I've lost all respect for the term Racist

originally posted by: Battleline
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Like someone said earlier the term racist is now being used when the left is losing a debate or anyone does not agree with them because the lie's they us to debate are failing. [sic]

Does anyone think the U.S. can take another 4 or 8 years of this Marxist race baiting insanity ?

I kind of suspect this is an example of what the OP could be talking about in a round about way? (OP can correct me if they like)

Conversations like this turn into identity politics incredibly fast. You can publish one opinion online and get the rest of them neatly written out for you by ten other posters.

Against gay marriage? You're clearly a middle aged sexist Christian who votes right wing fiscal pro-life conservative and promotes distinct gender roles and a free market economy which takes advantage of the poor and down trodden.

For gay marriage? Your philosophy is clearly informed by Marxism with a clear socialist agenda to push morality into a grey area where all is accepted and all things are equal except for the white Christian norm which must be destroyed. P.S Why don't you get in more fights with Muslims?

I wish I could say it doesn't happen often on ATS, but there are a handful of topics you just can't discuss without someone asking if you're a feminist libertarian atheist homosexual transsexual lesbian monkey or a facist white Christian, sandwich requesting, 1% stomping, evolutionary psychology endorsing parrot creature from the black abyss.

I'm editing this post to tell everyone I'm a racist. There are some people who are loud, some who seem too secretive and polite, others who seem aloof so I might avoid them. Some of these traits seem more prevalent in certain groups than others. I suppose that makes me a racist. Well whoop-de-do.
It doesn't mean I won't treat everyone the same because I do, the real difference is if you treat someone differently based on race, religion or sexual orientation not on what you might think of them. What they are trying to do is enforce a mindset on everyone using social ostracism as a club over the head.

Not only is term extremely overused but is essentially useless as a descriptor. Let's face it, everyone has some elements of "racism" in them (according to the modern definition). Preferring to be with people of your own race makes one a racist now even though it's generally true of everyone. Stereotypes are the "in thing" to bash but like myths are usually have some basis in reality.

I love diversity, the world would be a boring place without our differences. We can learn to respect and appreciate those differences but instead of teaching and sharing racial differences are being used to separate and create division among people. Instead of being upset with the politicians who are making a wreck of our Nation the media is trying it's best to make the people hate each other.

Racism and the term racist are nothing but political tools of convenience. A left hand gesture to hide the trick being done by the right hand.

We have far more in common as people than differences. The undercurrent of racial tension today only proves the power of the media to sway our convictions. 10 years ago one would have thought America was pretty much beyond it's truly racist past. We're being pushed and we need to start pushing back instead of accepting whatever agenda it is they're trying to force down our throats.

The true racists are the politicians and the heads of the media corporations who will do anything to raise their ratings.

originally posted by: JuniorDisco
a reply to: Krazysh0t

There is no response to that comment that says that. There's no response to that commenter full stop. Why would you invent it when you specifically said examples are easy to find?

There are quite a few people who jump on the thread calling jews "moon worshippers", accusing them of getting "special treatment", of being "arrogant".

I'd say the poll might, from that empirical sample, be right. But that aside, this is a discussion about anti-semitism so it's hardly strange to hear the term. What there is not is an example of a commenter being silenced by accusations of anti-semitism. can you find another example where one is, from the many that are apparently out there?

That's what I'm talking about, with the constant accusations of antisemitism the conversation quickly devolved into antisemitic rants and crap like that. It was very wisely pointed out that the poll is likely skewed early in the thread, the responses to that were that these people saying so are antisemitic, eventually they stopped posting and the actual anti-semites rolled in.

