E-Cigarettes and the FDA conspiracy to stop them.

Hello ATS,

Last month the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) released its draft regulations for electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes). The FDA has been caught cherry picking the available evidence that millions of American smokers have quit or substantially reduced their smoking thanks to e-cigarettes, blindly accepting any assertion that favors aggressive regulation that are based on a faulty understanding of the science.

FDA deeming regs:

The real science being done here:
www.mdpi.com...
blog.casaa.org...

"This is a classic case of government imposing a 'solution' and then looking for a problem," said CASAA President Julie Woessner, J.D. "The regulations do nothing to address real concerns, and instead are a slow-motion ban of the high quality e-cigarettes that have helped so many smokers quit. The rules would mostly require busy-work filings that impose huge costs with little apparent benefit."

CASAA

The FDA intends to impose a costly registration and approval process that would effectively eliminate refillable devices that are preferred by experienced users like myself. This would in effect ensure that only a few large companies like big tobaccos cig-a-like devices who can mass produce these largely infective disposable products would be able to afford the necessary filings.

Worthless and expensive cig-a-like devices.


Now you're talking! VV- mod with a Tank!!!


Research shows that higher-quality hardware and appealing flavors are important for smoking cessation. Many former smokers, including myself, report that they are tempted to go back to smoking while using the smaller devices with imitation tobacco flavoring, but we have quit smoking for good, now that there is better hardware and flavors that no longer reminded us of smoking.
antithrlies.com...
antithrlies.com...

These regulations have nothing to do with the public safety of e-cigs, public health or protecting the baby's. It has everything to do with protecting corporate interest and the smoking economy.
The smoking economy is all the money generated by smokers and all the people who depend on the smokers money. The money trail is long and twisted and everyone with their hand in the smokers pocket has a financial interest in keeping those people smoking.
Everyone from the American Heart and lung Association's, state Attorney's General to so called public health groups depends on smokers. The FDA, State economies and city budgets depend on smoking tax revenue to balance their books. This why many states, cities, counties, and other entities have taken action against the electronic cigarette, as they depend on the immense MSA (Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement) payments to stave off bankruptcy. Those payments are already starting to shrink due to falling cigarette sales caused by the growing e-cig sales.
State Bonds in jeopardy as Tobacco Cash Fades
www.nasbo.org...

Dozens of states, counties and cities issued the bonds to receive billions of dollars upfront from the 1998 settlement. But now they are seeing smaller payments than expected from the companies as tobacco sales decline in America. There is also a renewed legal battle between the states and the tobacco companies, with the companies holding back nearly $8 billion in settlement payments, pending resolution.
So far, California, Ohio and Virginia, as well as Nassau County in New York, have resorted to tapping special tobacco-bond reserves to pay their bondholders, something analysts consider a technical default because it effectively means the bondholders are being paid with their own money.

Here is an FDA propaganda piece, where is the science?..hmmm.
www.nytimes.com...

People, please look at the science, and the evidence, the regulators are not interested in your health, it has always been about the money, and will always be about the money. It is up to you to be informed and care for your health, being a none-smoker will not pay the legislators car or mortgage, smoking and dying will.
Don't be fooled by the FDA and it's lies, get involved and stop government corruption, your life could depend on it.

casaa.org...

a reply to: flyingfish

They don't want you to vape when you could be doing the real thing. And if you're doing the real thing, please go to the alley. Only marijuana smokers are allowed in here.

What's more of a disgusting habit than smoking is the government taking financial advantage of peoples' addictions for the benefit of their corporate buddies.

Or for their own benefit directly through the insanely high taxation of nicotine products. The state isn't interested in your health. The corporations aren't interested in your health.

They want your money. Period. And they will use your addiction against you to get it.

THAT is truly disgusting.

a reply to: flyingfish

They're not interested in helping people kick a deadly habit so they're all for people dying horribly. Must be the bubblegum flavor, greatest I've ever had, grape isn't all all that great as it sounds imho.

