Christianity, homosexuality and pig meat.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I know you probably don't have a cow, but some Pharisees had gone to such an extreme position that made people think that everything you did was wrong on the Sabbath.

I think that it was the other way around.
I don't think I got a good reaction from the congregation when I said that at church the other day during the Bible study discussion.
I think there was a factor of maintaining popularity to where they did make allowances.
The point brought out in the story was that they should have extended it out to include people too.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
no Jesus did not do away with a portion of the law.

Obviously ... HE DID.

Mark 7:14-23

Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
It in no way means Jesus allowed the eating of pork as christians have assumed.

Yes, it does. I gave the exact quote. It's very clear.

What do you care if Christians eat pork? Jesus said it was just fine. If you don't want to eat pork ... then don't. All the more bacon for the rest of us. No problem. But seriously dude, Christians understand the bible and Christianity better than you do. Once upon a time, not too long ago, you told a former Muslim here that he didn't know Islam better than hundreds of years of Islamic scholars. So therefore, I'm saying right back to you ... you don't know Christianity better than 2,000 years of Christian scholars.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
[b So therefore, I'm saying right back to you ... you don't know Christianity better than 2,000 years of Christian scholars.

Woohoo, now you just made me smile

Why is there no applause button?

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: WarminIndy

I know you probably don't have a cow, but some Pharisees had gone to such an extreme position that made people think that everything you did was wrong on the Sabbath.

I think that it was the other way around.
I don't think I got a good reaction from the congregation when I said that at church the other day during the Bible study discussion.
I think there was a factor of maintaining popularity to where they did make allowances.
The point brought out in the story was that they should have extended it out to include people too.

Hmm, I always thought it was about people.

That's why I feel that certain jobs are necessary even if one has to do their job on the Sabbath. But my pastor growing up used to tell us "Whatever day YOUR Sabbath is, just keep it holy". Meaning that you might have to work on Saturday or Sunday because of necessity in our society, but those days you are off, make that your Sabbath.

I think God understands that we need policemen, firemen, paramedics. Fast food, not so much on those days.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
no Jesus did not do away with a portion of the law.

Obviously ... HE DID.

Mark 7:14-23

Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
It in no way means Jesus allowed the eating of pork as christians have assumed.

Yes, it does. I gave the exact quote. It's very clear.

What do you care if Christians eat pork? Jesus said it was just fine. If you don't want to eat pork ... then don't. All the more bacon for the rest of us. No problem. But seriously dude, Christians understand the bible and Christianity better than you do. Once upon a time, not too long ago, you told a former Muslim here that he didn't know Islam better than hundreds of years of Islamic scholars. So therefore, I'm saying right back to you ... you don't know Christianity better than 2,000 years of Christian scholars.

mark 7 had to do with eating bread with unwashed hands, not pork. jesus said the entire law was to remain but I guess you love the unclean meat of pigs too much to accept that statement from jesus.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
mark 7 had to do with eating bread with unwashed hands, not pork. jesus said the entire law was to remain but I guess you love the unclean meat of pigs too much to accept that statement from jesus.

2,000 years of Christian scholars disagree with your muslim indoctrinated armchair attempt at Christian theology. The Christian scholars are a much more reliable source of information and discernment about Christianity than you are.

Oh ... and pork isn't 'unclean' for two reasons .... 1 - Jesus said it isn't and 2 - The ONLY reason those laws were put in place was because the uneducated peasants from 4500 years ago didn't know how to cook pork so they blamed God when they'd get sick after eating it. Now we understand germs and proper cooking.

Like I said ... if YOU want to think that eating bacon is going to send you to hell ... have at it. Don't eat bacon. All the more for the rest of the planet that knows better.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

People are focused on the things of the body such as what foods to eat or how their penises should look - whether it should be circumcised or not, because they want to boast about their body (Galatians 6:13); but those who truly serve God puts no confidence in the flesh (Philippians 3:3). It is what comes OUT of your body through your heart that makes you clean or unclean to God, not the food that you put into it, because it is from within the heart that all evil comes forth (Mark 7:18-23).

The only 'circumcision' you need is the circumcision of the heart which is led by The Spirit, not by a written 'code' so that you can receive praise from men (Romans 2:29). We are not led by the letter but by The Spirit because the letter kills but it is The Spirit that gives Life (2 Corinthians 3:6). If you try to be justified by 'law' then you have fallen from grace and are cut off from Christ because those who serve God live through The Spirit by faith and hope of righteousness which comes from working through LOVE (Galatians 5:4-6).


Jesus didn't come to abolish the law but to 'fulfill' it (Matthew 5:17), and then he said "do to others what you would have them do to you for this IS The Law and The Prophets (Matthew 7:12). We are told more than once that the fulfillment of the law happens in the keeping of this one commandment 'love thy neighbour as thyself'. (Galatians 5:14/Romans 13:10/Romans 13:8).

a reply to: FlyersFan

Well, so far in this thread we've shown three things;

1) Christianity is actually not as anti gay as people might think.

