Sandy Hook Forensic Evidence

originally posted by: zazen
Absolutely fascinating OP. So SOMEBODY who was not Adam or Nancy Lanza left a sealed envelope addressed to the students of Sandy Hook Elementary School in Nancy's bedroom?
…
Also thanks for reiterating the striking fact that the official police report has Adam Lanza being shot in the BACK OF THE HEAD

What I find striking, in addition, is the fact that:
while we do not have the un-redacted photographs themselves …
we do have the list of what those photographs are supposed to have recorded.
So, ask yourself:
Why does it appear that the very experienced, longtime CME (Dr. Carver)—(in addition to listing Adam Lanza's DOB as 4/22/82)—forget to take autopsy photos of the entry wound, said by police to be in the lower right posterior of the skull (aiming upwards)?



Perhaps because, according to Dr. Carver, Adam died of an “intraoral GSW”

intraoral:
Located, situated, occurring, or performed within the mouth.

translation: the suspect shot himself in the roof of the mouth.

originally posted by: six67seven
So I've just recently re-immersed myself back into ATS after a brief hiatus, so forgive me if this has previously been covered in previous months, but there is a treasure-trove of documents, audio recordings, videos and reports someone has archived HERE

This thread on a different website was created in Jan. 2014 and updated on 12Mar2014, and covers that which the OP presented and more.

Inconvenient truth #60

This person has begun transcribing police tapes and provides hyperlinks to the archived materials as he/she discusses certain reports. OP, I hope you will find new materials to further facilitate your personal investigation into recovering more shocking, unreported facts in the archived link.

You know, it's interesting, I do not comment often on the internet, but I had put up all of this info some months back, on a private forum utilized by a small group of competent investigators, which existed for a brief period of time (the site not the investigators, who I would hope are still extant, lol. The site has since disappeared, which is unfortunate), and some of them also apparently post to Reddit (the source of the linked post), which is fine
I've never commented on Reddit.

These findings are at least 3 months old, and are not proprietary, nor should they be.
Meaning, you are likewise of course free to post the info far-and-wide (please do) -- and for the record, with anything I uncover and post: credit is neither needed nor wanted—just get the truth out to people.

And don't worry folks, the real show-stopping info is yet to be revealed anywhere†

The archive links will be useful to people.
I will tell you that what I personally did with my archive, and that has been critical to my research is that I first:

1. Removed by hand every last all-black redacted page. They are just clutter.
   
2. Ran all of the documents through an Optical Character Recognition Scanner, so that they became searchable text
   
   Sorry, I have not yet had time to share those (it's many Gigabytes worth of data)
   
   (†) Some of these things have taken some months of work, in my spare time (I have a life) -- and must be checked out thoroughly. Commenting online, for me, also necessitates a certain measure of privacy.
   Sorry for being so cryptic. I prefer to be reasonably certain of things beforehand is all~
   
   Cheers,
   ~C
   
   edit on 9-5-2014 by 3mperorConstantinE because: (no reason given)
   

originally posted by: 3mperorConstantinE
Adam P. Lanza:
His DNA was not found on the ..... Bushmaster, the 5.56x45's.....

Yet someone else's DNA was found all over the murder weapon. Doesn't this effectively eliminate Lanza as the killer?

originally posted by: six67seven
So I've just recently re-immersed myself back into ATS after a brief hiatus, so forgive me if this has previously been covered in previous months, but there is a treasure-trove of documents, audio recordings, videos and reports someone has archived HERE



This thread on a different website was created in Jan. 2014 and updated on 12Mar2014, and covers that which the OP presented and more.



Inconvenient truth #60



This person has begun transcribing police tapes and provides hyperlinks to the archived materials as he/she discusses certain reports. OP, I hope you will find new materials to further facilitate your personal investigation into recovering more shocking, unreported facts in the archived link.

Excellent resource you found there. I found this part interesting in that blog.

the pistol was approximately 3 feet from the suspect….the pistol had numerous hairs to the front sight area of the pistol…consistent in color with that of the shooter

So we have "numerous hairs" on the FRONT SIGHT AREA of the pistol that appear to be Adam Lanza's hairs. This seems to me that it would back up the assertion in the official report that Lanza was shot in the back of the head and NOT in the roof of the mouth as the coroner's report states...that is, unless, Lanza had a particularly hairy mouth.

originally posted by: zazen
... the assertion in the official report that Lanza was shot in the back of the head...