Maybe the example isn't exactly what you are looking for, but it is certainly an example of an improper use of the race card being played. I would like to find a specific example of what you want, but it seems that those threads tend to get 404'd (which is a shame if a good discussion was occurring up until then) and coupled with the ATS search function I'm not having a lot of luck in that department. Though these events usually occur in very politically heated debates like religion, abortion, the president (any thing he does really), etc.

a reply to: angelchemuel

Actually that is not true. There was a study done recently that showed kids are naturally born racist. It is a survival instinct and built into our DNA to want to be a part of a tribe that is most like ourselves. This means naturally wanting to be around people of your own color. It doesn't mean that person is bad or doesn't like people of the other color, they just generally feel more comfortable around them is all.

So everyone is racist whether they like it or not.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

How can someone be racist without knowing it? If I don't like black people or jews or some other random label, I'm pretty sure that is a conscious decision that I have made or been taught. This is nonsense.

It's not nonsense...sadly it is the reality.

People claim they aren't racists...but are radically against illegal immigration....but for some reason only on the southern border. They say they aren't racist, but wouldn't want their daughter to marry a black man. They don't see color...but they hope that black family that just looked at the house next to them doesn't buy it. They aren't racist...but only English should be spoken in America. They aren't racists, but jokes about minorities are hilarious to them. They can't comprehend why affirmative action is needed. They don't understand how our long history of systematic discrimination has contributed to an unlevel playing field for minorities.

Oh, and my very favorite...those that call blacks the "N" word...because they say it to them selves.

Either you live in a magical fantasy land, or you in fact know plenty of racists...you just don't recognize it as being racists. The reason they don't think they are "racists" is because they don't see their views as abnormal or false...they aren't racists because they believe their faulty racists views are just simple facts.

The fact that you can't comprehend how people can be racists without knowing it speaks volumes.

I know I'm not a racist

How do you know that? How do I know that? I am only making my judgment on the words you have written in this post...and I just call it like I see it.

Why do you seem so focused on others calling out racists if it doesn't effect you at all?

Racism was once used when the sole influence was race related. Today it encompasses any form of bias a person might have. The problem is we all have biases no matter what, but a person of color with the same bias as a white person is labeled differently with the white person being racist and the person of color speaking out from oppression.

The shock of being called a racist threw me, I didn't see it coming, it never crossed my mind that having a different stand philosophically and politically than Obamas would label me as such.

It isn't like America didn't have black politicians, like we didn't have black friends and family members, like we haven't been listening to black musicians and watching black actors for years.

I just hope and pray that we can recover from what they have done to us.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

During a family gathering over the "holiday" season, my sister said, "If you don't like Obama, you're a racist." To which I replied, "I don't like Obama, does that make me a racist?" "You're a racist." She replied.

Needless to say, she is white, liberal, and she completely believes what she was saying... even though we are only one year apart, grew up together in a very close family, and I have interracial children.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

That's what I'm talking about, with the constant accusations of antisemitism the conversation quickly devolved into antisemitic rants and crap like that. It was very wisely pointed out that the poll is likely skewed early in the thread, the responses to that were that these people saying so are antisemitic

Could you link to the post that accuses OpinionatedB or his/her post of anti-semitism? I can't see it.

eventually they stopped posting and the actual anti-semites rolled in.

The anti-semites rolled in straight away. The post after OpinionatedB's is the one that calls Jews "moon worshippers". The other attacks were a handful of posts later. By that point nobody had called OpinionatedB or his post anti-semitic. And they didn't do so unless it was much later.

Maybe the example isn't exactly what you are looking for, but it is certainly an example of an improper use of the race card being played.

Except that I can't see where exactly it is played. Sorry.

I would like to find a specific example of what you want, but it seems that those threads tend to get 404'd (which is a shame if a good discussion was occurring up until then) and coupled with the ATS search function I'm not having a lot of luck in that department. Though these events usually occur in very politically heated debates like religion, abortion, the president (any thing he does really), etc.

Okay, so examples are hard to find.

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: Krazysh0t

How can someone be racist without knowing it? If I don't like black people or jews or some other random label, I'm pretty sure that is a conscious decision that I have made or been taught. This is nonsense.

