Using the "L" word with regards to chemtrails.

a reply to: fleabit Is anyone even testing? A friend of mine has paid the lab fees for blood tests, she tested positive for heavy metals. Again, conjecture and heresay, but that's what she's claimed.

originally posted by: The Undertaker
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul The only evidence I can provide is personal observation. Sublimation of contrails from a jet is not what I have observed. What I have observed is a perfectly clear day ruined by a planes douching of the air and the region wide cloud cover that results. Not a contrail, but a chemtrail.

Sorry - but none of that is actual evidence of anything.

I don't doubt you see what you see - but when you say it is not sublimation - how do you know?? What did you measure? and your answer is right there - nothing - you don't know it isn't sublimation at all - you are presuming.

contrails do expand out to be white clouds - they always have - it is physics and the reasons for it are pretty well understood:

Specifically, exhaust soot particles may have been involved in ice crystal formation within the cirrus or formed contrail ice particles within the exhaust plume before being incorporated into the cloud. These observations are roughly consistent with calculations of a cirrus cloud forming in a region of recent exhaust trails (Jensen and Toon, 1997).

Cirrus clouds may also be perturbed by enhanced sulfate aerosol.

It has been observed since the earliest days of contrails - by a French pilot flying recce missions over German lines in 1940 wrote the following:

"The German on the ground knows us by the pearly white scarf which every plane flying at high altitude trails behind like a bridal veil. The disturbance caused by our meteoric flight crystallizes the watery vapor in the atmosphere. We unwind behind us a cirrus of icicles. If the atmospheric conditions are favorable to the formations of clouds, our wake will thicken bit by bit and become an evening cloud over the countryside." -- Flight to Arras, by Antoine de Saint-Exupery. c. 1942 -

Flight to Arras is still available on Amazon - Exuperry was killed in 1943

Flight tracking sites identify these planes as military.

then that would be evidence - why not document it??

but of course even that isn't actually evidence of chemtrails - military aircraft DO make contrails too......

There are so few flights in Southeast AK that these trailing flights stand out as they do not follow usual flight patterns.

Fair enough.......again it's not actually evidence that chemtrails exist tho.....it just means you get to see some unusual flights.

originally posted by: The Undertaker
a reply to: fleabit Is anyone even testing? A friend of mine has paid the lab fees for blood tests, she tested positive for heavy metals. Again, conjecture and heresay, but that's what she's claimed.

Lots of people test positive for heavy metals - a mate of mine did in the 1980's too - of course he was working in a glass factory, so it was "environmental" for him.

I dare say you will have heavy metals in your bloodstream and so will I - hopefully not high levels of course - but they are a pretty normal part of het environment - barium is in vehicle brake pads, strontium is used in old TV screens and to make fireworks read, aluminium is in every can of beer and soft drink.......why blame something happening at 30,000 feet that you haven't tested when there are really obvious sources at ground level??

a reply to: network dude


They have been using chemtrails for decades now trying to change weather patterns...I can't believe there are still people who don't know that...

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul
I stand corrected, I did not know that article or site was satire, thanks.
I still think they are spraying something though for SRM, but it is just my opinion and I am not out to convince anyone or convert others.

a reply to: Iscool
"They" tried changing hurricanes in the 1960's through 1983 with Operation Stormfury, and rain making using cloud seeding happens a lot but that isn't actually changing weather patterns........

so AFAIK the most recent attempt to change weather patterns was 30 or so years ago - is that what you mean by "decades" - or do you have some evidence of something more recent??

People are living longer lives today. But maybe it's a "slow kill" method which might be much harder to detect. Maybe it's nanotechnology with a timer set... maybe in 5-20 years a mystery virus will kill billions suddenly or over a couple months or years. Or maybe humans will suddenly be unable to reproduce and no babies will be born... except to those who have the antidote... That way they don't need to kill anybody and cause mass hysteria to that extent... Who knows how it is targeted? Maybe by certain genes in the dna or certain blood types or bloodlines will no longer have the ability to reproduce. The "spraying" reported by people will have stopped for 5 years or more so people will be looking for recent events to blame.

