Why do people keep bringing up voting?

People bring up voting in so many ways. Our government is corrupt because we voted for the wrong people, the correct candidates don't make it into office due to lack of voters, and so on.

My question are

1. Why do people believe voting is legitimate? As in, who we vote for is actually counted as such?

2. Why do people think "voting the other guy in" Would make such a huge difference?

The media and government controls who shows up and even has a chance on the ballot, the whole system needs to be revamped yet people insist my vote matters... No, it doesn't. The electoral college still gets to choose, popular vote can and has lost. Then every person we can choose is likely as dirty as the next..

My point is, telling me to vote is not constructive. It's ignorant at best ( on the national level)

Anyways, that being said I believe being active on a local and state level really matter a llot more because less skewing and propaganda is done than on the national level. Don't get me wrong I believe it's impotent to be involved, but on a national level, we don't have the candidates to choose from, nor does the majority even win with votes. The college does, and I'm sure they are just as corrupt as any politician. The current system will nnot allow us to vote in candidates we truly want, only the "lesser of two evils" - if you believe our vote ddoes anything at all, which I don't.

Cheers ats,

Deadlyhope

Edit: ssorry for any spelling mistakes this tablet doesn't let me correct very well.

Because its been hammered into their tiny little brains that voting is the only way to change things .. along with being brainwashed by the education system and media ..

Voting is a scam designed to give the people the illusion of freedom .. the game is rigged ..

Waste of time it will take far more than voting to rid the world of the corrupt bastards.

I used to think everyone should vote and if they didn't, they didn't really have a right to b**ch about the outcome.

In recent years, I tend to share your opinion. I don't think it makes a helluva lot of difference. I firmly believe the candidates and winners are chosen long before we even know who they are and continuing to vote just keeps making it possible for them to get by with putting whomever they wish.... in office.

If everyone stopped buying into the system and voting they would have to change the way they did things, but I highly doubt they will ever have to worry about such a thing occurring since there are too many people that still believe "their vote counts".

I don't know what the answer is, but I know that what we have been doing is not working. By that logic, we then need to figure how to fix it. We can only start fixing it when we stop buying their BS hook, line, and sinker.

"Democratic self-government does not work, according to Plato, because ordinary people have not learned how to run the ship of state. They are not familiar enough with such things as economics, military strategy, conditions in other countries, or the confusing intricacies of law and ethics. They are also not inclined to acquire such knowledge. The effort and self-discipline required for serious study is not something most people enjoy. In their ignorance they tend to vote for politicians who beguile them with appearances and nebulous talk, and they inevitably find themselves at the mercy of administrations and conditions over which they have no control because they do not understand what is happening around them. They are guided by unreliable emotions more than by careful analysis, and they are lured into adventurous wars and victimized by costly defeats that could have been entirely avoided."

- Frostburg University, Plato: The failure of Democracy

a reply to: jrflipjr


I totally agree with this quote. It sounds right on.

a reply to: jrflipjr

Good post!

Democracy DOES work though, IF you correctly translate the greek dēmos as "village community", the smallest administrative unit within a pólis.
People naturally care more for their responsibilities in matters that concern them directly.

a reply to: ColCurious

Well done! I personally was not aware of this, but I thank you for educating me.

As for democracy actually working, perhaps it's the Democratic Republic thing that isn't working for the US!

Alas...

originally posted by: jrflipjr
As for democracy actually working, perhaps it's the Democratic Republic thing that isn't working for the US!

It would absolutely work in a nation consisting of minarchist, decentralised, independent states.

In view of our recent systemic crises in the western world, I'd even argue that the concept of democracy requires such a state order to assure the people as the highest political body in any republic.

a reply to: ColCurious

Yeah, well that's NOT happening here.

Folks can avoid the voting booth, but then don't tell me the system is broken. You've literally helped break it.

The turn outs are 50% or less as often as not, and a HIGH turnout in a high profile General (Presidential) election year might approach 60%. So.. Lets see here... 2012 turn out was about 58% for the nation.. We'll skip over the fact not near everyone who can register, even bothers....but that 60% is by no means of 100% of the adult population.

58% of voters bothered to show up.

Our President won by roughly 51% of that number.

That means, of just registered voters? 28.59% actually elected the winner. It would have been absolutely no better, flipped the other direction. Apathy is what broke our system. Pure Apathy and being sold a bill of goods that our vote doesn't matter. That will insure the party hacks run the system, as no one else shows up to say anything about it.