Once again,
It's all about the money, or the loss of money. Big tobacco and big pharma are starting to lose it bigtime. less profit caused by less cancer, prevented by vaping. It seems that they are very ill-informed and unwilling to educate themselves on the subject at all.

Good thing I just bought my MVP v2...lol!

The same thing is happening in the EU. Wales has already banned E-Cigs in enclosed public places and their only reason to justify this was that E-Cigs undermine the smoking ban. England is expected to follow. I wrote to my MEPs and they all responded stating that they would oppose the ban.

Like you I use the tank module as it is the closest thing to smoking. I use the USA tobacco flavour which is the only one that tastes like a real cigarette. I smoked 40-60 a day and my little vaping machine has stopped me smoking. My lungs are now clear, I don't get out of breath and my sense of smell and taste has improved.

Vaping uses the same principle that produces haze and fog at a disco. Without it all the lights and lazers would be light dots on the floor. There has never been any mention of this being dangerous to health. I agree that the tobacco companies are behind this as they are losing a lot of money.

a reply to: flyingfish

I quit smoking thanks to one of those vapor tool things...I agree with you in that they are only looking to protect the interest of large corporations. Remember corporations are people too and vapor cigs are essentially in their eyes a home invasion. They do not want people quitting because as you stated it would hurt their bottom line.
Thanks for posting and letting us know how devious and corrupt these beasts of powers are. They are so perverted in their thirst for power and money that the end of vapor unless "regulated" by the large corporations may be imminent.

a reply to: earthblaze


I like the 40/60 mix myself with cheesecake e liquid...YUM!

I agree that the tobacco companies are behind this as they are losing a lot of money

It's not just big tobacco, it's anyone who receives MSA money, including public health organizations. The less people smoke the less money they will get, it's that simple.

a reply to: flyingfish

As a smoker (roughly 1-2 pack of red marlboros a day) hoping to quit some day, I do not see e-cigarettes as of much better alternative.

Whether you smoke tobacco or cigarettes, the end result is the same - you are addicted to something and someone, whether smoking industry or e-cigarette industry, is financially benefiting from your addictions. Smoking industry might try to make these seem more dangerous for financial gains, just the same way the e-cigarette companies might cover up data about the dangers of the e-cigarettes. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. When corporate interests are at play, both sides would benefit from either positive or negative news accordingly. and have an agenda they want to push.

Even though e-cigarettes might be healthier alternative, the healthiest alternative is quitting altogether. As these have not been there for a long time, I personally do see a need for taking a good look in the possible long-term effects. There is a huge difference how different combinations of substances can affect human body. For example, how the sugar you add to your coffee affects your body differently than the sugar you get from apple due the combinations. When you eat apple, the fiber content of the apple affects the absorption of sugar, slowing it down, so the sugar spike does not happen (is low), while from the pure sugar it absorbs fast as there is nothing to slower the absorption of it and creates a large sugar spike. That is something that does not have much immediate health risks, but doing it long-term day-after-day year-after-year can cause diabetes, overweight and other serious health risks. The way nicotine absorbs, the combination of different substances all create certain effects on human body. The thing with e-cigarettes is the fact that we do not know possible long-term effects, we do not know how these particular combinations affect human body long term, as these have not been out long enough to do any research on the possible long-term effects. Short-term of course seem nice, but this does not mean it could not be very dangerous if used for longer period, who knows, maybe even more dangerous than normal cigarettes.

The current research just lags behind their popularity. What is known is that it does contain several potentially very harmful substances and that is enough of a reason to regulate the industry better. Better safe than sorry, than advertising something that could cause serious health risks long-term, as safe alternative.

a reply to: Cabin

As a smoker (roughly 1-2 pack of red marlboros a day) hoping to quit some day, I do not see e-cigarettes as of much better alternative.

I'm sorry to hear that, if you try a good device and e-liquid you will see how e-cigs are a much better alternative.