Does anybody have a link to that?

a reply to: starviego

drive.google.com...

page 27 of 54

a reply to: starviego





ETA: it looks like aivlas beat me to it

I hope this thread makes it to ATS Facebook. It surely has enlightened me ...I am speechless at this point!
Ty for the thread !

S+F

Nice job on the research. However, there is a TOTALLY normal explanation of why Nancy Lanza would've arrived at the coroner's office with the AED pads on her chest...

The paramedics or whom ever "pronounced" her, they have to check. Applying the AED's and hooking her up to a monitor would be the easiest way to confirm she had no electrical activity and no heart beat, even if it appeared rigor had set in. This combined with an actual physical assessment (listening/feeling for a pulse, looking/listening for respiration) is pretty common when pronouncing someone dead.

As far as your statement that HIPAA doesn't apply after death, that is not true. HIPAA protects our private health information for 50 years after death.

The HIPAA Privacy Rule protects the individually identifiable health information about a decedent for 50 years following the date of death of the individual. This period of protection for decedent health information balances the privacy interests of surviving relatives and other individuals with a relationship to the decedent, with the need for archivists, biographers, historians, and others to access old or ancient records on deceased individuals for historical purposes.

HIPAA and Death

Again, great job on the OP. I just wanted to clear these two things up.

Thanks OP .... It is a very good thread to look at this subject in a way as not to offend and to call to account those that would just love to derail this thread and get it 404ed . I cant add anything but am following and just marking it ....peace and good luck

a reply to: lovebeck
You would ordinarily be 100% correct on HIPPA (it was too late to edit the post to add the caveat: that the exemption is not “death”, per say, but “death as a result of a criminal act” and the information is released to LE)

Re: AED pads --would those be listed under Medical Intervention?
Those in the field who I have consulted have said that those would likely be removed and documented.
After all, if the noted EMT hooked her up to get an ECG read (as opposed to say, just taking a pulse) for the purposes of making a pronouncement of death, then that information would/should be listed.
…and of course, it's not.

Plus, rigor mortis is usually a pretty good sign of death to the trained eye.

Cheers,
~C.

originally posted by: 3mperorConstantinE
a reply to: lovebeck
You would ordinarily be 100% correct on HIPPA (it was too late to edit my caveat: that the exemption is not “death”, per say, but “death as a result of a criminal act” and the information is released to LE)

Re: AED pads --would those be listed under Medical Intervention?
Those in the field who I have consulted have said that those would likely be removed and documented.
After all if the noted EMT hooked her up to get an ECG (as opposed to say, a pulse) to get a read, then that information would be listed.

Whelp, I hope this "HIPPA" issue won't be cause to shut this thread down .

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere
Nope, it was originally released to the public by an authorized Law Enforcement Agency for which HIPPA provides the requisite exemptions. Those exemptions transfer onward upon legal release of the documents.

Sorry for not clarifying this within my OP

more info

a reply to: 3mperorConstantinE
A couple of comments from a medical perspective.

When a medical team arrives, an interference usually occurs, even if the person appears dead. CPR, and and AED are usually applied for a given period of time, perhaps 10-15 minutes. All areas have a proceedure they must follow, yes , even if it appears futile. Sometimes, God moves in mysterious ways, and people have been rescusitated in what appeared to be the absolute worst of circumstances.

Secondly, when it is an apparent ME case, as in a shooting, stabbing, or other assault type incident, anything done, or applied to the patient must be left on the patient, and a full recording of the rescusitation attempt, and drugs given, IV's, and AED pads must be left in the place they were applied. This also includes ET tubes, if intubation was attempted.

The body is taken by the ME, in this condition. Where I live, it is against the law to remove any of these things prior to the ME picking up the body. It is considered interference in a possible crime.

Just wanted to add my two cents, as I see a lot of people asking why the AED pads were left on the body, and why rescusitation was even attempted at all. I think you will find in most states, this is just the general rule.

I am familiar with the process because I work in a hospital in a neuro unit, and we have a lot of trauma patients, and a lot of codes. It is the same process in hospital as in the field. If a corpse is brought to the hospital for pronouncement, this same proceesure is still followed.

I have also been on scene for EMT attempted rescues after major heart attacks, and even then, the same proceedure is followed until the ME releases the corpse. Only then can tubes, etc., be removed.