2) You can eat whatever foods you want and still avoid hell, in fact you can eat with a clean conscience.

But most importantly

3) The old Testament is there as a reference to old prophesy, Jewish history and as a fall back document to refer to.

i.e. As a Christian you have to read what Jesus said first before referring to the OT. If Jesus did not speak on something then the answer is in the OT. As others have stated, Jesus is a new covenant so what he said and did replaces parts of the old law but not all of it.

a reply to: markosity1973

Christianity is actually not as anti gay as people might think.

ahem.... where did I miss this part of the thread?

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: FlyersFan

Well, so far in this thread we've shown three things;

1) Christianity is actually not as anti gay as people might think.

2) You can eat whatever foods you want and still avoid hell, in fact you can eat with a clean conscience.

But most importantly

3) The old Testament is there as a reference to old prophesy, Jewish history and as a fall back document to refer to.

i.e. As a Christian you have to read what Jesus said first before referring to the OT. If Jesus did not speak on something then the answer is in the OT. As others have stated, Jesus is a new covenant so what he said and did replaces parts of the old law but not all of it.

Or could it be that Jesus completely fulfills all of it, because in Him, He IS the OT law made flesh?

What is the new covenant? I think you must understand that when we are talking about covenants, just exactly what does the new covenant entail?

a reply to: WarminIndy

You're the second person to say this that I've seen

the idea of Jesus being the Torah made flesh is insanity

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: markosity1973

Christianity is actually not as anti gay as people might think.

ahem.... where did I miss this part of the thread?

Read my posts re eunuchs. And the correct definition of the word.

a reply to: markosity1973

I already knew that though... how does that show "Christianity" is not anti-gay?

That only shows Jesus had no issue with them... but that's obvious to most that know his words

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

mark 7 had to do with eating bread with unwashed hands, not pork. jesus said the entire law was to remain but I guess you love the unclean meat of pigs too much to accept that statement from jesus.

LMAO

“Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.”

“Are you so dull?” he asked.

?

“Are you so dull?”

?

“so dull”

.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: WarminIndy

You're the second person to say this that I've seen

the idea of Jesus being the Torah made flesh is insanity

a reply to: WarminIndy

You should ask what was the covenant and what it wasn´t.
It wasn´t the rules of pharisees, it wasn´t the ten commandments ( that was a law ).
Covenant is an mutual agreement of two parties. Old covenant was with Israel and house of Judah. OT tells about agreement " God will be their God and Israel will be "his" people" God said he will put his laws in their minds and write them in their hearts so they would not sin.
New covenant was between Father and Son as the old covenant didn´t work ( you wonder why ? ) so that by his sacrifice he will take peoples sins.

A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: WarminIndy

You're the second person to say this that I've seen

the idea of Jesus being the Torah made flesh is insanity

I think you have too narrow a view here.

"And God said let there be light". Shall we start there? Unfortunately this is where people stop.

The first law of God was light. Is there a physical law that determines light? You believe that light is a natural property of a natural law, to you there is nothing supernatural about light. However, the concept of light now has taken a Gnostic aspect, that one who is "enlightened" has received light to understand. So light as a law is manifested naturally and intellectually.

Take it from here and we will discover if I meant Torah or laws in the OT.

a reply to: Akragon

Splitting hairs are we?

I think you'll find loads of non Christians and Atheists are anti gay too. I and another member have presented information that debunks the belief that God is on your side when screaming 'death to fags' and the like in the manner that unenlightened fools like our mates at Westboro like to do.

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: WarminIndy

You should ask what was the covenant and what it wasn´t.
It wasn´t the rules of pharisees, it wasn´t the ten commandments ( that was a law ).
Covenant is an mutual agreement of two parties. Old covenant was with Israel and house of Judah. OT tells about agreement " God will be their God and Israel will be "his" people" God said he will put his laws in their minds and write them in their hearts so they would not sin.
New covenant was between Father and Son as the old covenant didn´t work ( you wonder why ? ) so that by his sacrifice he will take peoples sins.

A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13

Between God and His Son, or between God and us?

Jesus was the sacrifice. Therefore Jesus can't be the beneficiary of the new covenant.

"You are a new creature in Christ, behold I make all things new, the former things are passed away", is the old covenant passed away for a person who was never under the old covenant? Were you under the old covenant or did you have a former life that was covered under a curse of death and decay?

When Christ died, was it for salvation of the law or the salvation of people?

a reply to: Akragon

the idea of Jesus being the Torah made flesh is insanity

That comes from so-called Messianic Judaism, their attempt to create a non-christian explanation for Jesus.