2 Popes together to Canonize 2 Popes. Hmm?

I'm by no means a regular in these forums and I certainly don't know Scripture as well as Believers do. Nowhere close. So I come to ask about this, hoping those who know the words best can answer a question.... First, here is the story:

VATICAN CITY— Pope Francis on Sunday will preside over a pomp-filled ceremony to declare Pope John Paul II and Pope John XXIII saints—an event that commemorates the legacies of two of the Catholic Church's most popular popes, both instrumental in shaping the current pontiff's groundbreaking reign.

I figured that sounded awfully cozy for the top rewarding the top. A little improper to my thinking, actually. Like Obama awarding Clinton the Freedom Medal or something. Just doesn't seem right.. Then I got to the second paragraph and got to wondering..

The rite in St. Peter's Square on Sunday, canonizing two of the Catholic Church's most popular popes, is likely to be a history-making event, given the strong possibility that Pope Benedict XVI, who resigned last year, will also be in attendance. That would mark the first time in the church's 2,000-year history that two popes would honor the memory of two previous ones. (See their lives in pictures and video in an interactive timeline.)

Source


Is there any significance to the above for references anywhere that matters? The 2x2 for Sainthood almost rings a bell somewhere, I think...Just too faint to place?

Hi, I wouldn't worry too much about your lack of scripture knowledge regarding this topic as there is nothing in scripture what so ever regarding popes and such. Very rarely do the vatican so things according to scripture. I believe their primary purpose over the years has been to commit massive crimes in the name of christianity, in order to demonize christians. They even burned christians (non catholics) just for owning a bible yet christians in general are blamed for the same event.

Im sure they have some esoreric meaning behind this ceremony but not sure what that could be. Hopefully someone on ATS may have some ideas.
I agree with you, there seems to be more meaning to this than meets the eye.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Believe it or not Wrabbit, you would think I am a die-hard atheist but I have been thinking about diving into scripture and hitting this conspiracies in religion forum myself. I have some questions regarding self-awareness and Atheism, and on the other side of things, I am very interested in if certain clues were left behind in pieces of scripture of a historical significance when viewed in a modern, scientific light as historically accurate pieces.

One example being Moses - did he write the Ten Commandments himself? Or did he communicate with God? Did Moses exist? These are things I find interesting. To me, any answer could be possible. I am open-minded on these issues.

Okay, I guess I Should go back to the O.P. if the Church is following prophecy, then the current Pope should be the last Pope, and I think he is going to be slain by some of his own in a public manner -

I think there is significance in Pope Benedict stepping down. The Catholic Church, according to prophecy, should be on its last legs - this Pope is supposed to guide it through a time of hardship - before he is killed and it collapses.

That's what I picked up, at least. But I take this kind of thing really seriously. I notice a lot of changes in our world today between how people interact that I think are too coincidental.

I don't get what it's all about myself. Seems so old fashioned, outdated.

Is there a significant meaning to it from the catholic perspective?
There's probably something sneaky going on.

We are witnessing events within the Vatican that really have no precedent in the last 600 years since Pope Gregory XII resigned. Certainly there are going to events where both the current Pope Francis and the Pope Emeritus Benedict wil both be in attendance.

A canonization is definitely an event where I would suspect both to attend. In fact any large ceremony/event in the Catholic Church, I would be surprised to not see the Pope Emeritus. It is odd in our lifetimes to witness this ( as well as our ancestors going back 5+ centuries) but this will be a common sight until Benedict passes away (or Francis, but that would just create a whole new chain of unprecedented events as well).

Im still surprised people still are even catholic.

As a Christian I can honnestly say Jesus would not want to be affiliated with such a cesspit of corruption, evil, cronyism , political games, lies, greed, child abuse, war mongering, idolism and silly hat wearing.

Saints? What the hell even are they? Why does a "pope" have any authority to declare people holy?

The position of pope is a joke to beguin with, seeing as the majority of popes in history have been some of the most sick and twisted little turds.

Catholic bashing aside, I dont see any relevance to scripture in relation to two popes being canonised in to sainthood.
But there sure as hell is something going on.

Just as an aside, biblically speaking, anyone who accepts Jesus and the less than victorious/blessed life of a servant, is considered a Saint.
and just as another off topic remark, Catholic Christology is very good, better than many protestant Christologies

a reply to: darkbake

There is no proof that Moses existed, except that the change between worshipping one lot of gods for a single god had to be commemorated and the exodus and moses make a good corner stone to rest it upon.

What makes me smile at this is, that like many other corrupt organisations, it has the key factor that keeps it flourishing. Its self governing and policing, with no outside ombudsman to regulate its operations and processes in order to make it responsible for its actions. If an institution judges itself - its self interest is fullyh protected. That is why it is corrupt and keeps going.

The Roman Catholic Church are contrary to the teachings in the Bible. Their popes are actually warned about in the New Testament especially when it comes to not marrying.

a reply to: darkbake

One example being Moses - did he write the Ten Commandments himself? Or did he communicate with God? Did Moses exist?

After only a hundred years, Sargon's empire became a memory. But Sargon remained as a legend. It was said that Sargon's mother had abandoned him in a cradle of reeds, that she had placed the cradle on one of Mesopotamia's great rivers and that Sargon had been found and adopted by Sumerians – a story similar to one which would emerge centuries later about a man called Moses.

Sargon the Great

It's likely that 'Moses' or perhaps Sargon the great, already had the tablets with him...they were probably a set of clay tablets, of course now widely known about and associated with the Sumerian people, who seemed to have written down almost everything on them that they considered to be important...a set of fundamental laws and rules in which to try to live by, would seem to fit the bill as important.