Any death that occurs in a person that is not being followed by a medical doctor, that is not being treated for a chronic condition, or that has not been in hospital for 48 hours prior to death is considered a possible ME case. Even if it appears to be a heart attack or other non-violent death. Any accident is an automatic ME case, until reviewed, and released by the ME.

We usually end up calling the ME on almost every case, because of the general rule, but he accepts only a small percentage of cases that have suspicious, or causative circumstances, ie: vehicular homicides, questionable circumstances surrounding a suicide, etc.

Hope this helps answer some questions.

a reply to: Libertygal

I thank you very much for the insight which you've provided.
It's all in line with what I have been told by medical workers.

The problem is that you say “attempted resuscitation” (as did I)—however, so far as we can glean there was no documented attempt at resuscitation.

So, as you correctly pointed out, there should be either some documentation regarding the attaching of AED's or the autopsy page should've looked like, say for example, this:
(medical intervention block from a sample autopsy of a homicide victim)


So it's a bit of a conflicting picture that's been painted for us.

a reply to: 3mperorConstantinE
Well, the AED pads themselves assert there was an obvious attempt at rescusitation. Those records are in the hands of the EMT's that arrived, or, whoeved placed those pads. If it was law enforcement, and they failed to document, shame on them.

But, if it was in fact EMT's, they are required to document. If that documentation is missing, perhaps a FOIA request is in order. It necessarily should have been included in the investigation, and I am surprised, but not shocked, it was not. Yet one more question...

If indeed, it was law enforcement, which is my suspicion, then I doubt any records will be found. The only records you are likely to find is simply the AED pads left on the body. At least they knew that much, or knew they weren't reuseable at that point, and simply didn't care.

The simple reason I think it was law enforcement was, after reviewing the home photographs, we come to one of my biggest questions. Why were so many entrances kicked in? All of the doors had forced entries. The leaves and leaf material from the yard showed multiple people went up the main stairs.

I was inclined to believe all of that was due to law enforcement. It was very sloppy, at best. They totally contaminated the scene, as if they knew they would find her dead, and exactly where. They went straight up the stairs. The proof is in the photos. The leaf contamination is heavy by the door, and first stairs, and fades as it goes up.

So again, it leads me back to question one, which bothers me to this day, why kick in the basement door?




ETA - I totally agree. Someone messed up somewhere. It is a matter of finding out who. Anyone can carry an AED. If the pads were placed, and left, by LEO, chances are, the only evidence you will ever have is the pads on the body, and the conflict with the ME report, which in itself, is glaringly obvious. However, again, it wouldn't hurt to attempt an FOIA with the EMT that would have been the first responders. An ME would not use an AED to determine if a heart rhytm was present. That is absurdity. He simply pokes a meat thermometer into the liver to determine an approximate time of death after observing and checking for a pulse.

nothing has added up from the get go on this. I remember hearing the first breaking news reports about how they thought the original shooters were dressed as a priest and a nun. there was even an APB put out for the purple (or black van ...cant remember the exact color) that they were allegedly driving. I know that by even questioning the official story. that you become branded as a conspiracy nut in a tin foil hat. well this is what I have to say to all those people. how can look through everything that happened. all the inconsistencies.......no pictures. None of the victims, crime scene, or even the perpetrators body.there was no identification of the victims. not even by the family members. the state legislature passed new laws on who can view the death certificates, no credible information on the shooter. if he even existed at all. (I find it interesting that any other time there is a mass shooting were able to find out within hours what medication they may have been on. what mental illness they may have had, who the doctor was. and anything else pertinent to the perpetrator of the crime. except of course this one I'm not saying that I know what happened what I am saying is we are not getting anything that even resembles the truth of the story. all of these question marks. nothing makes sense. whatever happened to critical thinking.I don't know about any of you but if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.......I'm going to go out on a limb and say its a duck. just as I am with the Sandy Hook shooting I'm going to call it conspiracy

Just a point to ponder on this. If the reports all matched and there were no errors or conflicts, I'd be far more suspicious. Everything in order means look out there is a conspiracy and the documents / reports have been tampered with prior to release; while the errors that exist show the material is more likely to be unedited and truthful.

I know that's seldom considered in these topics, but it's realistic all the same. Human error is a given when viewed rationally and its also a given IMO that with multiple people involved, there are likely many errors, conflicts or omissions. It would be seriously unrealistic to assume otherwise.