It's not nonsense...sadly it is the reality.

People claim they aren't racists...but are radically against illegal immigration....but for some reason only on the southern border. They say they aren't racist, but wouldn't want their daughter to marry a black man. They don't see color...but they hope that black family that just looked at the house next to them doesn't buy it. They aren't racist...but only English should be spoken in America. They aren't racists, but jokes about minorities are hilarious to them. They can't comprehend why affirmative action is needed. They don't understand how our long history of systematic discrimination has contributed to an unlevel playing field for minorities.

Let's break that down one by one shall we:

"but are radically against illegal immigration....but for some reason only on the southern border."
I've never seen this. Every person I've ever spoken to about illegal immigration would have no problem deporting an illegal immigrant from England or France if he were to be caught.

"but wouldn't want their daughter to marry a black man."
This is either denial or the person lying to you about their opinions on black people. In either case the person is aware they are racist, they just aren't as vocal as you'd like them to be about it.

"but they hope that black family that just looked at the house next to them doesn't buy it."
See above.

"but only English should be spoken in America"
This has NOTHING to do with race. Every country has a native language and English is America's. Most other countries don't require bilingual ability to live in it, I can see why other people may be frustrated by this as more and more foreign speaking people migrate. Especially since this only started to become a problem as our illegal immigration problem picked up. Immigrants beforehand would learn English or learn how to cope with it. That being said, this is an issue I don't care about, but like I said, I can see where they are coming from.

"but jokes about minorities are hilarious to them."
What's wrong with stereotypes? Are you trying to deny that they exist and that they may be funny at times? How about you explain why it is ok for minorities to joke about white people with impunity while white people who do the opposite are automatically racist?

"They can't comprehend why affirmative action is needed."
You should study Libertarian philosophy it is very anti-affirmative action, with none of the reasons being race related.

"They don't understand how our long history of systematic discrimination has contributed to an unlevel playing field for minorities"
Blanket statement about an undefined group of people. How do you know there aren't better solutions than AA to promote a more diverse workplace/school environment? Yet because it's drilled into us constantly that AA is necessary, no one wants to explore other options, meanwhile unqualified individuals keep getting put in positions over qualified people all because of their skin color (hey look at that, AA results in racism against white people)

Oh, and my very favorite...those that call blacks the "N" word...because they say it to them selves.

It's just a word. By continually saying that it is THEIR word and only THEY can use it because of its history, black people are giving more power to the word. Using a word while not understanding its significance doesn't make you a racist.

Also if they want to use it, then they are just going to have to get right with other races using it too. Contrary to what they think, they do not have sole ownership of that word. If they don't like other races calling them that for racist reasons then they should stop using it between themselves. It's as simple as that.

Either you live in a magical fantasy land, or you in fact know plenty of racists...you just don't recognize it as being racists. The reason they don't think they are "racists" is because they don't see their views as abnormal or false...they aren't racists because they believe their faulty racists views are just simple facts.

I never said I don't know racists. Everyone is racist to a degree. That doesn't mean that they let it rule their world view though. And that is where the distinction needs to be made. What's wrong with disliking someone for any reason? Why is it so taboo to not like someone else anyways? As long as you don't act on that hate or do something that causes them hardship, what does it matter? Some white kid says a dirty joke about black people to his friends. Who is he hurting?

The fact that you can't comprehend how people can be racists without knowing it speaks volumes.

No it doesn't.

How do you know that? How do I know that? I am only making my judgment on the words you have written in this post...and I just call it like I see it.

Because you are employing the EXACT same strategy that I am admonishing. You are calling me racist for pointing out a very real problem with how we label racists. It's nice that you elaborated on your points, but to me, all I see now is someone who views me as a racist (for dumb reasons) and will use that against me when they want to win the argument.

Why do you seem so focused on others calling out racists if it doesn't effect you at all?

