If You Don't Think Miracles Are Possible.....

originally posted by: danielsil18
a reply to: WarminIndy

It would be like me asking you that maybe you have an idea that Poseidon's house is blue. It wouldn't matter if I told you that it's red or green because you don't believe in it (assuming you don't believe in Poseidon's house).

Poseidon' s house was the sea, so whatever the color the Mediterranean was at the time the Greeks wrote about it, then I would be assuming bluish/green. But that definitely is giving human characteristics and attributes to natural phenomenon.

Supernatural exists in you. Where does imagination and desire arise in you? Does it come from the random thought process in your mind? People imagine all kinds of things, but then to have desire to become something, is that random?

Where does it arise in you? You can't even explain the mysteries of the mind, there is nothing tangible in an imagination. You might see your brain lighting up in an MRI, but those are simply electro-chemical processes that somehow is decoding information. That's all it is doing.

However, you would have to agree that something supernatural is going on for the information getting into your mind somehow. What you see is your brain, not your mind. But your mind is capable of thinking about your brain. That's amazing.

Where does desire arise in you? Neurosurgery also hasn't figured out why Autistic people are locked in parts of their brain, and we don't know their imagination, hope or contemplation about their own minds.

But we have psychic connections that can't be explained either, and I know you will probably dismiss that as well, but you have felt those things, we all have. You get a feeling about something, a hunch, call it whatever you like and you see it happen. That's supernatural. Maybe you say it comes from experiences, but does it?

How about things like thinking about the next song that is played on the radio, and that's the next song? How about thinking of a friend, and that friend calls you while you are thinking of them? How about mothers who suddenly feel their children are in some kind of danger, and find out they are?

These are things that do happen with no explanation as to why. And these are things that neurosurgeons are trying to discover.

Here's a book you might be interested in, Hamilton AJ: The Scalpel and the Soul: Encounters with Surgery, the Supernatural, and the Healing Power of Hope, New York: Tarcher/Penguin Books, 2008 (ISBN 978-1-58542-615-7) written by Professor Allan Hamilton.

a reply to: WarminIndy

We don't know how X occurred, therefore spooky supernatural miracle, therefore God?....

The same things were thought not to long ago whenever the crops fails, the rain fell or the wind blew.

It's literally caveman thinking.

originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: WarminIndy

We don't know how X occurred, therefore spooky supernatural miracle, therefore God?....

The same things were thought not to long ago whenever the crops fails, the rain fell or the wind blew.

It's literally caveman thinking.

Yes, how does X occur?

Apparently you aren't aware of the history of science. That's ok that you didn't know it didn't arise out of atheism, but out of religion.

Tell me, what color is the sky and water?

a reply to: WarminIndy

Supernatural exists in you. Where does imagination and desire arise in you? Does it come from the random thought process in your mind? People imagine all kinds of things, but then to have desire to become something, is that random?

Imagination comes from our brain. There are many hypotheses for why we desire things, it's one of the things we are still trying to learn.

Where does it arise in you? You can't even explain the mysteries of the mind, there is nothing tangible in an imagination. You might see your brain lighting up in an MRI, but those are simply electro-chemical processes that somehow is decoding information. That's all it is doing.

Which is why we say imagination comes from the brain. If a part of the brain wasn't working when we were imagining something then it would be a mystery, but it's not.

But we have psychic connections that can't be explained either, and I know you will probably dismiss that as well, but you have felt those things, we all have. You get a feeling about something, a hunch, call it whatever you like and you see it happen. That's supernatural. Maybe you say it comes from experiences, but does it?

I do dismiss psychic connections because I haven't seen one.

How about things like thinking about the next song that is played on the radio, and that's the next song? How about thinking of a friend, and that friend calls you while you are thinking of them? How about mothers who suddenly feel their children are in some kind of danger, and find out they are?

What about the time you were thinking about the next song and it wasn't? Or the many times you were thinking about friends and they didn't call?

We only remember the times we got things right but forget the times we got them wrong. To me they are coincidences of life, sometimes they happen and sometimes they don't.

These are things that do happen with no explanation as to why. And these are things that neurosurgeons are trying to discover.

It's true that they are trying to discover new things. What they don't do is call it supernatural every time something is not explainable.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Apparently you aren't aware of the history of science. That's ok that you didn't know it didn't arise out of atheism, but out of religion.

Actually it rose from the curiosity of humans to learn about the world.

The Three Laws of Motion were discovered by Newton using science, not religion.

originally posted by: danielsil18
a reply to: WarminIndy

Apparently you aren't aware of the history of science. That's ok that you didn't know it didn't arise out of atheism, but out of religion.

Actually it rose from the curiosity of humans to learn about the world.

The Three Laws of Motion were discovered by Newton using science, not religion.

Yes, out of his belief in God, not science. Science was just used to ask, "why did this apple fall on my head?" when apples have been falling for thousands of years before that one fell on him.

Eureka! I have found it. Wasn't that also the cry from another scientist?

A body in motion tends to stay in motion until it runs out of energy. When a celestial body runs out of energy, to where is that energy transferred?

Newton's laws are valid only in an inertial reference frame.

From the original Latin of Newton's Principia:

“ Lex I: Corpus omne perseverare in statu suo quiescendi vel movendi uniformiter in directum, nisi quatenus a viribus impressis cogitur statum illum mutare. ”
Translated to English, this reads:

“ Law I: Every body persists in its state of being at rest or of moving uniformly straight forward, except insofar as it is compelled to change its state by force impressed

What is the external force? Energy? an object does not propel itself. The apple suffered one flaw, a weak stem. Gravity was the external force. But gravity is not the object. So gravity can be measured and yet gravity is only tangible in the sense that you can only see the effect.