OP..are you thinking about the prophesy of Malachy maybe?

Don't think it's about 2 popes in particular, but more about the last pope supposedly being called Pius XIII (or Peter the Roman)...some think that the current post holder will change his name to Pius XIII after the death of Ratzinger, the previous one who resigned.

Just shows how evil the vatican is. Cannonise pedo's

originally posted by: borntowatch

and just as another off topic remark, Catholic Christology is very good,

Could have fooled me!

originally posted by: borntowatch
better than many protestant Christologies

I think the term your looking for is just as worse.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000 Not the strangest thing to go on in the RCC .I guess we get a few glimpses of the externalizations of some of their strange doctrine's but as a simple Christian I cant find or never did find anything in scripture that would lead to this practice . When considering a Biblical Saint Paul addresses his letters to the Saints/Church ..The two words are synonymous with one another .Any one in Christ is a member of The Church and are made Saints/perfect in Gods eyes by what Christ accomplished .The blood atonement for our sins .God reckons us perfect in Christ .Death has passed over us who believe it .

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Wasn't this the one that everyone could watch in 3D? And weren't the 2 Popes that are getting canonnized supposed to be there, kinda like Tu-Pac was at Coachella about a year ago in hologram form???


It's funny, because, I remember a thread that was saying there was going to be something that was going to be televised to the whole world, and not to watch it, because some sort of subliminal programing would kick in or something.

Don't watch stuff like that, don't need to put on the tin foil hat.......just yet.......

ETA: I was wrong about the holographic popes that have passed on......But it is supposed to be in 3D. Just had to correct myself, and admit I was wrong.
However, has anyone seen the Tu-Pac vid? I personally don't like that type of music, and it looked like he was actually there. The only way you could tell it was a hologram, was at the bottom of his feet.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000
I think the arrangement is logical enough from a Catholic viewpoint.
Firstly, the canonisation of a Pope, let alone two, is such a big event that they would want to give it as much fanfare as they could.
Secondly, this is the first time in history that two accepted Popes have been around at the same time, so it's obviously the first time that such an event was possible.
(Celestine V is not really an exception, because his presence was just an embarassment)

a reply to: crazyewok The word Catholic in the scriptures means universal .Although I don't go to a Church I am still a member of the whole church .The whole church is made up of past present and future believers .Church in the bible is not a building but a body of believers that come together ..

originally posted by: greavsie1971
Hi, I wouldn't worry too much about your lack of scripture knowledge regarding this topic as there is nothing in scripture what so ever regarding popes and such. Very rarely do the vatican so things according to scripture. I believe their primary purpose over the years has been to commit massive crimes in the name of christianity, in order to demonize christians. They even burned christians (non catholics) just for owning a bible yet christians in general are blamed for the same event.

Non-Catholic Christians have not done things according to scripture either and also persecuted and killed racial minorities, gays, wiccans, occultists, scientists, atheists and regular folk for the most random reasons. Christians have demonized themselves with their actions.

The mother and her harlots.

Back to the topic, I too thought there were rumors about this double canonization being some kind of esoteric ritual maybe related to JP the 2nd? Something about his tomb and live cameras 24/7?

a reply to: crazyewok

Im still surprised people still are even catholic.

Really? I found this to help a bit in showing the numbers who do find this an interesting thing to watch.



Of that about 50% of the world population of Christian Believers are Catholic.

Christians number 2.2 billion, or about one-in-three (32%) people worldwide. About half of all Christians are Catholic (50%). An estimated 37% of Christians belong to the Protestant tradition, broadly defined to include Anglicans as well as independent and nondenominational churches. The Orthodox Communion, including the Greek and Russian Orthodox, make up 12% of Christians. And people who belong to other traditions that view themselves as Christian (including Christian Scientists, Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses) make up about 1% of the global Christian population.

Source

Interesting, huh? They have another chart on that page with a breakdown by major nations for Christian % to show how it breaks down further. The US is 78% Christian, Brazil is 88%, Mexico 95% (More Catholic than not in Mexico) and 73% in the Russian Federation to hit the top nations. Religion isn't popular with everyone, but it forms the core of life for a good % of people on Earth.

It makes things like firsts in Church history an interesting thing to note anyway, I'd think.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Basically they are breaking age old rules to do this. But then the Popes were friends, were they not even Natzis together? or was that only the Saint?

Here's how the process of determining sainthood works:

The Vatican thoroughly examines the potential saint's life; if deemed a virtuous life, the person is said to be a servant of God. If the person showed heroic levels of virtue when alive, that person is considered venerable.

The real test comes after death, as the person must have performed two verified miracles. To verify miracles, a Vatican-appointed Miracle Commission — typically made up of theologians and scientific experts — looks through hundreds or even thousands of claims of miracles.

Pope John Paul II's two miracles included: posthumously healing a French nun suffering from Parkinson's disease in 2010; and healing a Costa Rican woman's brain injury.

Francis apparently changed the sainthood rules, allowing Pope John XXIII to be canonized as such with just one verified miracle, according to the National Catholic Reporter. John, in 2000, was credited with healing an Italian nun who had severe internal hemorrhages, according to NCR.

The whole process explained here
www.livescience.com...

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

It just with all the knowledge of history and all the abuse and scandals I'm just amazed more people haven't gone there own way.

Im really out the loop with main stream Christianity to be honest I try to keep my self separate from the major denominations Catholic or protestant.