Pope shuns bulletproof vehicles for Middle East trip, Vatican says

originally posted by: intrptr
They want their country back. I would call the occupation they have suffered under extreme, wouldn't you?

You can call extremists 'freedom fighters' all you want ... but that doesn't make it true. And shooting the pope doesn't help radical groups in land grabbing or in recruitment. Ask Mehmet Ali Ağca - the muslim extremist who shot Pope John Paul II. The guy ended up in jail and even ended up converting to Catholicism years later. The extremist group that Mehmet Agca subscribed to gained nothing ... except world disdain.

a reply to: intrptr

He's not ONLY going to Israel, though.

Again, I hope the gesture of the three of them traveling together will be taken at face value - a gesture of goodwill and cooperation/respect.

I'd love to know the itinerary - the idea of a mass, which his rabbi and imam friend attend, and a temple service, and a Friday prayer - each participating/attending the other's presiding - would be a potentially world-impact event.

Dang it! Now I want to make them include the Dalai Lama!!!!
Woohoo!!!
World peace microexperiment!

originally posted by: Isolation
I'm interested why you think he wouldn't fit the bill ?

The antichrist will rule the world and be adored. He will have absolute authority, power, and control over all religious, philosophical, economic, and political aspects in the world. The pope can't even get Catholics to follow Catholic laws. And he's not adored by nonCatholics ... and even many Catholics don't listen to him.

a reply to: FlyersFan

And he's not adored by nonCatholics

Well, he's pretty much 'adored' by me, and I'm certainly no Catholic!!

a reply to: FlyersFan

You can call extremists 'freedom fighters' all you want … but that doesn't make it true.

I didn't call them that, you did. I call the people living in the open air prison of "Gaza Strip" well… prisoners.

The world calls them "Palestinians" which is funny because there is no longer any Palestine, just an occupation called "Israel".

Sorry about the off topic. Done with that.

a reply to: CrikeyMagnet

The knee-jerk reaction if someone does take a shot will be to immediately turn to blaming "Radical Islamists".

And certainly not without reason!!!

Why, who are you thinking besides them would do it? Just some random Evangelical Seventh Day Adventist? I suppose it's possible....but I would highly doubt it. Are you suggesting a conspiracy false-flag thing?

Good lord - if it DID happen, I can imagine that "all hell would REALLY break loose"!

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Isolation
I'm interested why you think he wouldn't fit the bill ?

The antichrist will rule the world and be adored. He will have absolute authority, power, and control over all religious, philosophical, economic, and political aspects in the world. The pope can't even get Catholics to follow Catholic laws. And he's not adored by nonCatholics ... and even many Catholics don't listen to him.

I kind of have to disagree with this. Kind of. I know countless atheists, Pagans, etc who have a great deal of respect for him -- myself included. Adoration, absolutely not. Respect, yes, definitely. He's earned it for being open, welcoming & kind.

I find it highly unlikely that he'll ever fit the antichrist bill, but I just wanted to point out that while he's not adored by most, he is certainly respected.

a reply to: intrptr

The world calls them "Palestinians" which is funny because there is no longer any Palestine, just an occupation called "Israel".

Sorry about the off topic. Done with that.

Actually, I don't think you were off topic.
The area he's visiting is part of the conversation. I'm curious now: you are a Palestinian sympathizer...correct?
I'm certainly not a fan of "Israel" or Zionist thinking, but again, I'm an agnostic peacenik....I think all three religions are aberrations of humanity's potential.

What is your stance?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Again, I hope the gesture of the three of them traveling together will be taken at face value - a gesture of goodwill and cooperation/respect.

If he's going there to support the struggle of the Palestinians (which remains to be seen) then I can get behind that. If he just conducts a mass, that can be done anywhere.

Whats the implication, to convert a bunch of Islamic people ? Might backfire on him.

I share your wish for peace though. Before Israel became a state thats the way it was there. Multi lingual, multicultural and peaceful coexistence by all religions. A long time between then / now and much blood has been shed. Will it ever return to the way it was? Not without a lot more blood being shed. The resentment runs too deep on both sides.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

My stance is that the Nation of Palestine's sovereignty was violated after WWII. I stand against wherever that happens in the world. As an American I am sad to say my country is behind a lot of that around the world.

I am not pro Palestinian or anti Semitic. Those are baited traps for people that wish to confuse the issue of international law in regards to international sovereignty of nations.

It that simple. Countries have the God given right to maintain their independence and right to self determination, not be invaded, subjugated and occupied.

.

a reply to: intrptr

Whats the implication, to convert a bunch of Islamic people ? Might backfire on him.

Considering that he's going there with friends who are a Rabbi and an Imam, I hardly think the agenda is to 'convert a bunch of Islamic people'. That doesn't even make sense.

