REAL COST of OBAMACARE given to me by the Insurance Company!

The main problem is health care, not health insurance.

Hospitals and the services they provide are ridiculously expensive, but for a good reason. They are often forced to provide services to people without insurance and or money.

If we can reduce the price of hospital services, we can reduce health insurance costs.

One way to reduce the price of hospital services, is to make health insurance mandatory. Once hospital prices go down, so will health insurance prices.

If you don't understand that, you need help.

a reply to: WeAre0ne

You have given nothing but straw-hat arguments.

Now that I have pointed about some facts about the car insurance laws and how they did not lower insurance rates and now you are backtracking and trying to spin not only what I have posted but your previous posts.

The fact is when auto insurance became mandatory much to the delight of the auto insurance industry, we were promised lower car insurance rates, this is a fact. Now that same promise was made by essentially the same people about health insurance. Any independent thinker can see where this is going.

I get it that you are a cheerleader for the ACA, however in order to sell it to this forum you will need to back up your claims with more than a wish-washy dumbed down version of economics and health care.

a reply to: WeAre0ne
You are still trying to sell notion that poor people not paying their bills is causing our astronomical healthcare cost lie? That is the divide and conquer 101, when there is a problem find an easy culprit to blame.

If the insurance companies and hospitals are struggling so bad because poor people can't pay, then how can they still pay their CEOs multi-millions?

I often wonder if the politicians in DC even took in to account how much of a life style change the ACA was going to be on people. My dad had a saying....................They're all sharing the same brain. Wonder whose got it today? DC in a nut shell.

a reply to: jrod

You still obviously have trouble understanding the difference between health care, and health insurance. So sad.

Why don't you research the increasing hospital closures that were happening (before reform), because people without health insurance were not paying their bills, and other reasons regarding high costs.

The truth is a Drunk with Power Administration rammed this law down our throats.

All this law has accomplished is making bad situation a lot worse.

There is only one goal here. They all have said it from time to time.

...Single Payer...

a reply to: WeAre0ne

What is sad is you are unaware that the US is quickly slipping in vital healthcare statistics compared to the rest of the world. Cuba has a better live rate birth that the US for an example.

We have a fundamental problem with healthcare in the US and the health insurance industry that was built around it. The health insurance industry has huge overheads due to administrative costs, as a result of the ACA, ObamaCare these costs are projected to go up, in other words more is spent on administrative cost than actually paying for healthcare. This will not change. The fundamental problem with the healthcare/health insurance oligarchy is maximizing profits is their goal, not patient health.

With the passing of the ACA, Americans are now forced to buy a defective product, that product being health insurance.

originally posted by: WeAre0ne
a reply to: jrod

You still obviously have trouble understanding the difference between health care, and health insurance. So sad.

Why don't you research the increasing hospital closures that were happening (before reform), because people without health insurance were not paying their bills, and other reasons regarding high costs.

People who don't pay are covered under Hill-Burton. We already got free or reduced services.

a reply to: WeAre0ne

And you have the writing style, blank profile, and limited number of posts that are consistent of a shill. It is pretty obvious that you have some strong personal beliefs that the ACA is good for the American people. You have yet to make a case of how it will help the quality of healthcare, and the argument that more people insured will lower costs really holds no weight.

Since you know so much about health care costs, then can you kindly explain why a relatively simple but lifesaving procedure like an appendectomy costs about $80,000 while elective cosmetic procedures like breast implants cost less than $5,000 out of pocket?

originally posted by: WeAre0ne
a reply to: jrod
-edit-
After reading some of your topics you've posted, I have learned talking to you is a complete waste of time. You have proven to not be intelligent enough to discuss matters such as these.

You can't think of any other way to attack the posts I made, so you attack my intellect.

That is at least the forth time this thread that you have taken a shot at my intellect. That is not how you win debates and show who the smarter person is.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: WeAre0ne

And you have the writing style, blank profile, and limited number of posts that are consistent of a shill. It is pretty obvious that you have some strong personal beliefs that the ACA is good for the American people. You have yet to make a case of how it will help the quality of healthcare, and the argument that more people insured will lower costs really holds no weight.

Since you know so much about health care costs, then can you kindly explain why a relatively simple but lifesaving procedure like an appendectomy costs about $80,000 while elective cosmetic procedures like breast implants cost less than $5,000 out of pocket?

An appendectomy costs that much? Wow. Good thing I had it done in 1984.

Do you want to know how much MS has cost so far? In the last 10 years, MS has cost, get this...two power wheelchairs that each cost $8,000 a piece. And I can't get an new one until 2017. And I have to pay for the replacement battery myself, out of pocket. Hmm, so the batteries no longer work, and then to pay out of pocket for a new battery, people are stuck.