I can't say what happens to my vote after it leaves Missouri. However, I can say I've known a city mayor, and still call a local city councilperson a friend. I've been through tactical shooting courses with a Missouri State Representative. (Statehouse, not National). They are normal people, like you and I and nothing special, however SOME egocentric state and local politicians want to make it seem different. None of them rigged or COULD have rigged their local races.

Additionally...Anyone can volunteer to be an observer on the polls. There isn't a special handshake or requirement to do so, and anyone who doubts the accuracy at that level should insure they're a part of it well before the election.

Finally... The President doesn't set our daily quality of life. He does many things, but not that. Whether I can buy a gun easily or not, or whether I pay taxes to painful levels vs. just uncomfortable ones isn't determined in Washington but at my Statehouse.

That is why voting matters. Not the House or Senate or President. They MAY well be rigged and I won't be shocked to see that proven some day. The locals are NOT, in my personal experience for where I've lived, been set ups or rigged. They are what they are and staying home means I vote your mayor for you. Comfy thought..huh?

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

? I am not sure your tone but I hope it's not argumentative as I said in my original post that local politics are a lot more important.

Had 100 percent of people voted on the national level, more than 28.5 percent would have to vote for someone entirely different than every other American for the president to be someone other than the two puppets given to us by the media. That's almost 3/4 of the newly added 42 percent of voters.. That would not have happened. Not likely.

I realize the president doesn't dictate my living standards but he does have the power to make change... To make significant and important changes based on executive orders and vetos. The president still has some power even if a lot of Congress and the senate don't actively change the USA for the better.

That being said, Congress needs term limits, accountability, etc. We need to go from the ground up to cause true change, a good man as president would help.

a reply to: deadlyhope

It's not argumentative at all. I'm frustrated sometimes at the depth of ignorance Americans have of their own political system for how it functions and ACTUALLY works, vs. the perceptions and media depiction of how it works, but that's not anyone's fault among us. Heck.. I was totally ignorant myself until 2012 and Dr. Ron Paul's people giving free training in a seminar for exactly how the Caucus system works.

The Caucus or Primary, depending on your state, is where those two for President are chosen. It's not dark back rooms full of smoke with scary guys. It's just a meeting hall or similar location, in every individual county in a state, where the public (often segregated by party, but not always) comes together to vote their little part of who their State will support for the candidacy. If enough show up? The party hacks are outnumbered by physical presence and that literally *IS* game, set and match on the spot.

Ron Paul's people saw and used this but weren't focused and organized enough. Too many played rebel without a clue to disrupt proceedings they could and should have OWNED by simple numbers. After all, the first order of business in a caucus meeting is to elect the people to run the meeting ..and that vote right there, determines A LOT for how it goes from there. THAT is where showing up..matters most. By the general national election? It's over for the national races and we all pretty much know that.


On local? You'd be shocked how many on here take the 'voting isn't worth it' to mean *ALL* voting of any kind. That includes even a purely local issue in an off year for bonds or referendums. Things you'd think people would jump at, knowing turn out to the off elections like that are often as low as 30%. Sometimes even less. Numbers can OWN at that level...if numbers would bother to show up.

So our system is broken.. Yes, it sure is. Apathy broke it and caring ...with information about where and how to most effectively care..is the only remedy short of violence. I'm a voter, not a fighter.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
...a good man as president would help.

We have had good presidents.

They were killed.

It seems to me that EVERY person who has the ability to change the world...is murdered.

Originally posted by frazzle
All four presidents who tried to end the banking monopolies (Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, Kennedy) were assassinated. Several attempts to kill Andrew Jackson, who actually did end the banking monopoly for a brief time, failed.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
It is my belief that virtually every US President that was assassinated was done so on order of the big banks. Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, JFK all had threatened the banks in some fashion or another. This goes for the attempted killing of Andrew Jackson as well.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
Throughout history anyone who has done this has been attacked and mercylessly killed just like all others that have exposed the TPTB, the money changers, and the Illuminati. Jesus, Lincoln, JFK, Garfield, and McKinley, etc. were ALL slaughtered soon after they interfered with the money changers. Why is it that EVERY person who has the ability to change the world...is murdered....coincidence? I think NOT...