I see it as a gesture of humanitarian solidarity - a signal to put away the hostility, hatred, division, and conflict, and just all help each other out. To survive.

Religion. Gha.

a reply to: intrptr

It that simple. Countries have the God given right to maintain their independence and right to self determination, not be invaded, subjugated and occupied.

Okay, fair enough.
Still, that region was the birthplace of all three Abrahamic religions.

I am going to take this off topic even further and ask you about your ideas about how the holocaust could have been addressed instead of establishing "Israel."

As an example, if the Roma (Gypsies/Travellers) were finally 'given' a place to live in their ancestral homeland, would that be bad? They, like the Jews, have historically been driven out. Just suggesting that as a non-religious analogy.....

So - to keep it somewhat on-topic, what are your ideas/suggestions for 'making up for the Holocaust'? Give Germany to the Jews? Might have been a better strategy. I don't know.
I DO know, however, that the Middle East is a mess. A pressure-cooker bomb constantly ticking. And it needs to be defused. NOW.

Okay, here's the itinerary and objective of the visit:
Papal itinerary for Middle East visit announced

Pope Francis will visit three places, Israel, Jordan, and Palestine. He will meet with the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, and the pair will sign a joint declaration together on May 25.

In Jordan, Pope Francis will celebrate Mass in Amman, and he will meet with King Abdullah and Queen Rania. He will meet Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas the next day. On May 26, he will meet Israeli President, Shimon Peres and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Wear the humble cross of Pope Francis.

During his visit to Jordon, Pope Francis will also meet with the poor and those in need. He will also meet with disabled youth. Finally, he will visit several refugee camps where people displaced by fighting in Syria are living. He is expected to call for peace in the region and for an end to the conflict in Syria.

Pope Francis will also celebrate Mass in Israel at Bethlehem's Manger Square. He has asked that special allowances be made for Christians traveling to the mass. The Latin patriarch Fouad Twal in Jerusalem has asked that Christians be permitted to travel to the Mass from Gaza.

The trip is a major opportunity for Pope Francis to demonstrate strengthening ties within the various rites of the Church as well as to forge stronger bonds between Catholics and our Islamic brothers and sisters.

It will also bring renewed attention to the plight of refugees and the conflict in Syria, which had dragged for over three years and displaced millions of people.

So.... it is about peace and highlighting the conflicts as inappropriate. The Christians in Gaza need special permission to travel to the mass? Sad.

Which prophesy was it that said that the last pope would be shot? IIRC, it was an arrow that hits him, but that may have been what a person would have been shot when then prophesy was made.

The Vatican, briefing reporters on the trip, also confirmed that a rabbi and an Islamic leader will accompany Pope Francis on his trip to the Middle East in a gesture of the importance he attaches to inter-religious dialogue.

He's going to use the trinity of religions to deflect bullets.. or maybe he'll just hide behind the Muslim guy.

I think extremists on both sides would like to see another killing crusade. Quite lately the christian MSM seems to be trying to motivate moderate christians by pushing muslim acts and atrocities into the news. Now take the pope. Christ knew he was to be crucified yet offered himself up to the authorities. Maybe the pope is of the same belief that offering himself to be killed would motivate moderate christians to start a crusade. When bringing it down to the basic evil level if there was an open warfare crusade(christains against muslims) muslims would be wiped off the face of the earth. Not detracting that the muslims would fight bravely but the weaponry available to the christian powers would decide their fate. My earnest thoughts are that I hope that no twisted minds are thinking along those lines.

originally posted by: Nyiah
That takes serious balls to do as such a high profile person in such a violent area. I have to give him props just for the massive amount of trust he's got for the locals, not many people would dare to go without an armored vehicle/bullet proofing. IMO, it's a huge gamble and he's acutely aware of it. If he can visit in such a vulnerable manner and do so unscathed, then there may in fact be some hope for the ME. Maybe.

From my point of view it only takes serious balls if you are afraid of the body dying. If he have had some spiritual experiences knowing about the afterlife from personal experience then he will probably not see death as such a disaster that people without personal knowledge will.

So far this soul by the fruits seem to really be one of gods own. . Hope he continues on that path.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

What he's said that makes me nervous was the 'redistribution of wealth' stuff ....
The spiritual stuff has been awesome though.

Jesus was pretty clear about that rich man / eye of needle story. I think the Pope is as close to a "traditional teachings disciple" as we've seen in a long time. I like how he's addressing the disease of greed whether in the Vatican or North America where she's really ripe with greedy fat cat billionaires.

Well I hope those three make it home safe and sound. I have faith they will be untouched. Fear not.

originally posted by: FlyersFan



I dunno' why you'd be thinking that. Pope Francis doesn't fit for the Anti-Christ.

Why not? I only ask because you seem to have it figured out.