Whether you smoke tobacco or cigarettes, the end result is the same - you are addicted to something and someone, whether smoking industry or e-cigarette industry, is financially benefiting from your addictions. Smoking industry might try to make these seem more dangerous for financial gains, just the same way the e-cigarette companies might cover up data about the dangers of the e-cigarettes. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. When corporate interests are at play, both sides would benefit from either positive or negative news accordingly. and have an agenda they want to push.

There is zero evidence that the e-cigarette industry is covering up any science, in fact most people involved in the industry look forward to knew data as it comes, simply because the more we learn the more we find it's benefits.
On the flip side there is plenty proof the FDA cherry picks and out right misinterprets the data to justify their ban.

Even though e-cigarettes might be healthier alternative, the healthiest alternative is quitting altogether. As these have not been there for a long time, I personally do see a need for taking a good look in the possible long-term effects. There is a huge difference how different combinations of substances can affect human body. For example, how the sugar you add to your coffee affects your body differently than the sugar you get from apple due the combinations. When you eat apple, the fiber content of the apple affects the absorption of sugar, slowing it down, so the sugar spike does not happen (is low), while from the pure sugar it absorbs fast as there is nothing to slower the absorption of it and creates a large sugar spike. That is something that does not have much immediate health risks, but doing it long-term day-after-day year-after-year can cause diabetes, overweight and other serious health risks. The way nicotine absorbs, the combination of different substances all create certain effects on human body. The thing with e-cigarettes is the fact that we do not know possible long-term effects, we do not know how these particular combinations affect human body long term.

It is true that quitting all together is the safest bet, however there are those who can't or won't, I myself enjoy vaping and enjoy my freedom to so even more. If you read the OP there has been long term independent research and the news is good.
Here is the link again.
www.mdpi.com...
And another
Peering through the mist: systematic review of what the chemistry of contaminants in electronic cigarettes tells us about health risks
www.biomedcentral.com...

The current research just lags behind their popularity. What is known is that it does contain several potentially very harmful substances and that is enough of a reason to regulate the industry better. At the same time, it does have certain effects on human body, which are Better safe than sorry, than advertising something that could cause serious health risks, who knows, maybe even worse than tobacco, in long-term as safe alternative.

You're wrong..
Here is a list of clinical research.
casaa.org...

a reply to: flyingfish

S&F for you. I'm a vaper and I make my own e-liquids. I can honestly say I know without a doubt that there are no harmful substances in my juices. Vaping isn't dangerous at all. As for the argument that "there haven't been enough studies"; I call BS. There have been many studies and no reputable study has found anything to substantiate as harmful. If they did, the news would be all over it like flies on (edited). Instead, they say "think of the children" and "nicotine is addictive" or they have a news article posing the question or painting e-cigarettes as harmful and close it with a resounding "maybe".

Personally, I think they should regulate e-cigarettes. Regulate the hell out of them. Big tobacco makes e-cigarettes.

With that, leave me and my VAPORIZER alone. It isn't harmful or dangerous. There is no substantial nicotine in the clouds I blow. Besides, all that vapor cleans the air by capturing bacteria, allergens, and viruses and dragging them to the ground where you can't breathe them in.

Ignorance isn't bliss, it's frustrating to others.

a reply to: Deemo Diablo

Personally, I think they should regulate e-cigarettes. Regulate the hell out of them. Big tobacco makes e-cigarettes.

I know what your saying, but the current proposed regulations are designed to afford Big tobacco a monopoly and make it financially impossible for smaller vendors to compete. In affect they will control and corner the market.

a reply to: Cabin

Yeah, I read your post and I see nothing of substance just alot of hear say, peer reviewed papers citing the dangers would be nice!?

I'm going to swing at this topic from another direction. This is going to hurt alot more compaines in the medical marijuana market than tobacco.

There are alot of small upstart companies importing cheap chinese vapes, rebranding and selling on for use with dried herbs, oils and concentrates. Dabstix, Myster and openvape to name a few. If regulated properly I don't see what the issue is, it's not like they are banning them.

