

a reply to: Aphorism

So rather than build up a misconception of you in my mind based on your words, doing you a complete injustice, I work with what I have, and leave the rest up to the imagination.

Likewise. Fair enough.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I do not pretend to speak for Aphorism, however, as a society some labels have been programmed into us as "hot-buttons." There are a myriad of different manifestations of this, but they are ALL used to divide.

I find Aphorism to be downright abrasive in many ways, but frequently, it can end up scratching a dull surface off of an un-explored area. An un-explored area that is now all shiny, because shiny things are awesome. Example:

Who knows, maybe there is even a more fundamental label we could use before the concept "human" that has yet to be articulated.

I had not even thought of that, and how neat of a thing is that to ponder?

I would suggest exploring which of the words Aphorism said that bothered you. *VERY* specifically the individual words.

Was your experience due to the normal societal narrative, or did you truly ponder your action to the words? Was your dislike caused by a reaction or a conscious action?

When we explore the labels that we allow to control us, we can start to weaken the chains that bind us. We are allowed this opportunity any time we see words and they enter our awareness. Something that I feel Aphorism is keenly aware.