I don't know if I believe in chemtrails. But I certainly do not accept your logic that people are living longer than ever.

a reply to: trig_grl

did you mean to explain any of het "science" behind any of those??

originally posted by: 3n19m470
People are living longer lives today........ But I certainly do not accept your logic that people are living longer than ever.

Make up your mind!!

US life expectancy

As for "maybe it is a slow kill" - how about "maybe" it is not because "maybe" it doesn't exist?? That seems more likely - since all the so-called evidence that has been put up to date is nonsense.

a reply to: Aloysius the GaulThank you for this information. I am not above admitting that this is very possible. There are however other planes that do seem to be flying near or at about the same altitude that do not emit much of a trail at all. Why one and not the others? A nice time lapse series of photos and flight tracker data would be nice here, I'll see what I can do for that. I'm not currently in SE Alaska so this will not be my own first hand information or pictures.

Did anybody take into account possible ecosystem manipulation? As outlined in "what in the world are they spraying" there are high levels of Aluminium found in places it should not be naturally. The Aluminium was shown to change the PH levels of the soil, which can cause soil infertility for plants and small creatures. Repeated soil poisoning could have long term effect much like the nation-wide fluoride poisoning of our water.

The other argument for spraying might be weather manipulation. With constant spraying, drought and famine could happen. This could prove very lucrative to stock market futures trading and/or perpetuate the climate "crisis".

Now I am not one to deny that we are polluting this planet at an astronomical rate, but we need to look into alternatives to plastics and oil. Combustion engines are ancient and inefficient technologies.

If our world leaders were not controlled by energy companies and actually cared about making a difference, they would form a worldwide panel, much like the Manhattan Project, but instead of death and destruction, they would be a clean energy panel. This panel would have free access to the U.S. patent office and be given executive powers to create machines and energy methods like Nikolai Tessla, Stan Myers, and John Hutchinson.

Before I get too off subject with free energy, it is clear that there are some possibilities in making profit from chemical spraying the public. If there is profit in Fluoridating water and unhealthy food, then why not attack our air too.

originally posted by: oneupShadow
Did anybody take into account possible ecosystem manipulation? As outlined in "what in the world are they spraying" there are high levels of Aluminium found in places it should not be naturally.

no - that wasn't shown in that mockumentary - they failed to establish what a "natural" level of aluminium should be - so their claims that the levels they measured were high cannot be supported.

The Aluminium was shown to change the PH levels of the soil, which can cause soil infertility for plants and small creatures.

And that is another mistake WITWATS made - aluminium does not raise pH at all. Alumium in acidic or basic soils IS a cause for lowered fertility - but the soil is already acidic or basic, and it is the pH that makes eth aluminium toxic, not the aluminium that changes the pH.

This is long established soil science - aluminium toxicity in acidic soils is a massive cost to agriculture worldwide - up to 30-40% of arable land suffers from it

.... Repeated soil poisoning could have long term effect much like the nation-wide fluoride poisoning of our water.

Better dental health??

originally posted by: Kromlech

Looks like 2 contrails to me - one in atmospheric conditions that allow it to persist for a while, the other in ones that do not.

contrails do NOT expand out to be white clouds...the fast moving airflow lowers the temperature so humidity in air is condensed and become visible...(if you have already worked with a big enough compressor, when an air leak occurs, ice is forming....contrail is the same thing)
then, behind the plane, the air temperature goes back to the state it was before, so the contrail dissipates. (The plane itself CANNOT modify weather, air further behind the plane will come back to its initial temperature, the contrail CANNOT persists for hours....think about it, that would mean that a flying object is able to modify the weather behind it, like if the hot air going out of your car's exhaust would still be hot 5km behind you??)

also, a gap can be seen between the contrail and the plane, because the trail is formed with turbulence BEHIND the wings.

I'm almost 30 now, and as far as I remember, the trails behind the planes were short and didn't last very long.
Now we somehow have trails that stays in the sky up to 4 hours!! (condensation, you serious?????)

And we are so lucky we can even witness both at the same time, an everlasting trail, and a plane flying beside, with a trail that disappear behind the plane!

You can also do your own search and realize that there's now many "new" types of cloud. (like cloud in waves)

Contrails are classified as a cirrus cloud, and that means, not visible on radar, but, the everlasting trails are visible on doppler.