Regulations and permits, I was thinking about this today when I seen an icecream truck pass me by, I was thinking how terrible it must be to live in a 2nd or 3rd world country where you cannot gurantee the quality of the end product. Imagine sitting in a park in one of the respective 1st, 2nd or 3rd world countries with your children all wanting an icecream. Where would you rather buy it from? The country that has, permits, regulations and inspections or the one that lets the market regulate itself.

I'm 100% for quality control.

I have a couple questions for you guys.

First, why did you start smoking in the first place? I'm 42 and I knew when I was a little kid that smokes were very bad for me. I never could stand the smell so i never wanted to try them.

And second, do you think the e-cig will get young people addicted mostly because there is little or no negative health risks involved?

I think more kids will try these than the smelly and unhealthy tobacco smokes.

Opinions?

originally posted by: flyingfish
a reply to: Deemo Diablo

Personally, I think they should regulate e-cigarettes. Regulate the hell out of them. Big tobacco makes e-cigarettes.

I know what your saying, but the current proposed regulations are designed to afford Big tobacco a monopoly and make it financially impossible for smaller vendors to compete. In affect they will control and corner the market.

I fully understand that. I was only saying in an admittedly too-roundabout way that I wish the opposite would happen.

a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

I wanted to look cool..... (least I'm honest) Started when I was 12 stopped when my first child was born 2 years ago at the age of 24.

Not really, the novelty of a lighter and a fag seem to be more interesting to me than a battery powered glow stick. And in my honest opinion apart from the novelty factor of it being electronic it lacks that certian spark to inspire new smokers on a grand scale.

Banning them in public place goes to far but inside I do agree with.

a reply to: michaelmcclen

There are few people who are apposed to regulation, regulation is not the problem. The problem is lying about the whole industry in order to line the pockets of your backers and in the processes destroy small businesses and their vendors all across the country. All the while pretending to care about the public health..It's disgusting !

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
I have a couple questions for you guys.

First, why did you start smoking in the first place? I'm 42 and I knew when I was a little kid that smokes were very bad for me. I never could stand the smell so i never wanted to try them.

And second, do you think the e-cig will get young people addicted mostly because there is little or no negative health risks involved?

I think more kids will try these than the smelly and unhealthy tobacco smokes.

Opinions?

I started smoking when I was 23 after a bout of rough times. Both of my parents smoked when I was growing up. In the house, in the car with the windows rolled up, in the restaurant, you name it. They smoked heavily. I guess you could say after I moved out that I began to crave a cigarette, so I bought a pack, and it all went downhill from there.

No, I don't think the fact that e-cigs are less unhealthy than cigarettes would increase the risks of young people becoming addicted. However, some younger people use them as party favors to help them blow "smoke" rings and do other related tricks. They, of course, opt for the nicotine-free juices. Also, I am under the impression that vaping doesn't have the "cool" factor even with all the delicious flavors that appeals to persons of younger-than-smoking age.

originally posted by: earthblaze
Vaping uses the same principle that produces haze and fog at a disco. Without it all the lights and lazers would be light dots on the floor. There has never been any mention of this being dangerous to health. I agree that the tobacco companies are behind this as they are losing a lot of money.

Of course anything new wouldn't have a history/record. That's not to say that FDA doesn't give the green light on "medicines" that have only been tested in short time (weeks or days) prior to release because they do, and with adverse affect on our healths. I'm stating that using the basis that there's currently no negative file/study on record for a substance as new as E-Cig vapor isn't grounds to allow you to subject others to it in close proximity without their consents. Again, of course anything relatively newer will have less files/data on it.

I'm not claiming to be an expert on this device either, just pointing out the flaw in that one argument some use to support E-Cig freedom.

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71

And second, do you think the e-cig will get young people addicted mostly because there is little or no negative health risks involved?

I think more kids will try these than the smelly and unhealthy tobacco smokes.

Opinions?

I have actually noticed a trend at least in my area of teenagers smoking more. I think it has become hip again to buck the system and look cool with a cigarette hanging out of your mouth. Just my personal observation.