Because I get called racist all the time for not liking Obama's policies or because I'm an agnostic and don't like Christianity or because I don't like the state of Israel. None of those are reasons to label someone a racist. Yet here you are, labeling me a racist because I DARED to call out people who cry wolf all the time. How about going back and CAREFULLY rereading the WHOLE op again.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Do you deny that before Obama came on the scene that the cry for racist wasn't so widespread? In order to recognize a problem, one must identify its origins. While racist may have been misused before Obama was elected, it certainly wasn't as widespread in usage as it is now.

You seem to recognize the persecution complex that many Christians have developed. Is it reasonable to say that since 2008, the instances of this have increased dramatically and that it could be because of a misguided belief that the President is a Muslim?

So is the President responsible for that or is the way the far right propaganda has presented the President responsible?

I personally can't remember seeing anything you've said as being bigoted, but I read a lot of posts by others on ATS that express clearly bigoted views. In my opinion, claiming that people are "pulling the race card" ("pulling the victim card") is the same tactic as "pulling the race card." Both are unsound, detestable, scorn-worthy attempts to invalidate an argument based on something other than fact. I believe that where you and I disagree is that I believe the former has become a much larger issue than the latter.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I hear you, and welcome to the club. It's been many years now, every time I hear the term "racist" or one of it's counterparts, I roll my eyes.

Give it a break people, everything is now racist. It's like the boy who cried wolf.

a reply to: theantediluvian

You seem to recognize the persecution complex that many Christians have developed. Is it reasonable to say that since 2008, the instances of this have increased dramatically and that it could be because of a misguided belief that the President is a Muslim?

NO, long before Obama things were changing, there has been a concerted effort to attack Christianity going on for years,

From a personal observation of years spent on this forum and others,

I am not a good anything, and love different cultures and religious thought, I am not mainstream Christian in any sense of the word, but I know many and they are wonderful people, and I feel like defending them.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Starred. Couldn't agree more. Racist and like terms are thrown around so cavalierly as to be rendered meaningless. I see and understand exactly what you mean, ie being anti-israel/anti-zionism isn't the same thing as being anti-jewish/anti-semitic.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
The shock of being called a racist threw me, I didn't see it coming, it never crossed my mind that having a different stand philosophically and politically than Obamas would label me as such.

It isn't like America didn't have black politicians, like we didn't have black friends and family members, like we haven't been listening to black musicians and watching black actors for years.

I just hope and pray that we can recover from what they have done to us.

Who exactly called you a racist for disagreeing with Obama? Can you cite a specific example of this (on ATS preferably) or do you just feel this way in general?

I think you're using a really really poor measure of racial equality. I don't think you'll need to pray too much because the next President will almost certainly be white and propaganda will return to pre-Obama levels of racial polarization.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Do you deny that before Obama came on the scene that the cry for racist wasn't so widespread? In order to recognize a problem, one must identify its origins. While racist may have been misused before Obama was elected, it certainly wasn't as widespread in usage as it is now.

You seem to recognize the persecution complex that many Christians have developed. Is it reasonable to say that since 2008, the instances of this have increased dramatically and that it could be because of a misguided belief that the President is a Muslim?

So is the President responsible for that or is the way the far right propaganda has presented the President responsible?

I find it hard to recognize what started first, liberals playing the race card for every little slight against Obama or the conservatives calling him a Muslim like that was a bad thing. Both things are wrong. Luckily one of them has died off though, while the other continues to rear its head time and again. I do recognize that the accusations of the race card really started in 2008 and hey MAYBE there was some credence to them originally, but now it's become a huge joke.

I personally can't remember seeing anything you've said as being bigoted, but I read a lot of posts by others on ATS that express clearly bigoted views. In my opinion, claiming that people are "pulling the race card" ("pulling the victim card") is the same tactic as "pulling the race card." Both are unsound, detestable, scorn-worthy attempts to invalidate an argument based on something other than fact. I believe that where you and I disagree is that I believe the former has become a much larger issue than the latter.