I'm working near an airport, and its very easy to see the difference between contrails and chemtrails!
I also have some pics, but anyway, its no use to post it since everyone knows what its like.
(except maybe 1 trails that was very weird, going in all sense and coming back and S-turn...we all laughed when we saw it, joking about a drunk pilot lolll)

But anyway, with all the points I made above, I can say that I strongly believe in chemtrail, sorry if I don't fit in your mold....IMO its not even a question anymore if they exist or not!!

But
what are they made of
what are they used for
how they really use them
why they use them
and
who use them.......so much questions without answer.
I cannot concieve that pilots are willingly spraying them, the secret cannot be kept that way because too many people are involved...

I've seen many theories on their purpose too. The last one I saw was about spraying nanoparticles and using a device to scan them so it would give us a nice 3d radar view of almost everything, even the inside of your house!!
(I'm not saying I believe this, but I'm always open to hear every new theory)

my conclusion, I can't prove 100% they exist, but I'm pretty sure they are!! for what purpose? who knows?

originally posted by: The Undertaker
a reply to: Aloysius the GaulThank you for this information. I am not above admitting that this is very possible. There are however other planes that do seem to be flying near or at about the same altitude that do not emit much of a trail at all. Why one and not the others?

Atmospheric conditions change - a bank of broken clouds will often form at a given level - 100 feet below that there is no cloud, 100 feet above there is no cloud either.

At high altitude it is the same - hence cirrus clouds are sometimes flat sheets with sharp delineated edges, and sometimes have quite vague edges.

If conditions are not right you get no contrails - and those conditions may only exist in a narrow band vertically and/or horizontally - so contrails form where the conditions are right, and don't where they are not.

the main criteria for contrail formation is humidity relative to ice - RHI - at high altitude it is pretty much always cold enough, so it is the humidity that changes and "decides" whether there will be contrails or not.

RHI is not a concept that most people encounter - we are familiar with humidity relative to water (RHW), but RHI isn't something we deal with on a daily basis, so most people don't even know it exists, let alone understand it - I'm not sure I know all about it by any means.

But basically 100% RHI can occur at quiet low RHW - as low as 60^ RHW can have 100% RHI - this paper is the best explaination I have found

originally posted by: sweeper84
contrails do NOT expand out to be white clouds...

why not?

the fast moving airflow lowers the temperature so humidity in air is condensed and become visible...

Air velocity has no effect on humidity.

(if you have already worked with a big enough compressor, when an air leak occurs, ice is forming....contrail is the same thing)

No it is not.
that is a drop in pressure causing cooling in accordance with the gas laws, and yeah, you can see that at sea level.

then, behind the plane, the air temperature goes back to the state it was before, so the contrail dissipates.

That is a fairly meaningless statement, and ignores that the engine exhaust is inserting more moisture into the air from combustion, plus also ice nucleation particles that will allow supersaturated ice to precipitate out of the atmosphere if the RHI is above 100%

(The plane itself CANNOT modify weather, air further behind the plane will come back to its initial temperature, the contrail CANNOT persists for hours)

Cirrus clouds are essentially the same as contrails - they are ice crystals - and they can persist for hours - your logic doesn't follow.

also, a gap can be seen between the contrail and the plane, because the trail is formed with turbulence BEHIND the wings.

the gap is the exhaust cooling enough for the ice to form. there are 2 processes taking place - firstly the hot exhaust is mixing with the cold ambient air, and also the high pressure generated inside the engine is reducing to ambient - both of these cause the moisture in the exhaust to precipitate out if humidity is already high enough.

I'm almost 30 now, and as far as I remember, the trails behind the planes were short and didn't last very long.

I'm 55 and I recall contrails spanning from horizon to horizon in the late 1960's.

Further there is ample photographic and film evidence of long lasting contrails dating back to at least WW2, and sketchy evidence before then.

Now we somehow have trails that stays in the sky up to 4 hours!! (condensation, you serious?????)

why not - that is what clouds are and they can last for hours.

Actually contrails have been times up to 12 hours and longer. Contrails are condensation PLUS freezing.