If apples were able to, they could propel themselves in any direction, but the natural order is that they fall because of an external force. Natural, yes. Tangible, no. You must have faith and belief in gravity and the three laws of motion.

I am sure that when you throw a ball, you have some kind of faith that the ball is going to be moved forward because your arm is the transferred energy that propels that ball forward by momentum, which the ball had no power under its own volition, meaning it did not have potential energy at all.

Rockets propel themselves, because of the force of the firing under it, but unless that external force were enacted, the rocket sits by itself. But may I ask, what is the great external force in the universe? What is it that is greater than energy and gravity?

Why does the earth hang in space? The sun? Then what holds the sun in place? Gravity from the galaxy? Then what holds the galaxy in place?

There is a great external force in the universe that is not seen, is not measured, is not tangible and can't be observed to experiment.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Yes, out of his belief in God, not science. Science was just used to ask, "why did this apple fall on my head?" when apples have been falling for thousands of years before that one fell on him.

Out of curiosity. Human's curiosity led us to investigate about the world around us. Without curiosity we wouldnt be asking questions about our world. Belief in deities like zeus or allah doesnt do anything.

A body in motion tends to stay in motion until it runs out of energy. When a celestial body runs out of energy, to where is that energy transferred?

It's not until it runs out of energy, it's until acted upon by another force.

As for the celestial body. Depends on what type of celestial body you are talking about and the event. If you are talking something like a car crash then for a car crash the kinetic energy turns to heat, sound and bending/destroying the car depending on the velocity and mass of the cars.


"What is the external force? Energy? an object does not propel itself."

If a soccer ball is at rest it will remain at rest until someone kicks it, then the external force would be the person. If the wind moves it then the wind is the external force.

But gravity is not the object. So gravity can be measured and yet gravity is only tangible in the sense that you can only see the effect.

We can measure the force of gravity because we can study the effect it has on objects.

If apples were able to, they could propel themselves in any direction, but the natural order is that they fall because of an external force. Natural, yes. Tangible, no. You must have faith and belief in gravity and the three laws of motion.

I dont know what you are trying to say here. But i think you are overusing the word faith. I also dont get how one must have faith to believe in gravity when you can drop a pencil right in front of your nose and it will fall.

I am sure that when you throw a ball, you have some kind of faith that the ball is going to be moved forward because your arm is the transferred energy that propels that ball forward by momentum, which the ball had no power under its own volition, meaning it did not have potential energy at all.

Please stop using the word faith, it got childish. One doesnt require "faith" to know that a ball will go to the direction that you throw it to. It's simple physics. Even toddlers learn that when they play with a ball, no need for "faith", so please stop using that word.

Rockets propel themselves, because of the force of the firing under it, but unless that external force were enacted, the rocket sits by itself. But may I ask, what is the great external force in the universe? What is it that is greater than energy and gravity?

Is there a "great external force" in the universe? If you think so tell me what it is and how you know it exists, (I'm guessing that "god" will have something to do with your answer).

Why does the earth hang in space? The sun? Then what holds the sun in place? Gravity from the galaxy? Then what holds the galaxy in place?

I never imagined that someone would ask me why our planet hangs in space.

Do you really think there is gravity in space apart from the gravity of planets and stars?

There is a great external force in the universe that is not seen, is not measured, is not tangible and can't be observed to experiment.

That force holds the galaxies from falling? sigh...

originally posted by: danielsil18
a reply to: WarminIndy

I am sorry if you find my use of the word faith as offensive and childlike.

Well, then I must say, sobeit. To me my faith, to you your awaiting for something to prove itself.

Why is it offensive to you that I should have faith? What does it matter to you? If faith is nothing, then my having faith is nothing. Then if faith is nothing, and you have nothing, then what's the difference?

a reply to: WarminIndy

I am sorry if you find my use of the word faith as offensive and childlike.

I never said I found it offensive. It was a bit irritating because you were overusing it.

I understand that you have faith, but telling me all the time that I have faith for this and that was a bit irritating. I thought you passed the line when you said I must have faith in gravity.

Why is it offensive to you that I should have faith? What does it matter to you? If faith is nothing, then my having faith is nothing. Then if faith is nothing, and you have nothing, then what's the difference?

I don't find it offensive that you have faith. It also doesn't matter to me because we all have our lives, but I do like to talk about it.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Yes, how does X occur?

The only honest answer is 'I don't know' and not 'God dun did it'

Apparently you aren't aware of the history of science. That's ok that you didn't know it didn't arise out of atheism, but out of religion.

Nobody claimed it was a product of a lack of a belief in your god, and your incorrect that it did rise from the belief in a God. We are curious monkeys, and always have been and the fact that the first few people that were able to conduct and document such investigations were theists should not be a surprise to anyone considering the year they were developed (i.e. everyone at that time was a theist of some type).

What you're attempting to present here is merely a massive argument from ignorance, and is only of any use to those who wish to remain that way. ANd you know what this website's mantra is right?....

Its about how you define a miracle and how willing you are to believe something you didn't see.

A miracle is sunny morning to some.

To me a miracle is the hand of god manipulating this universe for good or a message.
A miracle is influencing our physical laws to do the impossible.

Im more of a "the die is cast" The real miracle is right there.