I'm not sure that we differ there either, the victim card is pretty much akin to the race card (hence me pointing out the Christian persecution complex in the OP). In actuality I detest ALL fallacies and try to limit my use of them to as much as possible. This may require me to admit I'm wrong at times (I have no problem with that) or that I can't craft an argument that I wanted to craft, but in the end I know I am putting forth a good argument in my favor backed up only with facts and without hyperbole. But this thread is just about the ad hominem race card attack.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I have straight up been called a racist on this forum by members.

I see you joined in 2013, how long have you been reading?

You must have missed a lot.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Christian persecution complex?

Krazy if the same things that are said about Christians on ATS, were said about African Americans we would get closed down.

It gets old.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I've never seen this. Every person I've ever spoken to about illegal immigration would have no problem deporting an illegal immigrant from England or France if he were to be caught.

You have "never" seen this? Or maybe, you just don't notice it? You are kind of proving my point.

Every country has a native language and English is America's.

English is NOT America's "native" language. The fact that you think this is a fact, just further proves that you don't even realize what your own opinions say about you.

And now we get to your true feelings:

What's wrong with stereotypes?
...
hey look at that, AA results in racism against white people
...
It's just a word.
...
Also if they want to use it, then they are just going to have to get right with other races using it too.
...
What's wrong with disliking someone for any reason?
...
Some white kid says a dirty joke about black people to his friends. Who is he hurting?

Like I said, most racists don't even realize they are racists.

You are calling me racist for pointing out a very real problem with how we label racists.

In fact I have not called you a racists. I equated your argument to the same as Donald Sterlings arguments...trying to deflect and ignore the problem, which is racism, and saying that the REAL problem are people calling out racism.

I do think you have some racists opinions...and I don't think you even realize it. You think it is fine to call black people the "N" word because they do, you think stereotypes are fine, you think racists jokes are funny and don't hurt anyone, you think affirmative action is not needed, you think that whites are discriminated against in this country.

You may say you aren't racists...but the vibe you are putting out there is definitely contrary to that.

What you want is for people to ignore the problem. Ignoring the problem is never a solution...the only people who benefit from the problem being ignored are those causing the problem...so why do you really want the problem of racism to be ignored?

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Christian persecution complex?

Krazy if the same things that are said about Christians on ATS, were said about African Americans we would get closed down.

It gets old.

Yes Christian persecution complex, like when upon discussing Satanists trying to have a mock black mass at Harvard and then a bunch of Christians try to get it shut down, realize their arguments were wrong then cry that they are being persecuted. Or when a bunch of non-Christians want to have references to God removed from government (pledge, money, state buildings, etc) so that government would equally represent all religions by not favoring one over the other, Christians get all offended and say they are being discriminated against. Another example, a non-Christian makes a thread on Jesus not being real, a bunch of Christians enter the thread, cry fowl then proceed to act like they are under attack or something instead of just arguing the points. THAT is Christian persecution complex. It's the idea that if the religion of Christianity is under attack then they as people are also under attack. Their go to response is always, "well what if it were Jews or (insert some other religion) doing this?" Well it never is, is it? It's ALWAYS Christians doing this, so those hypothetical answers don't ever get answered (which lets Christians assume the answer).

I get that not all Christians feel this way, so I'm not labeling all of them here. But the ones who are guilty of this know who they are (or maybe they don't and honestly think they have an argument...) Though, usually its the ones that understand this and therefore don't participate in those threads so it APPEARS like the non-Christians are attacking the Christians when in reality they are just attacking the Christians' argument (like they are supposed to be doing).

I have NEVER seen ANY non-Christian say anything hateful to another person for being a Christian (not to say I haven't seen them say something hateful, but that could just be due to the heat of the argument). Hating Christianity is NOT the same thing as hating Christians, which you seem to be implying is the case.