And we are so lucky we can even witness both at the same time, an everlasting trail, and a plane flying beside, with a trail that disappear behind the plane!

And why not? You can see clouds in broken skies with clear patches right beside them - because the atmospheric conditions are different enough over a distance of just a few feet.

you are using your eyes to gather evidence - but you are not actually noticing 90% of it!!

You can also do your own search and realize that there's now many "new" types of cloud. (like cloud in waves)

New names for clouds do not make the clouds new!!

Contrails are classified as a cirrus cloud, and that means, not visible on radar, but, the everlasting trails are visible on doppler.

Evidence of that please??

I'm working near an airport, and its very easy to see the difference between contrails and chemtrails!

and yet all it apparently boils down to is contrails don't persist and chemtrails do - which is easily debunked by looking at clouds!

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

everything I try to post or paste here don't work, so simply search something like "doppler radar chemtrails" and you will find out..

however you're saying that:

Atmospheric conditions change - a bank of broken clouds will often form at a given level - 100 feet below that there is no cloud, 100 feet above there is no cloud either.

At high altitude it is the same - hence cirrus clouds are sometimes flat sheets with sharp delineated edges, and sometimes have quite vague edges.

If conditions are not right you get no contrails - and those conditions may only exist in a narrow band vertically and/or horizontally - so contrails form where the conditions are right, and don't where they are not.


Only according to that, your natural contrail from horizon to horizon is impossible.
It would also means that planes can only produce contrails when they are at the same altitude than the clouds, and, only IN a cloud because outside of it the conditions aren't good enough to produce the phenomenon.

You also agree that there's a gap between the trail and the plane....but you can easily find footage of planes having 4 to 8 streams, all starting right under the wings, sometimes even starting at the tip of the wing, or from the tail (with no gap at all)

originally posted by: The Undertaker
a reply to: fleabit Is anyone even testing? A friend of mine has paid the lab fees for blood tests, she tested positive for heavy metals. Again, conjecture and heresay, but that's what she's claimed.

Aye, all the time. As in.. by multiple environmental companies in all cities, every day. I worked for a major environmental remediation company. Companies can get blasted by the EPA and heavily fined. So they test the soil and groundwater for their clients.. those results are tested by the company, and then sent to multiple labs (often 3 independent labs), for results. These are incredibly detailed. I actually posted such a report here once.. no one much cared, because it didn't support their "evil chemtrail nemesis" theory. It was a typical report.. that basically showed all amounts of -everything- in the soil. And it tested some 130 + heavy metals, I dunno how many chemicals, etc.

Most large environmental companies have their own test equipment. They also send out for testing at labs. CoC ensures a legitimate path for testing. Independent results from multiple labs ensure the integrity and accuracy of their findings. These results can then be passed on with surety to their clients, and they can provide this to the EPA, secure that they won't be fined hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars.

When I visited one of our offices, they specialized in mobile air-quality stations. Connected via satellite, they monitored air quality to the 'nth degree, 24/7. They had equipment dropped in wells, constantly testing groundwater. They performed daily samples of soil.

Don't you think if there were actually clouds of whatever being dumped on cities, it would raise major red flags across the environmental remediation industry? Of course it would. They find - all- elements present in a sample. In other words.. it's not there. They are not finding these "chemicals." It they were, it would be widespread knowledge (with a fair level of panic).

So yes, I know for a fact that they are not finding anything. These tests are done on most construction sites, sites with ongoing possible hazardous waste, etc.. constantly. And their findings always err on the excessively safe side. Or in other words, for hazardous materials in the ppm, it registers.

If you don't believe me, simply google up environmental remediation testing, for water, wastewater, groudwater, soil, etc. You will see what I am talking about. But as I said, most are not interested in the truth.. ironic for a site like this. They would rather ignore it, when the alternative is a nice juicy conspiracy theory to sink their teeth into. Any chance to villainize the government, military, private sector etc.. they don't want to pass that opportunity up!

As I said.. I posted a very detailed, official report here once upon a time. The responses? Mostly.. that it must be some super tiny / undiscovered agent that all normal intensive testing can't find. i.e... it's ghosts. When all other avenues are exhausted, rely on something that can't possibly be disproved, even if it's ridiculous.