Three years ago I had a 20 day stay in a very good hospital, Bethesda North in Cincinnati. I was charged out of pocket for tv and telephone, which was...get this $3,000. They charged me for the freakin' tv in my room. But the actual cost of that hospital stay, $35,000.

So then, counting neurologist visits, costing the average $300, 6 times a year the first three years, 3 times a year the next two, and 2 times a year the following years. So for 15 minute sessions, $33,000. Then add on the required series of MRIs, tack on another $4,000 per year for 5 years.

How much am I in already?

Then the cost of the medication....

Avonex, $800 a month, 2 years.
Copaxone $13,000 a month 8 years.

Let's hope that catastrophic in the ACA doesn't mean chronic illness, because Parkinson's and ALS cost a whole lot more. But hey, I can finally buy a life insurance policy, but if I die, the government will get that instead of beneficiaries. How's that for fair?

People, don't get sick, it ain't worth it.

originally posted by: jrod

originally posted by: WeAre0ne
a reply to: jrod
-edit-
After reading some of your topics you've posted, I have learned talking to you is a complete waste of time. You have proven to not be intelligent enough to discuss matters such as these.

You can't think of any other way to attack the posts I made, so you attack my intellect.

That is at least the forth time this thread that you have taken a shot at my intellect. That is not how you win debates are show who the smarter person is.

No, not to show who the smarter person is, to show who uses their words better.

Some debates are won when the winner chooses such high-falutin' sentences that the other person is so shocked it rattles them.

But if you want a debate, go to the debate forum and challenge for a moderated debate. This here is just a post comments and ideas thread. Not every post is a debate. That's why I, or anybody else, can jump in here and discuss your points, because this isn't actual debate.

The mods of ATS provided a forum for debates, that they moderate. I encourage you to utilize that forum. Jump on over there and read some of the moderated debates.

I'm 17 and not really familar with the laws but does mean when I'm college, I will be forced to pay for insurance. Gonna be hard to afford..

a reply to: WarminIndy

That is why I have fighter under my name.

I'm not saying that my points and concerns are perfect, but I think I have brought up some legitimate concerns about the ACA becoming law under the guise of saving money and cheaper insurance, which is similar to how mandatory car insurance was sold to the public.

I'm not trying to win a debate in this thread, however when a poster keeps taking cheap shots I do get a little rattled hence all the post I've made today. It is frustrating when someone does not like an angle I take on a topic, and instead of sticking with the topic they resort to taking shots at poster's intellect. Certainly not conducive for a productive debate.

We want solutions to problems that a good debate can sometimes bring.

originally posted by: spirit_horse
I just had to bring it to ATS because I have heard of a lot of people being hurt by it.

just remember, Harry Reid says they're all liars...

it's lying lies, cooked up by the Koch brothers, to hurt Obama, lol


it's funny...when you couple the crippling premiums with the crippling deductibles, with the crippling non-compliance fine....man, oh man, who's making out on this deal?

run the math on this....if you live in a state that didn't opt to expand medicare, and you only make 15k a year.....you're spendng nearly a third of your yearly income on your insurance, and another third goes to fed taxes, so now you've got around 5k to play with over the course of a year....and you're premium is most likely more than 5K, so you truly have something you can't afford, don't need, and can't use...

what a brilliant scam this is...if any of us tried to scam people like this, we'd go to prison..

originally posted by: Helious
The fact is that the large majority of the American population has no idea what Obamacare actually is because so many of it's components have been delayed by presidential order.

This is for a specific reason, the midterm elections. When all of the caveats of Obamacare hit the general public, the already less than popular opinion of it will drop to the floor.

Don't believe me? Good, you don't have to, watch for yourself over the next 3 years. It wasn't some kind of accident that the more "bitter" parts were delayed by the White House.

Pay attention.........

we've already got one of the biggest sins in place: the individual mandate....

i know it will get worse, but it's hard to imagine....

show us your crystal ball...give us a taste of the future..

a reply to: spirit_horse

And let's not forget that Congress and their aids are exempt...All gov't employees are exempt...The Unions who showed up with the largest bribes are exempt...

What Obamacare does do is it moves many of those who were uninsured due to lack of income into Medicaid...Free or almost free healthcare while those who have to work for a living lose their healthcare because we have to pay for the new Medicaid recipients and we can not afford the new pricing...

Inmates in the prisons are now covered by Obamacare which means a few more million on Medicaid...And that's just the beginning...

originally posted by: arber123
I'm 17 and not really familar with the laws but does mean when I'm college, I will be forced to pay for insurance. Gonna be hard to afford..

No, your parents cover you until you are 26.